[everwoodfan52]

With respect to this being the Everwood board, instead of creating a thread specific to one show it could be a revolving thread for different shows we as a group decide to Binge Watch together.

First up, One Tree Hill.

Thanks, Patricia!

Rules

1. This is an independent rewatch thread. Watch an episode and post about it if you'd like. If you want to comment instead of actively watching, you can do that, too.

2. No attacking or being rude to thoughts and opinions. This board has always had a peaceful tone and it will remain that way.

Episode List


Season 1 (2003)
1x01 Pilot
1x02 The Places You Have Come to Fear the Most
1x03 Are You True?
1x04 Crash Into You
1x05 All That You Can't Leave Behind
1x06 Every Night Is Another Story
1x07 Life in a Glass House
1x08 The Search for Something More
1x09 With Arms Outstretched
1x10 You Gotta Go There to Come Back
1x11 The Living Years
1x12 Crash Course in Polite Conversations
1x13 Hanging by a Moment
1x14 I Shall Believe
1x15 Suddenly Everything Has Changed
1x16 The First Cut Is the Deepest
1x17 Spirit in the Night
1x18 To Wish Impossible Things
1x19 How Can You Be Sure?
1x20 What Is and What Should Never Be
1x21 The Leaving Song
1x22 The Games That Play Us

Season 2 (2004)
2x01 The Desperate Kingdom of Love
2x02 Truth Doesn't Make a Noise
2x03 Near Wild Heaven
2x04 You Can't Always Get What You Want
2x05 I Will Dare
2x06 We Might as Well Be Strangers
2x07 Let the Reigns Go Loose
2x08 Truth, Bitter Truth
2x09 The Trick Is to Keep Breathing
2x10 Don't Take Me for Granted
2x11 The Heart Brings You Back
2x12 Between Order and Randomness
2x13 The Hero Dies in This One
2x14 The Quiet Things That No One Ever Knows
2x15 Unopened Letter to the World
2x16 Somewhere a Clock Is Ticking
2x17 Something I Can Never Have
2x18 The Lonesome Road
2x19 I'm Wide Awake, It's Morning
2x20 Lifetime Piling Up
2x21 What Could Have Been
2x22 Episode 22 and 23

Season 3 (2005)
3x01 Like You Like an Arsonist
3x02 From the Edge of the Deep Green Sea
3x03 First Day on a Brand New Planet
3x04 An Attempt to Tip the Scales
3x05 A Multitude of Casualties
3x06 Locked Hearts and Hand Grenades
3x07 Champagne for My Real Friends, Real Pain for My Sham Friends
3x08 The Worst Day Since Yesterday
3x09 How a Resurrection Really Feels
3x10 Brave New World
3x11 Return of the Future
3x12 I've Got Dreams to Remember
3x13 The Wind That Blew My Heart Away
3x14 All Tomorrow's Parties
3x15 Just Watch the Fireworks
3x16 With Tired Eyes, Tired Minds, Tired Souls, We Slept
3x17 Who Will Survive, and What Will Be Left of Them
3x18 When It Isn't Like It Should Be
3x19 I Slept with Someone in Fall Out Boy and All I Got Was This Stupid Song Written About Me
3x20 Everyday Is a Sunday Evening
3x21 Over the Hills and Far Away
3x22 The Show Must Go On

Season 4 (2006)
4x01 The Same Deep Water as You
4x02 Things I Forgot at Birth
4x03 Good News for People Who Love Bad News
4x04 Can't Stop This Thing We've Started
4x05 I Love You But I've Chosen Darkness
4x06 Where Did You Sleep Last Night?
4x07 All These Things That I've Done
4x08 Nothing Left to Say But Goodbye
4x09 Some You Give Away
4x10 Songs to Love and Die By
4x11 Everything in Its Right Place
4x12 Resolve
4x13 Pictures of You
4x14 Sad Songs for Dirty Lovers
4x15 Prom Night at Hater High
4x16 You Call It Madness, But I Call It Love
4x17 It Gets Worse at Night
4x18 The Runaway Found
4x19 Ashes of Dreams You Let Die
4x20 The Birth and Death of the Day
4x21 All of a Sudden I Miss Everyone

