Aquillea

Ooops- Lots of posts popped up while I was thinking. My 'nope' goes back to Wilpin's:
"I don't know if that tells you anything about what audience those posters are..."

This is the only Everwood forum I go to so I don't know the age breakdowns there.

I also wanted to add a comment about how much I loved Andy's line -roughly: "I don't think of you as a woman... and... and I don't want to." {ROTFL}

I'm a big fan of the concept that "less is more". One of my alltime favorite movie scenes is from Witness, when Harrison Ford's expression changes radically while he's on the phone. Then he proceeds to the Amish boy who is pointing at the killer's picture. Then he covers the boy's hand to hide the pointing finger. Not a word was uttered yet so much information was conveyed.

Andy did have a few words, above, but not a lot considering what I took from it. The more obvious one first - I don't want to [think of you as a woman]. Shippers had to have loved that. Why doesn't Andy want to think of Nina as a woman? I'm thinkin' - Julia. He doesn't want to 'betray' Julia and he doesn't want to ever hurt again the way he was hurt by losing Julia.

{PS- That's why I kinda like that Andy/Linda always felt a little off. I think subconsciously Andy 'knew' it too, so Linda was 'safe' (i.e. transitional/rebound woman). She was never going to be what Julia had been to him. I think Nina, however, could be.}

The first part of the quote was even more interesting to me. I've noted that Andy is a few years older than me. Importantly, I think Nina is a few years younger. In a reflex response, Andy was actually trying to say the appropriate thing. I think both the gender gap AND the generation gap got in the way. My impression is that the mainstream message of feminism has changed over the years. When society probably had its greatest influence on Andy, the message was that women were just as smart, just as ambitious, just as tough as men. The only meaningful difference is in the reproductive organs. Other than that, men and women are the same. I think that mainstream feminism today is more balanced - recognizing that men and women are the same in some ways but different in others. And those differences should not be overlooked or trivialized, they should be celebrated.

The feminism of Nina's formative youth thinks being recognized as a woman is central to being accepted for who she is. The feminism of Andy's formative youth taught him it was demeaning to think of women as, well, women. He should think of women as 'people', as 'peers', as 'colleagues', as 'neighbors', as 'friends'... etc. A proper thinking, educated, liberal man in the 70's was a gender-neutral thinking man. In telling Nina he doesn't think of her as a woman, Andy was trying to reassure her that he doesn't introduce gender-bias into how he values their interactions.

You can't teach an old dog Girl-Power {snicker}.
Aquillea

jediwands

I'm also not a huge fan of PDA. I always slugged my boyfriend whenever he was pro PDA in the hallways of our high school. He never won that battle. But regarding E/A and their scene.. I loved it because of the reasoning as to why it took place. They just made up from a bad fight and I just couldn't see them shaking hands and leaving it at that. They missed each other, made up, and thus, the PDA. Worked for me.

Oh, I know! I loved that flirty smack she gave him. Hee. I also wonder why she did it. I think it had to do with the fact that Ephram knew that Amy would have a difficult time getting Hannah to open up and show her the journals though.

Jerry D

Welcome Derek. I agree that Hannah is someowhat of a "disposable" character, and The WB is infamous for introducing such characters, so if she doesn't work out, or if she's just there to serve a specific purpose, they could easily write her off the show, like they did Laynie.

Jerry D

I agree with your assessment of Andy's feelings towards Nina insofar as he thinks of her as a friend and equal, Aquillea, but I don't agree that he doesn't want to 'betray' Julia and he doesn't want to ever hurt again the way he was hurt by losing Julia, because he dated Linda last year and he slept with her, and he ended up losing her, although obviously his love for Linda, if you even want to call it love (and I don't) couldn't compare to the love that he had for Julia.

Aquillea

See my addendum to my post above regarding Linda.

Jerry D

Ah, good addendum, and I agree. Nina could definitely be the real thing, and subconsciously, I think Andy knows it.

