Jerry D

Thanks!

I think that Louise saw the X-Ray and she knew that something was wrong. I love the concern that she showed in that scene.

It seems like all the progress Ephram made was swept away in these episodes, and he regressed to being the angry boy with a chip on his shoulder that we met in Season One. You also made an excellent point earlier about how he insulted Bright to his face when Bright asked him why he didn't knock on the door of his baby's parents. There was no reason for Ephram to do that, and he was just being cruel and spiteful.

Exactly, so I wish they had him do that at the end of this season instead of the end of Season Four.

It really was, and it reminded us of when this show first aired.

Absolutely.

He really did skate.

jediwands

I really hated this episode too! Andy finding out Nina has had romantic feelings/in love with him is the only good thing to come out of this episode. This is my least favorite episode of the series by far.

Completely agree. Ephram feels totally out of character. I think you hit it out of the park suggesting it was directorial and Greg went there a little too far. I just have a difficult time believing the writers want us to feel this pissed about it. Overly cruel, 100%, was Ephram and the sad thing is he doesn’t even care. If you didn’t know better as a psychologist this is precisely how a sociopath/psychopath works… no guilt, remorse for hurting others, especially those around you. Narcissist, yes, they go there as well but for different reasons. We know Ephram is none of those things and that’s why it is so shocking and frustrating… this isn’t him! You cannot pin his behavior on the baby revelation either. Yes, he’s lost still but the way he’s treating Amy has nothing to do with it anymore. It is like he’s going out of his way to confuse and upset her. There’s no way right before they get coffee he doesn’t understand her heart is breaking. He has a smile on his face the entire time. At the Brown house during their final scene he thought it was funny when she mentioned they would get married one day. His reactions are bizarre, overly cruel, and plainly out of character. As an Ephram and Amy fan it is just awful watching it go down.



She was phenomenal. Emily shines during these last episodes. She always does and while S2 and the depression storyline caught the attention of critics and fans alike, her S3 performance is also a thing of beauty.

Right? I didn’t pick up on the misogynistic flavor going on until this re-watch. It’s infuriating. Poor Rose, indeed.

Good luck with the move and great to see you around again!

jediwands

It is subtle but so profound.

Definitely. Honestly, he needed the Europe trip to finally grow up. Before this time, it can be rough watching his behavior. Psychologically, I feel like he went there with Bright almost to reassure himself that he can screw up but hey his friend Bright is known for being a screw up and punching bag so if I remind myself of this I don’t seem so bad then…

It would have been so much better. At the very least, it should have happened early S4, no later than mid-S4. Waiting until the series finale was ridiculous. We also have to ensure another surprise with him personally which is wasted moments that could have been spent on characters we actually care about.

Jerry D

One thing that struck me in this episode is how Rina seemed to delight in making Amy suffer. They made Ephram act in a totally out of character way and hurt Amy in ways the Ephram we all knew and loved would never do. While Ephram could be selfish and immature, I can't see him breaking Amy's heart for no reason like he did. Like you said so well in your commentary Michelle, Amy’s heart was not only shattering but it was bleeding during the scene where Ephram told her that he didn’t see a forever with her. Like we all have said before, Rina was obviously jealous of Amy types (pretty and popular) and so it seems like she took pleasure in having Amy suffer, which she admitted to at that round table where it was discussed what would have happened if we had gotten a Season Five.

In addition to that, Rina admitted that she was like Hannah and Hannah was largely based on her, so we saw Hannah get a guy that Rina probably never had a chance with when she was a teenager, namely a handsome, athletic and popular guy like Bright.

I really hate that Berlanti let Rina call so many of the shots in this season. Whenever a talented showrunner leaves their show in the hands of someone who doesn’t share the same vision for the show that they do, the show always suffers for it.

jediwands

So well said, Jerry!

I completely forgot about the Rina angle. It had to play a part in how harsh these last couple episodes were for Amy. I bet Rina had so much fun.

I so agree about Berlanti. I have a feeling he would have constructed the end of S3 way differently and Ephram wouldn’t have been so out of character which meant Amy wouldn’t have been stepped on so much either.

Jerry D

I could see Ephram telling Amy that he needed some time alone away from her and everyone, but he didn't have to break her heart like he did. That was cruel and unnecessary for Amy and for us as the audience. I can't see Berlanti going there like Rina did.

jediwands

Exactly. Precisely. Telling her he needed alone time from the start was the best option. The second he got back from NYC I understand his desire to go to her house. But the next morning when he knew he wasn’t doing great he should have told her as much. Getting away would have hurt and confused her but nothing like what happened instead with him around. Then he asks her to hang out which was another mistake. He should have explained he needed to be alone. He understood their history. Amy tells Ephram in 4.1 they were never really friends and she’s right! 100%. They were friends but always always with romantic feelings. Always gray. Ephram knew this so asking her to hang out only tortured and hurt her even more given his behavior. On top of this, the Madison band lie wasn’t even that far in the past either. Too much hurt and pain for Amy to handle.

I think if Berlanti would’ve been around he probably would’ve sent Ephram to Europe sooner. The best way to handle it would’ve been sending him to Europe and then in the season finale of 3 the last scene showing him returning from Europe… do a slight time jump then before the season ended. That way Ephram didn’t have to also look terrible leaving knowing Rose had cancer. He didn’t just leave Amy but also abandoned Bright. He could have left before they found out about her diagnosis.

Yes, Berlanti would have constructed these last episodes way differently. I think Rina had a little too much fun torturing Amy.

everwoodfan52

I hate all of the episodes that end Season 3. Believe me...if it were not for the rewatch I would just skip over them and head onto Season 4!

