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Old 05-05-2022, 08:55 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post)
I completely agree with everything you've said here. Joey wasn't fleshed out as a character, and she was defined by her romantic relationships and nothing else. In the end, the show came down to which guy she would be with, and like I said in my previous post, she became nothing more than a "prize" to be "won" by Dawson or Pacey. Like you said, talk about misogynistic!
PRECISELY.
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Old 05-05-2022, 08:57 AM
  #242
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Yes she did! She stopped watching in Season Three!
Teresa is so smart.

When she stopped watching what reason did she give and were you considering stopping as well or in too deep (like I was too!)?

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That's so true!


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Oh I know! Jen was treated so horribly on the show from the beginning to the end.
Indeed. Even the NYC stereotype was annoying. She was depicted as "worldly" but what that basically meant was getting around.

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That's so true, because as much as the show idolized Joey, they also reduced her to being the "prize" that either Dawson or Pacey would "win," which is incredibly misogynistic.
100%.
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Old 05-05-2022, 09:49 AM
  #243
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Originally Posted by jediwands (View Post)
Teresa is so smart.

When she stopped watching what reason did she give and were you considering stopping as well or in too deep (like I was too!)?
She stopped watching because she couldn't stand Katie Holmes mugging for the camera.

I considered stopping watching but since I was moderating the Dawson's Creek board here at the time, I kept watching.

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Indeed. Even the NYC stereotype was annoying. She was depicted as "worldly" but what that basically meant was getting around.
That's so true. Like any girl from New York is a tramp.

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100%.
What's sad is that many people that were involved with this show should have known better and done justice to all of these characters, but they didn't.
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Old 05-05-2022, 11:59 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post)
She stopped watching because she couldn't stand Katie Holmes mugging for the camera.
Jerry, my mom immediately noticed this when she would walk in on me watching an episode around S3 and on. She hated it. She mentioned she didn't like her acting style but also said she thought Katie was playing Joey completely different compared to her S1 portrayal and didn't like it.

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I considered stopping watching but since I was moderating the Dawson's Creek board here at the time, I kept watching.
It makes sense. You had to. I felt compelled to keep watching just because I wanted a wrong corrected.

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That's so true. Like any girl from New York is a tramp.
Exactly. Instead of showing a girl from New York in a good way... confident, smart, interesting... Jen had to be depicted in the worst way possible. Having her very own grandmother go there as well was as bad as it gets.

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What's sad is that many people that were involved with this show should have known better and done justice to all of these characters, but they didn't.
Precisely. We know Berlanti knew better. See Everwood. Who knows why Dawson's Creek was so careless.
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Old 05-05-2022, 03:36 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by jediwands (View Post)
Jerry, my mom immediately noticed this when she would walk in on me watching an episode around S3 and on. She hated it. She mentioned she didn't like her acting style but also said she thought Katie was playing Joey completely different compared to her S1 portrayal and didn't like it.
Your mom was very perceptive. I'll always think that the attention that Katie Holmes/Joey got on the show went to her head and she just started to rely on cutesy mannerisms and mugging for the camera, especially when she was with Pacey, while in Season One (which was filmed in its entirety before the first episode aired) she was an unknown (along with the rest of the cast) and she had better material to work with, so she actually acted in that season and some of her performances showed potential, but that potential was wasted once she became the IT Girl of the show.

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It makes sense. You had to. I felt compelled to keep watching just because I wanted a wrong corrected.
I know exactly what you mean, but I'm glad that we both hung in there as we got to meet each other and I was able to tell you about Everwood.

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Exactly. Instead of showing a girl from New York in a good way... confident, smart, interesting... Jen had to be depicted in the worst way possible. Having her very own grandmother go there as well was as bad as it gets.
It was really a disgrace how Jen was treated by everyone, and most epsecially her grandmother. That later changed thankfully, but I also think that they had Grams change too much. It was nice to see her realize what a special person Jen was and I loved when she defended her to her daughter (Jen's mother) but some of the other changes she went through were completely unrealistic.

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Precisely. We know Berlanti knew better. See Everwood. Who knows why Dawson's Creek was so careless.
I think it was because everyone involved never expected the show to become a hit and get renewed, so Williamson only put his heart and soul into Season One, and after that, he largely left the show in Paul Stupin's incompetent hands and then he left the show entirely in Season Two.
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Old 05-05-2022, 07:53 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post)
Your mom was very perceptive. I'll always think that the attention that Katie Holmes/Joey got on the show went to her head and she just started to rely on cutesy mannerisms and mugging for the camera, especially when she was with Pacey, while in Season One (which was filmed in its entirety before the first episode aired) she was an unknown (along with the rest of the cast) and she had better material to work with, so she actually acted in that season and some of her performances showed potential, but that potential was wasted once she became the IT Girl of the show.


