[break the window]

He didn't want to leave, he was there to stay for the duration of whatever the series fate was. But when Mark was writing the episode he called Craig (Keith) and told him the story and the plot saying how there was no other way. I can't remember the exact words, but it something to that (imo, there was always a way) and that it had nothing to do with his work and it was just the story and how it progressed.

[everwoodfan52]

Poor Jimmy. I think this episode was really, really well done. I remember back in the day hearing about the buzz from the media on this episode. It was massive.

His acting was unbelievable. He was so convincing in his pain and really made us feel what he was feeling.

it's one of the more famous OTH episodes out there. And so painful......oh so painful. Very well done by everyone but ugh why Keith? Still irks me to this day.

Side note: All the switch over from WB to CW and all that mess. One Tree Hill was on the bubble of getting renewed (surprise, we had the bubble seat every season). But there was a question asked in the media "If there was one episode to convince the networks..." This was the episode.

I can't believe this series was in danger of not getting renewed, and I can imagine how much discussion this episode brought about.
It's interesting when that one young man (I forget his name....the one who called Jimmy a fat ass) said that it was stupid to stay in lock down. It's better to just run.
There is a lot of speculation in schools about that same issue. Even when the classrooms are dark and the shades are down...an intruder has to know that there are students hiding in there. Maybe it is better to just try to run out the door. It is a controversial topic.

[cowgirl08]

It always sucks when they kill a main character....I mean from a story point of view I like it to a degree. It's refreshing when a show isn't afraid to go there to really get the true emotion it wants. And he is right killing say Skills off or someone like that, wouldn't have been as impactful - but as a viewer I would have sacrificed not having this episode be quite as intense and emotionally powerful (still would have been touching no matter who died I think) for years of Karen and Keith down the road.

[break the window]

Mark explained on the DVD that he had no other choice. I really believe he did. From a writer standpoint, I do. Still gets me emotional

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Patricia He didn't want to leave, he was there to stay for the duration of whatever the series fate was. But when Mark was writing the episode he called Craig (Keith) and told him the story and the plot saying how there was no other way. I can't remember the exact words, but it something to that (imo, there was always a way) and that it had nothing to do with his work and it was just the story and how it progressed.

Wow, that's incredible. Mark reminds me a little of JK Rowling. Harry Potter was HER story and she kept with her vision and no one could enter her mind and change a thing. She had the entire series planned inside her head and that was that.

I guess Mark was "Rowling-like" with the death of Keith.

Even if the Keith situation was heartbreaking I guess on the flipside it worked for his pairings. He knew from the start it was always going to be Lucas/Peyton and Nathan/Haley. Like I linked the Lucas/Peyton quote and his one interview... he makes it clear it was always Lucas/Peyton and that never wavered. I also heard that he started to really trash Lucas/Brooke later on too. I don't know if that's true but if so, he might have been sick of Lucas/Brooke fans not getting it. In my mind, he spells it out IN the episodes that it's Lucas/Peyton. Then the guy shouts it out bluntly in interviews. I'm not sure what more they needed. LOL

But yes, I guess the death of Keith was what Mark needed to see transpire. It was his vision, his art. Mark writes a lot of the episodes (which I find amazing) but if you notice how much he was all over the last part of season 3 with his writing, I guess there's proof he really was strong about what direction it had to go in.

Thus, I respect Mark for his own art, his own story... I thank him for Lucas/Peyton and Nathan/Haley... but I still want to ask him WHY regarding Keith!

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Patricia And was there a reason it had to be in the rain. I feel like it was such a wasted moment in the rain when they are just fighting about something else that doesn't go right for the way Brooke wants it. It's just nauseating watching them, again, have this perfect moment when it's all gonna shatter again anyway.

Exactly! The rain could also represent how the fantasy that was their relationship continues to wash away. I don't really know how Lucas/Brooke fans actually liked that moment. I think it was a "dark" moment. Lucas is giving lame reasons, Brooke doesn't remotely look convinced, it was cloudy and depressing looking, their entire surroundings whereas Nathan/Haley looked like they were in Heaven while existing in the rain.

Originally Posted by Patricia Rachel might've been a little crazy. But she was never stupid. She knew the eyes Lucas had for Peyton and vice versa. She knew it would never work between the two. I think that's why Rachel initially didn't take Lucas and Brooke's relationship seriously and went out with Lucas. She knew they didn't work together. Take Peyton out of the picture, they just didn't belong together. Going back to remembering how Rachel seemed spiteful to break Lucas and Peyton up. It wasn't so she could go out with Lucas, I don't thinks he ever had a real romantic interest in Lucas. Sure, her methods were a little bit extreme like the basketball court and all that. But Rachel knew exactly what she was doing. In the beginning I don't think breaking them up was about Peyton, I think Rachel just liked to mess with people lol But in the end, Rachel was steering Lucas and Peyton in the right direction, at least Lucas anyway

Totally agree with everything you said. Rachel definitely knew the score. She is perceptive in this way. She knew Lucas/Peyton were the real deal. She knew it was only a matter of time before everything blew up in front of Brooke.

Originally Posted by Patricia I miss their scenes when they're just hanging out, no drama going. And then Whitey was accused of "pornographic videos"

That was so hilarious.

Originally Posted by Patricia I can't help but not feel sorry for her. It's not like all of this happened in a span of a few months. She put everything into place and it happened exactly the way it was supposed to. She got together with Lucas again knowing how it would end up. She was not prepared to live on her own and be by herself. She always depended on someone else. Brooke never taught herself how to be okay with everyone else being happy. She was never happy and always wanted to make everyone feel about as screwed up as she did.