Most youth are lucky like this....but not me! I´ve had to watch all my life!
Ephram actually looked like he knew what he was doing with that basketball. I wonder if any of them actually made it into the basket!

I hate this Ephram. Does he forget the old days (season 1) when he was anxious to hang out with Amy?
I am flabberghasted that Harold saw that Roseś symptoms lasted so darn long and wasn´t even a little alarmed. I was alarmed and Iḿ not even a doctor!

Brian is a super snob and a creep!


Looks like you waited too long, Andy!

Horrible episode.

.
Iḿ glad I gave you a little break before you had to watch!

everwoodfan52

Lucky you!! Sure sounds like more fun than watching Ephram sell his piano....break his sisterś heart....abandon Amy in her need....and leave the country!

Jerry D

It would have been so much better that way. I also hate the fact that we spent all of Season Four with Ephram and Amy apart and then the show ended thanks to what happened here at the end of Season Three.

I agree, and I don't think that Berlanti would have had Ephram cruelly break Amy's heart like he did. I think that we have Rina to "thank" for that.

everwoodfan52

It appears that the only way that Andy would realize that he had feelings for Nina was if Jake told him, and the only way that Nina would realize she belonged with Andy is if Jake told her! Thank God for Jake or Andy and Nina would have never ended up together!

Jerry D

That's a true point! I guess that Jake had to be good for something besides being annoying!

Alexa

FINALLY A NEW THREAD WOO HOO!!!!

I am extremely busy for the rest of August so I probably wont have time to post a lot. That might be for the best considering my opinions are drastically different from everyone else lmao. I'm still exhausted from last thread to go in circles again. You all know what I think...



Harold’s reaction to Amy getting into Princeton was great.

I get Ephram changing his mind about seeing his kid and he is right that he needed to see that for himself.

Ephram and Amy's "break up" was so awkward because they didn't even confirm that is what was happening last epiosde. I assumed they had just gotten in a little fight but now they feel so awkward. Did they not talk in an entire week? I’m so confused. We didn’t really get a break up scene.

It was cute that Amy wanted to get back with Ephram but I hate that she just plans these things out for Ephram without talking to him and I think Ephram was right in saying she shouldn’t make decisions based on him. (She would have done the same damn thing for Colin!) . She needs to think about herself. But it was also a bit stupid of him to ask her out and think it wouldn’t mean anything more. This is why I love this show though, because you can usually see everyone’s sides in things. I dont agree with the harsh Ephram critisim here. He's still going through something traumtic/fresh. He's not dealing with it well, but its understandable that he wants space imo.

The speech at the end from Amy was so sad. Her bringing up the necklace and infinity sucked. And the fact that Ephram implied he wanted to be just friends was awful. He’s just lost and confused right now and ruining things with Amy without even seeing it. But I really just don’t get why they even broke up or what happened there??? Cuz ultimately he came to the same decision about his son right? It’s not like they were just on different pages there. But I guess now that he is “done” with piano and New York he feels like he doesn’t have a concrete plan and doesn’t want to hold her back. I just wish that Amy had fought or him more? She seemed to kinda just accept they were over. It's definitely on Ephram here, but I feel like she could have tried to talk things out more. But it seems impossible with him planning to leave.

Jake’s brother is too much. (But I did agree with him about Red states lmao.) But he was so mean about Nina. Let your brother make his own choices. It really wasn’t his brothers place to tell Nina about Jake's financial issues either. He just came off smarmy. But he’s not completely wrong about Jake’s finances. In a weird way I understand if his brother thinks Jake is just running away from his problems.

“He doesn’t stick out, he stands out.”

That was sweet. And I don’t blame Nina for being angry with his brother and being passive aggressive after his snide little comments.

I can’t believe Jake just flat out told Andy about Nina’s feelings, he is always putting his foot in his mouth but I genuinely think he is just naive. Jake/Nina are sweet though. I really don’t mind them. But I dont really get why the show is trying to push them so hard if they ultimately want Nina and Andy to happen.

Not sure what to say about Rose and the tumor. That sucks!

Top 5:
1. Nina
2. Jake
3. Andy
4. Amy
5. Harold

everwoodfan52

This show seems to do this kind of thing alot. THe episode after the magical cabin scene had Ephram buying a Christmas present for Amy and then going to see Madison´s band! Nothing regarding what happened at the cabin...just cut to life as usual!
The same with this episode. Amy gave Ephram back the necklace and left heartbroken. Nothing about what happened next was shown. No conversations...it was if Ephram didn even care about what happened! THen cut to awkward meetings in school..and we are left to wonder.

jediwands

I agree. For as much as I LOVE that night they slept together and the postcards moment, I kind of wish this would have been the time period they worked on slowly getting back together. They could have shared the postcards moment, almost gotten intimate, have Amy pull back and then talk to him later that she's still a bit scared of getting hurt/her heart broken again, so they have to take it slowly. They they transition over the next 1-2 episodes on a date, etc. Instead, we received the nice postcards moment, sleep together with Amy freaking out and completely going back into friends only zone officially without working on getting back together. I didn't love this even if I understood why Amy got scared. They slept together! The other way we would have received a permanent romantic reunion sooner.

I think you are 100% correct. Berlanti would have found it out of character and way too emotionally involved with his romantic pairing to go there. It would have been so different. Rina, on the other hand, was in soap opera Dawson's Creek mode, loving the harsh treatment and Amy's heart shattered.