Season 5 (2008)
5x01 Four Years, Six Months, Two Days
5x02 Racing Like a Pro
5x03 My Way Home Is Through You
5x04 Its Alright Ma (I`m Only Bleeding)
5x05 I Forgot to Remember to Forget
5x06 Don't Dream It's Over
5x07 In da Club
5x08 Please, Please, Please Let Me Get What I Want
5x09 For Tonight You're Only Here to Know
5x10 Running to Stand Still
5x11 You're Gonna Need Someone on Your Side
5x12 Hundred
5x13 Echoes, Silence, Patience and Grace
5x14 What Do You Go Home To?
5x15 Life Is Short
5x16 Cryin' Won't Help You Now
5x17 Hate Is Safer Than Love
5x18 What Comes After the Blues

Season 6 (2008)
6x01 Touch Me I'm Going to Scream: Part I
6x02 One Million Billionth of a Millisecond on a Sunday Morning
6x03 Get Cape. Wear Cape. Fly.
6x04 Bridge Over Troubled Water
6x05 You've Dug Your Own Grave, Now Lie in It
6x06 Choosing My Own Way of Life
6x07 Messin' with the Kid
6x08 Our Life Is Not a Movie or Maybe
6x09 Sympathy for the Devil
6x10 Even Fairy Tale Characters Would Be Jealous
6x11 We Three (My Echo, My Shadow and Me)
6x12 You Have to Be Joking (Autopsy of the Devil`s Brain)
6x13 Things a Mamma Don't Know
6x14 A Hand to Take Hold of the Scene
6x15 We Change, We Wait
6x16 Screenwriter's Blues
6x17 You and Me and the Bottle Makes 3 Tonight
6x18 Searching for a Former Clarity
6x19 Letting Go
6x20 I Would for You
6x21 A Kiss to Build a Dream On
6x22 Show Me How to Live
6x23 Forever and Almost Always
6x24 Remember Me as a Time of Day

Season 7 (2009)
7x01 4:30 AM (Apparently They Were Travelling Abroad)
7x02 What Are You Willing to Lose
7x03 Hold My Hand as I'm Lowered
7x04 Believe Me, I'm Lying
7x05 Your Cheatin' Heart
7x06 Deep Ocean Vast Sea
7x07 I and Love and You
7x08 I Just Died in Your Arms Tonight
7x09 Now You Lift Your Eyes to the Sun
7x10 You Are a Runner, and I Am My Father's Son
7x11 You Know I Love You, Don't You
7x12 Some Roads Lead Nowhere
7x13 Weeks Go by Like Days
7x14 Family Affair
7x15 Don't You Forget About Me
7x16 My Attendance Is Bad But My Intentions Are Good
7x17 At the Bottom of Everything
7x18 The Last Day of Our Acquaintance
7x19 Every Picture Tells a Story
7x20 Learning to Fail
7x21 What's in the Ground Belongs to You
7x22 Almost Everything I Wish I'd Said the Last Time I Saw You

Season 8 (2010)
8x01 Asleep at Heaven's Gate
8x02 I Can't See You, But I Know You're There
8x03 The Space in Between
8x04 We All Fall Down
8x05 Nobody Taught Us to Quit
8x06 Not Afraid
8x07 Luck Be a Lady
8x08 Mouthful of Diamonds
8x09 Between Raising Hell and Amazing Grace
8x10 Lists, Plans
8x11 Episode #8.11
8x12 The Drinks We Drank Last Night
8x13 The Other Half of Me
8x14 Holding Out for a Hero
8x15 Valentine's Day Is Over
8x16 I Think I'm Gonna Like It Here
8x17 The Smoker You Drink, the Player You Get
8x18 Quiet Little Voices
8x19 Where Not to Look for Freedom
8x20 The Man Who Sailed Around His Soul
8x21 Flightless Bird, American Mouth
8x22 This Is My House, This Is My Home

Season 9 (2012)
9x01 Know This, We've Noticed
9x02 In the Room Where You Sleep
9x03 Love the Way You Lie
9x04 Don't You Want to Share the Guilt?
9x05 The Killing Moon
9x06 Catastrophe and the Cure
9x07 Last Known Surroundings
9x08 A Rush of Blood to the Head
9x09 Every Breath Is a Bomb
9x10 Hardcore Will Never Die, But You Will
9x11 Danny Boy
9x12 Anyone Who Had a Heart
9x13 One Tree Hill

[ds44]

TFTnt

[everwoodfan52]

From the last thread......