Sugz

Funny thing is IM totally pro PDA, when Im in the mood Im all over my man and there are even fictional couples that I thought had the chemistry to pull off those PDA moment (Pacey and Joey anyone?) but I dont have the desire to see it with Amy and Ephram whatsoever.

smoothaise

I thought this was a good episode. very funny and heartwarming.

amy needs to stop obsessing about hannah's journals.
even if i trusted her, i wouldn't let her read em. that was just ... i dont know.

and the e/a plot was very weak, i mean its common, but it was weak and forced.

next weeks looks great. cannot wait to see ann heche on everwood. interesting casting choice.

btw: scott wolf is slowly growing on me, but they haven't really utuilized his character yet.

and i 100% agreed and symapthized with bright, seeing as though i was in the same situation at 18. so, it was very nostalgiac.

The Crow

Overall, I don't know if I liked this episode or not. I personally thought that Delia's discovery of the 'foot massager' was a bit of a rehash of the Penthouse storyline, and really only served to facillitate Andy and Nina's fight and subsequent makeup/Birds and Bees talk.

I liked the Ephram/Hannah. I love how Ephram is just content to be around Hannah and let her act how she wants, whether he finds it weird or not. I think that overbearing Amy needs to take a page out of his book and stop trying to press her idea of what a friendship has to be on Hannah. I actually wanted to throw things at the television when she told Hannah that they were just 'acquaintance friends', basically because Hannah wouldn't show Amy her journals...something she was clearly not comfortable doing. The look on Hannah's face just showed how crestfallen that she was. She seems to be trying hard to jump through all of Amy's hoops, and Amy needs to take a step back and realize that she needs to just accept how Hannah is and not try to make her into the popular girl that she wants her to be.

Ephram/Amy was good as always. Every one of their scenes together make my teeth hurt because it is so sweet. I am also in the camp of wanting to know what was in the letter and the story, but I realize why the writers didn't tell us: so all the fanfic writers can make up their own love letters (hehe). As for the lack of groping, making out, and overall PDA that has been mentioned earlier, I find it refreshing that they can show a couple that is obviously in love, but doesn't need to convey that by shoving their tongues down one another's throats. They showed Ephram and Madison making out all the time, but we all know how that ended up. Give me the sweet pecks on the lips snuggling on the couch any day.

As for the sex thing, I think that Amy will probably be the 'agressor' in that arena. Ephram has already been burned in that area, so I think that he may be reluctant to introduce that facet of life into what he clearly considers to be a special relationship. His relationship with Madison went south quickly after they took that next step, and I think that it may take some time before Ephram is ready to risk it again. Then again, it is Amy. These two obviously have a deeper bond than Madison and he ever did. Maybe the fact that he feels so comfortable with will overwhelm the natural trepidation he feels.

ergo3

If I knew how to do that little quote thing I would, but sadly I don't. *help*

So here is me fake verison.

"The look on Hannah's face just showed how crestfallen that she was. She seems to be trying hard to jump through all of Amy's hoops, and Amy needs to take a step back and realize that she needs to just accept how Hannah is and not try to make her into the popular girl that she wants her to be."-The Crow

I agree with that statement completely. I think that Amy needs to accept Hannah for who she is. On the other hand, I can understand Amy because she seems like one of those people who are just naturally popular without even trying. She fell from grace last year, but is suddenly back on top, and all she had to do was be herself. I believe Amy will setlle down now after the whole thing at the end of the episode with the story. Sidenote: I WANT TO READ THAT STORY. End Sidenote. What Amy said to Hannah was indeed extremely harsh, and you could tell that Hannah truly does like Amy, but from Amy's point of view Hannah isn't putting anything back into the friendship. It'll take Amy a while to realize who Hannah is and what her form of giving is. Amy is open. Hannah is closed. It's a simple as that. Amy is stubborn though, so we can only guess as to where this will go.

Derek.

jediwands

Hee. Love how you put that. ITA.

Me too.

Great point.

