jediwands

Thanks, Jerry.

I had to quickly rewatch that scene between Ephram and Amy when Ephram said he didn’t see a marriage/forever.

Ephram does laugh/chuckle when Amy asks about long-term. Anyone who has watched this scene understands that Ephram doesn’t burst out laughing (which is not what I meant) but he smiles widely, chuckles, has this odd expression on his face, finding it ridiculously insane Amy would see them as forever/married. Indeed, he does. His reaction, the context, watching Amy fall apart heartbroken with his dumb smile/finding it funny is just… something else.

jediwands

Now I am ready for the rewatch to get going again so we can get by this rotten storyline. LOL.

Jerry D

Me too!

everwoodfan52

Please feel free to continue the rewatch. Don't wait for me!

jediwands

jediwands

Oh no, I didn't mean it like that.

I just meant since we discussed probably the worst part of this storyline (Ephram and Amy breaking up) I am eager to get to the part where Amy is strong and stable, Ephram realizes he wants her back, never should have treated her so poorly.

Absolutely we will wait for the restart date!

Jerry D

We're all fine with the date that we're going to recommence with the rewatch Betty. Enjoy your time with your family.

jediwands

^ 100%!

everwoodfan52

Thanks, You two!!

jediwands

Alexa

I think thats a lot to expect from a 16 year old boy. (Not to have a love life, I mean)


Again, was this in this episode??? Or the next one?

I think the scene you are referring to is in the next episode, and i have a lot of thoughts on it, but wont post about it now seeing as it hasnt happened yet in this rewatach timeline... but i will say one small thing, i didnt view the scene the same way. (shocker). I viewed it more as, Ephram wasnt in a place to talk about forever and long term when he was dealing with something really intense at that exact moment in time. His relationship with Amy was not his priority (and rightfully so, after discovering such life changing huge news such as having a child!) and therefor he couldn't give her all the perfect answers she was looking for. I felt like she was really putting a lot of pressure on him and their relationship which contributed to it crumbling. Not saying Ephram is innocent at all. I will have to read over my notes but I did have criticism for Ephram too. But again, its not entirely on him.


Good thing I never cared about what the "majority" of the audience thinks. Thats a pretty high number to pull out tho. 95%? I find that hard to beleive. And I am sure a lot of Ephram supporters were keeping their mouths shut because who wants to try to argue with all that hate. Doing it now against two people is hard enough.




All she had to do was be a supportive g/f in a genuine way. Tell him how sorry she was for how things went down, that Ephram had deserved to know the truth about his child. That if Ephram wants to be a father and pursue this relationship then she fully supports it and will help, because hes the man that she loves and wants to be with. She also needed to step back regarding his schooling and let him make that decision on his own. So yeah, there are definitely things she did poorly and could have done differently imo.

How is that unrealistic???? You may not agree with it but that doesnt mean its unrealsitic. Its a perfectly reasonable thing to do in other peoples eyes. This is your child that you havent had the chance to meet, i think it would be tempting to want to see them. i really dont understand this train of thinking tbh.

Jerry D

Alexa, obviously you're seeing things differently than me and Michelle, which is fine, but I don't think we're showing you any hate here. We just view Ephram's actions differently than you do. I like seeing different points of view and I know Michelle does too. We all bring different points of view to these discussions due to our backgrounds, etc. I was adopted as a baby, so from my own point of view I'm glad that I didn't find out who my birth parents were until I was an adult, and I think that my parents would have been upset if one of my birth parents knocked on their door and tried to see me when I was a baby or when I was little, but again that's just my point of view gathered from my personal experience.

jediwands

Regarding Ephram... there was actually a very small, loud group here on this board back in the day who despised Ephram in general. They hated him. I spent a great deal of time debating/discussing with them. They were critical of everything he did. They blamed him for many things in S1 Colin was responsible for. It was very aggressive hatred for Ephram and I stuck up for Ephram because some of it was not pulling from actual source material... they just wanted to despise him because they loved Colin. So imagine how they reacted to end of S3 Ephram.

So yes, I certainly do not hate Ephram, but during this S3 storyline I have a big problem with his behavior. But I totally remember this small group back in the day on this very board who detested Ephram which I could never understand. Like I said, show facts and reasoning instead of I love Colin more. It was pretty odd.

jediwands

Well said, Jerry. I understand why this storyline touches you in a personal way as it should. You have the personal experience and wisdom here.

jediwands

Really quick thoughts and then I am honestly done with discussing this topic because it has been talked out mostly, and more can be said when we get to the upcoming episodes.