Originally Posted by Mich1111 (View Post) 3.16 Just watched it. I've never watched that episode in full until just now. We've already talked about it so I will just say Mark Schwahn created a mind-blowing episode. I could literally take every moment of this episode and write a book about each point. There's just SO MUCH involved. It digs deep, so many huge themes that other writers don't have the courage to go there. But Mark did. I don't even think you have to be a One Tree Hill fan to watch this episode. It plays out like a movie. Incredible stuff.

Originally Posted by cowgirl08 (View Post) You had never seen that episode in full!?!!? Wow. I have seen it a few times and am hesitant to watch again because I know how heart wrenching it is.

Originally Posted by ds44 (View Post) Keith's death breaks my heart, but it was so well done. You feel the aftermath for an entire season. As much as I loved Keith, Craig was such a powerhouse. It's not surprising they couldn't keep him. The episode is hands down one of my favorited of the series.

[jediwands]

Hey, thanks for being my eyes, Betty. I knew we were close to needing a new thread but forgot about it for a second when I posted my 3.16 thoughts. LOL

Thanks for the new one!

What episode are you on? Have you seen 3.17 yet? I am about to start it.

Now you know why I was so anal about wanting to know when you were hitting 3.15/3.16.

I was shocked we accomplished not spoiling you for this. Not that it's a good spoiler as you know. But I personally wanted you to enjoy Keith and Karen for as long as possible, Keith and Lucas, too. It's so heartbreaking.

Speaking of the actor who plays Keith... yes, I always thought of Craig as an extremely talented film actor... I specifically remember him in That Was Then... This Is Now, Some Kind of Wonderful and as Norman Maclean in A River Runs Through It where I legit thought he outperformed Brad Pitt.

He's a gifted actor and we were lucky seeing him on One Tree Hill.

[cowgirl08]

Thanks for the new thread Betty!

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by cowgirl08 (View Post) You had never seen that episode in full!?!!? Wow. I have seen it a few times and am hesitant to watch again because I know how heart wrenching it is.

Exactly!

Yes, I had never seen it in full before. At the time, I was hot and cold with One Tree Hill and watched the show in a very scattered, on and off way. Seriously, a bunch of these episodes I am seeing for the first time and not only that, this is really my first experience watching it in a true way because I watched entirely out of order.

I am a semi-newbie for sure.

[cowgirl08]

That's crazy! I sometimes wish I had never seen the show so I could get into it for the first time all over again haha. TV is due for another OTH, Evewood, FNL, type show....I get the genres have changed since that era but come on you can't tell me a drama of this nature wouldn't perform well on the CW at least!

[everwoodfan52]

You're welcome, Everyone!

What episode are you on? Have you seen 3.17 yet? I am about to start it.

I did watch it. I am so pissed at Karen. I know she's grieving...but...how could she say that to Lucas?

and as Norman Maclean in A River Runs Through It where I legit thought he outperformed Brad Pitt.

I Loved him in that movie!!

Yes, I had never seen it in full before. At the time, I was hot and cold with One Tree Hill and watched the show in a very scattered, on and off way.

I find it really surprising that you were not as hooked on this show as I am.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by cowgirl08 (View Post) That's crazy! I sometimes wish I had never seen the show so I could get into it for the first time all over again haha. TV is due for another OTH, Evewood, FNL, type show....I get the genres have changed since that era but come on you can't tell me a drama of this nature wouldn't perform well on the CW at least!

Agreed! Man, TV is SO due for another show like those you listed. It would absolutely perform well, you are right!