That is so true, Jerry. You can see such a change in her acting and personality on the screen. She looked very hard working, grounded, and professional in S1. Parts of S2 and certainly, S3 and on, she turned into a completely different person/character on the screen. She almost looked like she was modeling for the camera with an energy of it being her show and not Dawson/James as the the lead. It ended up burning her in the long run because I don't think she cared much about polishing her acting skills during and after Dawson's Creek. She accepted the IT girl status, posed like a model for the camera throughout most of Dawson's Creek. Then it became life imitating art... while Joey was defined by her relationship status it seems Katie also cared about who she was with romantically and preferably as famous of a guy as possible.

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I know exactly what you mean, but I'm glad that we both hung in there as we got to meet each other and I was able to tell you about Everwood.
Agreed.

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It was really a disgrace how Jen was treated by everyone, and most epsecially her grandmother. That later changed thankfully, but I also think that they had Grams change too much. It was nice to see her realize what a special person Jen was and I loved when she defended her to her daughter (Jen's mother) but some of the other changes she went through were completely unrealistic.
You make such a great point. Talk about a complete 180 for Grams. How completely unrealistic to see that weird transformation. Grams becoming less rigid and strict is one thing, so maybe going more to the center made sense. But going so far on the other side to where she was unrecognizable was utterly ridiculous.

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I think it was because everyone involved never expected the show to become a hit and get renewed, so Williamson only put his heart and soul into Season One, and after that, he largely left the show in Paul Stupin's incompetent hands and then he left the show entirely in Season Two.
Well said. I really do believe the series ending after one season only would have been so much better. Or if we want to make sure Pacey and Andie get in there, two seasons would have been fabulous. Anything after S2 was terrible.
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Old 05-12-2022, 02:25 PM
  #247
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The link will take you to a site....who was better; Pacey and Andie, or Pacey and Joey; What is interesting is the posts are only one year old.

You're going to find pro P/A and pro P/J posts. P/A has a lot more support then I'm used to seeing online. Several posts liked P/A until the cheating scandal. One poster said the cheating was improbable and due to poor writing. [The view most of us have]

https://www.reddit.com/r/dawsonscree...y_and_joey_or/
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Old 05-12-2022, 07:03 PM
  #248
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Thanks for the link Tony. It was hard to get past the "Pacey and Joey had so much chemistry" comments.
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Old 05-13-2022, 09:58 AM
  #249
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Originally Posted by TL22 (View Post)
The link will take you to a site....who was better; Pacey and Andie, or Pacey and Joey; What is interesting is the posts are only one year old.

You're going to find pro P/A and pro P/J posts. P/A has a lot more support then I'm used to seeing online. Several posts liked P/A until the cheating scandal. One poster said the cheating was improbable and due to poor writing. [The view most of us have]

https://www.reddit.com/r/dawsonscree...y_and_joey_or/
Thank you!
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Old 05-13-2022, 09:59 AM
  #250
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Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post)
Thanks for the link Tony. It was hard to get past the "Pacey and Joey had so much chemistry" comments.
Usually people on Reddit (for the most part, especially on health and spiritual forums) are fairly perceptive.
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Old 05-16-2022, 02:33 PM
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Thanks for the link Tony. It was hard to get past the "Pacey and Joey had so much chemistry" comments.
I never really saw any chemistry between Pacey and Joey. How could you since she was always bitchin at him.

The P/J'er's think there must be chemistry between them because they dated. But they broke up!!!!! I guess the chemistry melted away.
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Old 05-16-2022, 04:10 PM
  #252
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I used to call Pacey and Joey's so-called chemistry the Pacey and Joey lust fest.
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The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it - and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. - John F. Kennedy

There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why - I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert F. Kennedy
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Old 05-16-2022, 06:43 PM
  #253
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I’ve never felt the chemistry between them. I just never did. It’s not because I hate PJ either. Before I knew the show was losing its mind and going with PJ romantically and they were just friends at the beginning of S3 I felt their scenes were uninteresting. They were just air to me.
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Old Today, 10:41 AM
  #254
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I am not really sure what to make of this besides KW having no backbone https://ew.com/tv/dawsons-creek-josh...ey-with-pacey/
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Old Today, 11:30 AM
  #255
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I am not really sure what to make of this besides KW having no backbone https://ew.com/tv/dawsons-creek-josh...ey-with-pacey/
So even the actor who played Pacey only cared about "winning," just like the P/Jers. Thanks Eric.
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The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it - and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. - John F. Kennedy

There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why - I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert F. Kennedy
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