1. Ephram 16

Ephram being only 16 years old and how he should have been defined at that age is always interesting to me… He was only 16 and yet with an adult woman romantically. In the eyes of the law it was illegal. But Ephram and Madison demanded this relationship happen against Andy’s wishes. So it happened. Does that then make Ephram mature enough to be with a 20/21 year old woman? What about when he got her pregnant? Was he mature enough then? So he was in a relationship with an adult woman as a boy, he got her pregnant yet we’re going to say there shouldn’t be a lot of expectations on this 16 year old boy even after all of this or he's just 16, kind of thing?

2. Ephram found it crazy funny

The episode Ephram found it crazy funny (even though we had seen the opposite the entire series and he gave her the necklace symbolizing Infinity) Amy pictured them married and that they'd be long-term was 3.19. Acceptance.

Ephram, in my mind:

- Shouldn’t have asked her for help.
- Should have immediately put distance between them before he hurt and broke her heart.
- Ephram returns at the beginning of S4 telling Andy he was wrong. So it seems very appropriate given what we know he messed things up terribly and thus, why so many have issues with his behavior during this time. Ephram, himself, doesn’t want justification for his behavior when he says it sucked immediately after he returned from Europe. Lol.

3. Regarding the 95%:

95% was referring to 95% at both and Fanbolt. It was that big of a majority. I was a regular here as a moderator, lurked on Fanbolt regular threads on the Everwood board and Spoilers Everwood I lurked. So 9ish out of 10 people on all three were very upset or frustrated over that scene in one way or another. It was not a scene the vast majority understood in the least. They either found it unrealistic based on what we had seen up until that point or heartbroken for Amy.

So the fandom on those three boards/threads/sites, the overwhelming majority had strong emotional reactions after witnessing that scene.

4. Regarding Amy:

I personally don’t think she needed to put up with anything regarding this situation. I don’t think she should be judged on how to perfectly act. From the moment they got together romantically he was the one screwing up.

Let me count the ways:

- Returns from Juilliard acting coded and pouting because he did poorly over the summer. Took it out on Amy.
- She gave up normal dates and time for him and his piano the entire year.
- He was a manipulative lying idiot right after they had sex and schemed saying that he was sick so he could try see to Madison and her band. He even gets her number and tells Andy he wants to call her.
- The baby reveal, he dumps her and took it out on Amy.
- He bails for Europe right as Rose is diagnosed with cancer.

When exactly is AMY screwing up here? Why is Amy being judged for all of Ephram’s screw ups? Sorry I think it’s absolutely ridiculous that Amy is being judged and she needs to be supportive and say all the right things after it was revealed he got another woman pregnant. It is ludicrous. He messed up how many times but let’s judge Amy critically here, especially when we know Ephram understands in a short time she did nothing wrong. It doesn’t make any sense to me. He hurts her so much she has to protect her heart after he returned from Europe, she literally needed to put a temporary wall up given everything.

The character, himself, tells us we shouldn’t be judging Amy in the not so distant future based on what he says to Andy. I believe him because it’s pretty clear purely watching the episodes that he was right on.

5. On it being unrealistic for Ephram to knock on the door of the adopted parents:

Is it truly realistic that Ephram has every right to waltz right up to the door of the now real parents of the baby? Just because he impregnated an adult woman as a minor he has more rights than the real adopted parents and that means he can just walk up to their door and demand to see the baby just because of biology while ignoring the adoption and entering the space uninvited of these people, turning their world upside down?

I mentioned a while back he had every right to legally investigate the adoption, how it went down, what rights, if any, he has. But that is going through the legal system and/or talking to Madison. It is not barging into the home of now the real parents of the baby.

6. Ephram’s own words:

Ephram, in the beginning of S4, tells us he was in the wrong concerning Amy, his entire behavior and what he did to her. He literally tells us he was wrong and wants Amy back. Is he not telling the truth here? If it was "50/50" why on earth is Ephram not saying as much? Why are they not fighting about what all went down at the end of S3 if Amy should be put on trial for her behavior at the end of S3? It is never mentioned one time during the aftermath. Ephram understands he was in the wrong, begs for her back, yearning for her back throughout ALL of S4 and finally he gets his wish in the series finale as they reunite completely. Amy couldn't even take him back earlier after they slept together. She was STILL scarred and scared during this time period and needed more time. Ephram hurt her so much it caused a lasting hurt and insecurity. Ephram understood this. The audience (or most) understands it. She finally is able to trust he will not do to her what he did at the end of S3 (and throughout all of S3 for that matter) and they reunite.


===

Okay, I am definitely, 100%, all talked out on this topic. Like Jerry perfectly stated we have clear differences in opinion so it’s appropriate to move on from the discussion.