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by everwoodfan52 (View Post) I did watch it. I am so pissed at Karen. I know she's grieving...but...how could she say that to Lucas?

I know. I hated that part. Poor Luke.

I Loved him in that movie!!

Wasn't he tremendous? I loved that movie and Craig just shined. When I think of one performance that was phenomenal, it was his. He was fabulous.

I find it really surprising that you were not as hooked on this show as I am.

You know why? I was pissed off over what was happening to Everwood. I didn't allow myself to "like" any other show that got picked up when Everwood was chucked. That's absolutely why. I always loved Lucas/Peyton and Nathan/Haley and never stopped checking in on their status, watching episodes here and there. But at the time, I was consumed by my grief over Everwood.

[everwoodfan52]

Originally Posted by Mich1111 (View Post) You know why? I was pissed off over what was happening to Everwood. I didn't allow myself to "like" any other show that got picked up when Everwood was chucked. That's absolutely why. I always loved Lucas/Peyton and Nathan/Haley and never stopped checking in on their status, watching episodes here and there. But at the time, I was consumed by my grief over Everwood.

I totally understand that. I probably would have felt the same way.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by everwoodfan52 (View Post) I totally understand that. I probably would have felt the same way.

It was absolutely horrible. I was so mad. I considered dropping Fan Forum all together because of how pissed off I was. I didn't want to talk about shows anymore since our Everwood was ending.

[jediwands]

3.17

The opening with the Keith and Dan flashback as children with the Raven was so telling. First off, as a psychologist, a very telling finding sometimes is when children are cruel to animals.

Now, it doesn't mean that all children who have done bad things to animals turn out being serial killers. However, more times than not, a child who grows up being a violent criminal, usually has a history of animal abuse in some way.

The way Keith reacted to the raven, wanting to be gentle with it, wanting it to be saved is a very normal psychological reaction to seeing a wounded animal. Dan, on the other hand, thought nothing of dropping that stone on the raven and killing it... using "weakness" as an excuse for going there.

Very telling.

But where it gets so gray is Dan is immediately haunted by killing Keith... he starts seeing him as a child in his mind. If Dan was pure evil, he wouldn't have guilt but he does.

Brooke is back to being a terrible friend as usual. Why wouldn't she check in on her supposed best friend who almost died? Lucas and Karen are all that matters, not her best friend who was almost killed and who just lost her birth mother? You suck, Brooke.

Notice Lucas shows up to that party thingy and Brooke tells him if he has to do this alone, he can while he's looking at Peyton from the distance and then he goes off to find Peyton. What Luke needs is his soulmate, Peyton. That's what he needs to heal. Brooke is nothing but an annoyance. Lucas craves Peyton because she's the only one to truly heal him. Their library scene was perfect. They both love each other, they both know it, but they can't be together and Lucas will continue on with the delusion that he should be with Brooke. Of course, once again, this was AFTER Peyton once again told him they can't be together, he needs to be with Brooke, etc. Lucas, from day 1, always did what Peyton suggested they do. But Mark is so slick while writing Lucas/Peyton. You see it plain as day they are meant to be and will be together again. Like Mark said... in The Pilot Lucas said he'd be seeing Peyton... that was magic/code for we will be endgame, just wait for it.

Oh and also... notice that Peyton was the ONLY one to get Lucas to open up and even smile. Only Peyton. Not Brooke, certainly not Brooke or anyone else.

Next scene Lucas freaks out and all he wants to do is run away from Brooke. Hmm, he wasn't acting like that with Peyton in the library? Why the change? He wants no part of Brooke, he only feels comfort and security with PEYTON.

I loved the Lucas and Skills scene.

I also loved the Lucas/Whitey scene.

Of course Peyton has the rock star from Fall Out Boy romantically into her.

The worst moment of the episode, even over Dan spitting on Keith's grave is this one:

-Brooke: I wish that it was me. I know that’s horrible and I know that’s selfish, but I watched you rescue Peyton, and you told me you rescued Dan, and sometimes I just wish you could rescue me.

IS BROOKE FOR REAL?