Yeah, it is refreshing to see the difference between the two relationships. Very true. One was more fueled by physical attraction as the driving force and the other one, the one that we are led to believe is "the one" for Ephram, is definitely about more than than just the physical part.

Yeah, me too.

Great point. I agree.

As for how I feel about the Amy/Hannah friendship saga.. I am on the fence about it. While I think that Amy needs to back off a bit, I also think she has great points too. Both of them are kinda right and wrong on things if you really think about it. But I do know that Amy and Hannah are SO different. Amy is the beautiful girl that could have guys falling at her feet if that is what she desired, huge popularity, talents, etc.. Hannah is the loner geek chic (which, BTW, I think is cool as hell) who is introverted to the max. The usual saying is opposites attract.. Look and E/A. These two have fallen in love and could not be more different. So, maybe in the friendship department, that will also happen for A/H. I guess only time will tell.

Jerry D

Great commentary Alan. I completely agree that Amy needs to back off and let Hannah be herself, and I think she was wrong to tell Hannah that they were only “acquaintance friends” because Hannah wouldn’t let her read her journals. You can’t instantly become “best friends” with someone, and Hannah is a shy and withdrawn person, and Amy needs to understand that. This was one of those times when Amy really shows that she’s Harold’s daughter , because her attempt to make Hannah popular paralleled Harold’s attempt to make Bright interview for a job that he thought would have more potential than the job Bright got on his own. I feel that both Amy and Harold meant well in this episode, and their intentions were good, but they both were overbearing and they ended up hurting the people they were trying to help.

Karbear3916

Ok I liked this episode, it was very funny. I agree Amy started to get on my nerves and i was like just back off Hannah let her do her own thing when she wants to. I mean i know Amy was just helping her get into activities and to make new friends but i think she's trying to hard. The thing with delia and her friend finding the sex toy I was laughing so hard. I was like a foot massager? But overall it wasnt a bad ep and is Scott Wolf's character getting on anyone else's nerves but me? I mean he's funny but he's just getting annoying now.

jediwands

YES, he is working my last nerve. Some of his lines are funny but overall, he is starting to bother me.. Then again, I guess that's what the character is intended to do. So, Scott is probably doing a job well done.

I forgot to mention something.. I LOVE how Ephram is so laid back and just accepts Hannah. I really like how natural he is with her. He should tell his girlfriend to chill out a bit. Seriously though, you gotta love Ephram.

Raja

1) Dr Brown could've solved his problem with Delia and the "foot massager" like this.

"Delia. Remember that Harry Potter vibrating broomstick we got you? Well. The foot massager is just like that. Just it's smaller and made for adults."

2) Awwwww. Amy got a little puppy dog. Unfortunately it wasn't quite obedient enough so it had to be kicked to the curb.

But seriously. Amy gets a lot of points for trying to be helpful. But she also needs to give Hannah a little space to do things on her own terms. And that brush-off because she wasn't ready to show people her writing was more than a little cold.

Plus if Hannah is still having problem meeting people Amy might be able to make her happier in the short term by giving Hannah her own "foot massager."

3) Amy complained about her best friend moving away. You mean the one she blew off because she told you that your druggie boyfriend was in fact a druggie? The one she hasn't talked to for months while hanging out with other girls she barely even likes? The one who probably left town because her only friend ditched her while she was facing massive family problems with Colin's death?

4) Nina explains to Dr. Brown she hasn't had sex in a long time and it's making her feel uncomfortable. Ummmm Andy.... can't you take a hint? She does help you a lot watching the kids and all, the least you could do is block out a good twenty minutes every once in awhile to 'help" Nina out.

5) I liked the tension between Harold and Bright. How he's trying to figure out things on his own and the parental units are trying their best to help but aren't quite sure how they can without stifling him and pushing him away.

6) The Scott Wolf experiment isn't working. I think he's meant to show Andy what he looked like and how he often came off as to Harold when he first moved to town. Unfortunately it just isnt very interesting and the character annoys me.