You're absolutely right.

I think between the three of us... you, me, and Betty, if I were to rate the level of frustration we have for Brooke, it would go something like this:

Betty = 3/4ish

Michelle = 7/8ish

Patricia = 9/10ish

Actually, I think I am more 9/10 like you but Hilarie/Sophia as Peyton/Brooke and their chemistry causes me to go a bit soft sometimes.

But then when you come in with your intellectual reasoning, I harden up again and go more on your level.

Originally Posted by Patricia When Keith said "if every moment is like this, I can die a happy man." And that sealed the deal. The spoilers were around that two people will die in 3x16. We knew one was Jimmy, it was written that way that he shows up out of the blue and is a troubled kid. So that wasn't surprising. But Keith saying "die a happy man" just sealed it, locked it up, we knew it was gonna happen. But still, seeing it happen....so not expecting what exactly transpired[

Wow, I couldn't even imagine experiencing this in live time.

Did most people realize it was Keith before it aired or were some totally shocked and devastated? How to people generally react?

Originally Posted by Patricia When Peyton woke up with that monster hangover and Lucas was reading the paper. (and his blue eye shadow ) It was like every morning they would spend together for the rest of their lives. (minus the hangover part). Lucas reading a book of some kind or doing some writing with Peyton by his side.

I love the way you word things... so true!

Originally Posted by Patricia I really do believe this episode set the tone for every character's journey as far as their romantic relationships go. Spoiler: Remember Haley landing on Highway to Hell when playing the radio game. It was so reference, I think, to Cooper and Rachel's accident on the bridge in the finale and Nathan going to rescue them. Then to Nathan's motorcycle accident and how their world spiraled into....highway to hell

^^^ I totally forgot about that! You are so right, Haley was big time foreshadowing!

Originally Posted by Patricia Mark, during the commentary, explained during the filming when the gun clicked and they were just rehearsing. When Colin (the actor who played Jimmy) clicked the gun, several girls on the crew started crying. Because they were so caught up in the moment of this character just being so open and in the moment. I still wanna cry over this moment too

Wow! I also read an interview by Paul talking about how upset he was that Craig's character was being killed off. Apparently they were super close friends. It was tough on him and he was jumping for joy when Craig came back to make some appearances in the spiritual sense.

I can't even imagine how draining it had to be for everyone involved. That storyline is something else. It's award winning. Incredible stuff.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by everwoodfan52 (View Post) His acting was unbelievable. He was so convincing in his pain and really made us feel what he was feeling.

He was absolutely incredible. One Tree Hill suffered the same fate as Everwood concerning awards.... it can't be taken seriously due to the network. If it would have, he would have gotten at the very least, an Emmy nod, at most an actual Emmy.

He should have gotten something for this storyline. It's like Emily and the depression storyline on Everwood that was so overlooked.

Seriously, what more could these two actors do? They were Meryl Streep in their performances.

[break the window]

I feel like if One Tree Hill were on NBC or a big network like that, it would've been treated A LOT different than what it was. Espeically for 3x16 in garnering those Emmys. And Paul's acting in late Season 9. He was superb as well. So yeah, I think a lot of smaller networks get overlooked no matter how great the actors are.

But then again, I see Friday Night Lights, which is similiar to One Tree Hill and they were on NBC and got cnaceled. So I'm thinking that if OTH got put on a big network, it wouldn't have lasted.

The show, in the beginning, had so poor ratings. Like Mark's mom didn't evenk now the show was on It was that small. And becuase the WB was a smaller network and believed in the show and the crafts of the writing, they were kept on. So I guess it's a blessing in disguise.

[jediwands]

You are totally right that it was a blessing overall. Absolutely. I mean, the WB and later, CW simply created this type of show. I still say Everwood didn't fit in which was why the WB used and abused it, essentially not knowing what to do with such high quality.

But overall, most of those shows fit the mold created by both networks. So it worked. But you take the good with the bad and the Emmy awards just weren't going to happen. Look at poor Lauren Graham. She suffered as a result of what network Gilmore Girls was on. She would have won Emmy's yearly if the show would have been on a major network.

So yes, without the WB and CW, we wouldn't have even gotten One Tree Hill.

[break the window]

They had so much more freedom on WB becuase there was not huge market for it and they were finding a voice in the tv industry.

[cowgirl08]

It's the same today with CW shows, they rarely get the recognition even when they actually have the talent to deserve it. But at the same time, they have the freedom to be great. In some ways the WB/CW are cable channels that just happen to come with local programming. Yeah they are there but they still have that freedom that comes from not being on a major network like NBC, FOX, etc...... so there is good and bad which OTH saw both sides of.

[break the window]

I'd rather have what we were given.

So, moving on....

[jediwands]

3.16

Just watched it. I've never watched that episode in full until just now.

We've already talked about it so I will just say Mark Schwahn created a mind-blowing episode. I could literally take every moment of this episode and write a book about each point. There's just SO MUCH involved. It digs deep, so many huge themes that other writers don't have the courage to go there. But Mark did. I don't even think you have to be a One Tree Hill fan to watch this episode. It plays out like a movie. Incredible stuff.

[cowgirl08]

You had never seen that episode in full!?!!? Wow. I have seen it a few times and am hesitant to watch again because I know how heart wrenching it is.

[ds44]

Keith's death breaks my heart, but it was so well done. You feel the aftermath for an entire season. As much as I loved Keith, Craig was such a powerhouse. It's not surprising they couldn't keep him. The episode is hands down one of my favorited of the series.