After everything that has happened, she has the nerve to utter that line? WOW. That is the definition of needy, pathetic and SELFISH.

I could hardly get through this scene, it makes me so sick.

AND then to find out Brooke avoided Peyton after the shooting, after her almost dying, while still battling the loss of her birth mother, because she was jealous over Lucas saving Peyton? Seriously????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Wow, Brooke, you are disgusting.

I can't even with her. This is the worst she's ever been and yes, I was unaware of this storyline until now while watching it for the first time. GROSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is only one part of it that doesn't make me as mad and that's when Brooke admitted to Peyton that Lucas loves her, too. At least she admits it. Still, how is that Peyton's problem? She can't control what Lucas feels. Brooke had no right avoiding her after the school shooting because of this. Brooke also had no right making the shooting about her. Brooke made LUCAS reassure her after he just lost his uncle. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Peyton even jokingly tells her she's something else, she gets shot and she needs consoling. That is classic Brooke!

Damn that Hilarie and Sophia chemistry though. I still want to shake Brooke but their chemistry is good. But Brooke... really? I can't get over it!

But... that scene when Peyton goes on Brooke's back is ALL Hilarie/Sophia. The laughing and having fun is not their characters... it is them, all them.

Still, BROOKE!

How adorable is Larry for making Peyton those shelves and encouraging her to listen to Ellie's albums? What a guy.

Betty, you're right about Karen. I felt nothing emotionally for her in this episode. I don't know if it's how the actress played the grieving fiance though I tend to believe it's not the actress... she's typically bang on. I guess it was the writing and what Mark wanted from Karen but I didn't like it. She comes across as almost a bully! She looks like she wants to attack Lucas almost, it's really weird, blaming him for the death of Keith, then getting ticked that Lucas decided to go to Jimmy's funeral. It's bad.

I do wonder if Mark deliberately wanted this reaction from us. What I mean is maybe he didn't want to show much sympathy in the direction of Karen because it took away from Lucas' pain and suffering? That's the only thing I can come up with. Otherwise, I felt nothing for Karen but wanting to yell in her face to grow up. People grieve in different ways but literally, she acted like she was bullying her own son.

Lucas is so awesome going to Jimmy's funeral. I love Lucas. He ALWAYS does the right thing. He might screw up along the way and make endless mistakes... but he always, always learns and does the right thing in the end.

How cool that all the guys from the River Court went there together and in that car.

One little nitpick I have about this episode... Why isn't Nathan more upset over Keith's death? I get that Nathan doesn't feel the same way about his uncle that Lucas does but he's still family. Why isn't Nathan more upset over Keith's death? That was his uncle. An uncle he could have really gotten to know in the future.

I will never get over Brooke's behavior in this one, though. She is a piece of work. Karen, too. Both Brooke and Karen were terrible in this one.

[jediwands]

3.18

- Awe now I do feel sorry for Karen in the first scene. She is so consumed with sadness. I guess anger was her first way of dealing with it in 3.17 and now in 3.18 it's a paralyzing sadness.

- What a gross storyline between Lucas and Brooke. Brooke horny over something he wrote. I despise them and their lack of chemistry, but now I have to deal with some weird kinky sex thing and Brooke on her own reacting to his letter? Fun times. Not.

- On a brighter note, I love how Nathan had Lucas hold Haley's ring and told him about wanting to ask her to marry him again. It was awesome, as was the riding of those cool bikes in the woods.

- Oh and back to annoying Brooke, her constant insistence that Pete is Peyton's made up date is ridiculously irritating.

- Mouth and Peyton in bunk beds is hilarious.

- Why and the HELL would Brooke walk up to Pete and kiss him like that? WTF.

- Love every Lucas/Nathan scene.

- I love that Nathan had a moment due to Keith and what he said to Lucas was really sweet. There we go. I was expecting Nathan to say that in 3.17 but he did in 3.18 so good deal.

- Naley proposal was adorable!

- Karen confronting Dan was powerful stuff.

[break the window]

Originally Posted by cowgirl08 (View Post) That's crazy! I sometimes wish I had never seen the show so I could get into it for the first time all over again haha. TV is due for another OTH, Evewood, FNL, type show....

yes ma'am we over overdue!

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) The opening with the Keith and Dan flashback as children with the Raven was so telling. First off, as a psychologist, a very telling finding sometimes is when children are cruel to animals.

I thought it was very telling of how (what's the word...) atrocious. He always hunted down the weak and made them feel weaker. He never changed.

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) But where it gets so gray is Dan is immediately haunted by killing Keith... he starts seeing him as a child in his mind. If Dan was pure evil, he wouldn't have guilt but he does.

Dan has never been pure evil, not in my mind. Guilt ridden and bitter, yes, all his life. Dan never thought about the consequences in his actions. That's why he pushed everyone away and wondered why he could never make his marriage work. He could never make it work with Nathan. He never saw the downside of his actions sow how could he know that anything was really wrong?

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) What Luke needs is his soulmate, Peyton. That's what he needs to heal.

Very powerful. Lucas needed to heal. His heart was broken in many places that no one, not even Karen, could fully understand. What made it worse was all he saw were people partying and having a great time who didn't ahve a personal connection to the shooting. Jimmy was Lucas' friend...he killed took his life and (supossedly) took Keith's as well. Keith was Lucas' only father figure, the real man that mattered in his life. He died. Peyton, his one true love and passion in life was almost taken away. He didn't know where to start in how to heal. And it wasn't about going to a party, hanging out with your friends. It was about doing what it takes to get better. Lucas was only smiling when he went to see Peyton. Without words she always make him at peace. Just being with Peyton makes him whole, plain and simple.

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) Oh and also... notice that Peyton was the ONLY one to get Lucas to open up and even smile. Only Peyton. Not Brooke, certainly not Brooke or anyone else.

I did notice that He laughed when he was at his most miserable. Peyton does that for him and not to him.

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) Next scene Lucas freaks out and all he wants to do is run away from Brooke. Hmm, he wasn't acting like that with Peyton in the library? Why the change? He wants no part of Brooke, he only feels comfort and security with PEYTON.

The thing is he felt so suffocated that he couldn't be there. Brooke never got that. All she wanted to do was forget about that day. How can Lucas forget about that day when Keith isn't there!?!?! It's not like Keith is gonna return from the hosptial because he was only shot in the library and not shot dead by his brother. Karen isn't going to smile tomorrow becuase the love of her life was shot in cold blood. No one is going to heal becuase of some damn party that some pathetic cheerleader threw so she could forget about a day of tragedy. Trady doesn't just get forgotten about, misery loves company. Whoever thought a party cures tragedy is a complete idiot. She's an idiot then and she will always be dillusional. I cannot stand how she perceived herself as this loving caring person and all she turned out to be was a bitter bitch who manipulated people into being her friends.

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) AND then to find out Brooke avoided Peyton after the shooting, after her almost dying, while still battling the loss of her birth mother, because she was jealous over Lucas saving Peyton? Seriously????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Takes the cake doesn't it? She really showed her true stripes in Season 3 and Season 4 regarding her friend Peyton. She cared so much about Lucas loving her that she couldn't see another life. Nothing more to say really.

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) There is only one part of it that doesn't make me as mad and that's when Brooke admitted to Peyton that Lucas loves her, too. At least she admits it.

I think Brooke's head has always know it, but it's hear heart that cannot accept it. We all know we all try to give our hearts what it wants even though are heads are screaming for the right direction.

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) She can't control what Lucas feels.

OH MY GOODNESS! YOU FIGURED IT OUT!

No seriously, that's what their entire relationship is about. Her controlling Lucas' heart to feel for her the way she feels for him. And it's just not going to happen. It would never happen the way Brooke wanted it to. That's what the whole point of their breakup was. Brooke saw him as this bad guy and was he really a bad guy for breaking up with you so he coudl be with the girl he truly wanted to be with.

I think this really puts an end to Brooke trying to control everyone and just gives up, but you know, Brooke Davis doesn't give up wtihout a fight. And Brooke Davis fights dirty. So yes, it was hard to watch end of Season 3 and most of Season 4 becuase of that.

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) How adorable is Larry for making Peyton those shelves and encouraging her to listen to Ellie's albums? What a guy.

I loved Larry and how supportive he was for Peyton getting to know Ellie even after Ellie had died. He really understood that Peyton was really in a good place with Ellie when she died and deserved to know her real mom.

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) Betty, you're right about Karen. I felt nothing emotionally for her in this episode. I don't know if it's how the actress played the grieving fiance though I tend to believe it's not the actress... she's typically bang on. I guess it was the writing and what Mark wanted from Karen but I didn't like it. She comes across as almost a bully! She looks like she wants to attack Lucas almost, it's really weird, blaming him for the death of Keith, then getting ticked that Lucas decided to go to Jimmy's funeral. It's bad.

I applaud Moira's acting. Seriously, emmys all around for this episode.

Not even knowing that Keith was killed by Dan and she was still this emotional. And then finding Keith's adoption papers for Lucas. It was all so heartbreaking. She couldn't breathe or even leave her room. Her entire world was just pushed off a cliff.

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) I do wonder if Mark deliberately wanted this reaction from us. What I mean is maybe he didn't want to show much sympathy in the direction of Karen because it took away from Lucas' pain and suffering? That's the only thing I can come up with. Otherwise, I felt nothing for Karen but wanting to yell in her face to grow up. People grieve in different ways but literally, she acted like she was bullying her own son.

We've never seen a lot of emotion from Karen, especially towards Keith. We know how Lucas felt about having Kieth in his life, but what about Karen having Keith in her life. What did he really mean to her. And we found out. It was all those years of just being friends with him thinking he would always be there and maybe someday it would happen. It never got to really happen. Karen has to deal with all that pain and regret for moments they didn't get together or times that it just wasn't right. All those days after the shooting of waking up to find Keith not there and knowing he would never be there, not for real. How could anyone come to terms with that, especially in such a short period.

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) Lucas is so awesome going to Jimmy's funeral. I love Lucas. He ALWAYS does the right thing. He might screw up along the way and make endless mistakes... but he always, always learns and does the right thing in the end.

Lucas really spoke to a lot of people (character based and fan based) that even though Keith was shot and killed by who assumed to be Jimmy Edwards, he knew there was a bigger picture that had to be addressed. Jimmy Edwards was his friend and Jimmy Edwards didn't deserve to die. He didn't deserve to be treated like he did. And with everyone going around saying Jimmy was a murderer just isn't true. Lucas was in that hallway, even before Jimmy went into the speach about all the pain and how hard ti was. Lucas finally knew what was going on with Jimmy, but it was too late. If Lucas could, he would've grabbed the gun, but he had another life to save. I'm not saying that Peyton was a better human being than Jimmy, but Jimmy didn't want to be saved. Even if he didn't die that day, he wouldn't have made it much longer. He was dead on the inside and he wanted the outside to match the inside. Sad, but true.

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) One little nitpick I have about this episode... Why isn't Nathan more upset over Keith's death? I get that Nathan doesn't feel the same way about his uncle that Lucas does but he's still family. Why isn't Nathan more upset over Keith's death? That was his uncle. An uncle he could have really gotten to know in the future.

Look what type of relationship Nathan and Keith had....hardly have any. It was addressed a little bit in 3x17. But until Nathan was seven years old, he had never met Keith Scott. He probably never really heard a mention of Keith Scott. I mean Dan never talked about Karen and Lucas until they came to Tree Hill. I can't imagine how much Dan wanted to block out Keith from their lives. And what kind of lies would Dan tell Deb and Nathan about Keith. He always belittled his brother when they were there. So who knows what Nathan was led to believe about Keith. Then as they got older, Nathan didn't really have any type of relationship with Keith. There wasn't anything between them that they had in common. Nathan was always persuing basketball preparing for basketball and what game they would play. Then he was with Haley. So there was never a time where Nathan and Keith were ever really close. So he could displace his feelings where as Lucas could not.