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I agree with the rest of your thoughts on Andy having a terrible episode with Delia, with Nina, and for all the reasons you listed. Yes, that's the thing with Hannah and Topher... cute, but the spark is not there. Plus, I find it really weird he knew about her father and nothing was discussed on why, how, or what the deal was with that situation. Sounds good! Amazing you can watch the episodes while being so busy. THAT is dedication. Last edited by jediwands; 06-20-2022 at 12:37 PM |
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#32 | |||
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Okay, so we will proceed with 3.19 this coming Sunday.
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This was an extremely difficult episode for me to watch and write about, as the theme was very aptly titled Fallout, as we witnessed the fallout of Ephram receiving the news that he had gotten Madison pregnant and she had their baby without telling him, all due to Andy telling her not to tell him and sending her away. We saw Ephram take out his hurt and anger on not only Andy, but on Amy, the person who loved him with all of her heart, and that fallout had repercussions which reverberated through this episode and would also reverberate through the rest of this series.
We saw Ephram wake up on the couch at Amy’s house, and Harold told Ephram that Andy was concerned about him and that he needed to get home, but Ephram contemptuously replied that Andy’s concern was “too little too late.” We then saw Ephram tell Amy how he kept replaying what happened with Madison in his mind and that three days ago everything was perfect, but then it had all fallen apart as Amy offered him her loving support, and he said that she was the only person that he could trust. We saw Andy confide to Nina what had happened with Ephram and that he needed to refocus on what he had missed in his life due to harboring Madison’s secret and getting involved with yet another emotionally unavailable person, and he seemed to want to direct his focus on Nina, but then he learned to his dismay that she was now involved with Jake. We saw Hannah and Bright together as he had picked her up at the airport after visiting her family, and he teased her about her diary, and she told him when her father first got Huntington’s Disease she had prayed that God would cure his disease, and Bright said that we didn’t know what God could or couldn’t do, and that maybe we prayed for insurance, just in case it works, and Hannah replied that maybe God had answered her prayers in a different way by making her not have the gene that causes Huntington’s Disease, maybe her prayers were too late for her father but they had saved her instead. We saw Ephram talking obsessively about the baby and how he wanted to find him, but he didn’t want to ask Madison for more details because he didn’t want to talk to her or forgive her or forgive Andy. I loved how Amy was there for Ephram but he was too blinded by the news that he had received to appreciate her loving support. We then saw Andy shopping with Delia, who wanted to repaint her room, but then they ran into Jake and Nina at the store, and Andy decided to organize a painting party with the ulterior motive of finding more information about Jake and Nina’s relationship, much to Delia’s dismay. We saw Harold talk to Amy, who was up late finding information for Ephram, and Amy talked about how she felt helpless as Ephram was suffering so much and he advised that she step back and let Ephram work this out on his own, and Amy reacted harshly to his well-meaning advice. Armed with the information that Amy had given him, Ephram went to Denver to try and track down his baby, but when he got to the adoption agency, he found out that Madison didn’t list him as the father of their baby when she gave him up for adoption so he had no legal avenue to find out where his baby was, and Ephram was distraught at this news, but the person who worked at the adoption agency took pity on him and told him the county in California where his baby was living. Back in Delia’s room, we saw Andy asking Nina and Jake about their relationship, and Delia, seeing what was going on and seeing how Andy had commandeered her project, grew increasingly angry. Jake then let it slip about Ephram, and Andy lashed out at Jake, and Andy abruptly ended the painting party, and he said that he was going to hire a contractor to paint Delia’s room. We then saw Delia lash out at Andy because he had totally rearranged her room without consulting her about it and he had picked a color for her room that wasn’t her choice and that she hated it, and Delia lashed out at Andy and she said, correctly, that everything revolved around Ephram and all she wanted to do was paint her room, but then he obnoxiously took over her project and he organized a painting party that she didn’t want and then he totally redid her room without her input or permission, showing, once again, how out of touch Andy was concerning the needs of his children and how his tendency to take over their lives just caused them to resent him, and in Ephram’s case it had disastrous results. We saw Ephram tell Amy what had happened and she asked him how far he intended to take this, but Ephram wouldn’t listen to anything she was saying as he was completely focused on his own pain and anguish and he had no consideration for anyone else, including her, but Amy, with her heart in the right place and wanting what was best for Ephram, arranged to get him another audition at Julliard, but this backfired on her as he turned the chance down because he was going to California to try and see his baby, ignoring and not appreciating all the effort that she had made on his behalf, and she accidentally blurted out that she knew about Madison’s pregnancy just before he left for New York, and she intended to tell him about it when he got back, but she had no idea that Madison was in New York and that she was going to tell him about the baby right before his audition, so she wanted him to have another chance to get that audition, but instead of being grateful to her for what she had done, he cruelly lashed out at her and he told her to get out. We saw Hannah tell Bright how frustrated she was with God and he told her that she wasn’t looking for answers and she was just hiding out from having to live her life, and that she was still afraid, and she got angry at Bright and told him to shut up, and she left in a huff, but as we later saw with Topher, Bright’s words did have a positive effect on her and she asked Topher out after confiding in him about her father (whose situation he already knew about) and telling him that she needed to take more risks. I liked seeing Andy confide in Nina about his issues with Ephram and how Ephram wouldn’t talk to him, and Nina correctly told him that those issues were spilling over into every other part of his life, and that he needed to talk to Ephram. I loved the advice she gave him and as always, I loved seeing her be there for Andy as a supportive friend even though he had inadvertently hurt her in the past. My heart broke for Amy as she sat in her car crying, and Harold went out to see her and he sat next to her and she tearfully told him that her and Ephram had broken up, and when Harold apologized for what he had told her earlier, she told him that she understood and that he was trying to protect her because he loved her, and that when you love someone you try to protect them and keep them away from all the bad stuff but it just doesn’t work, and Ephram’s cruel words and treatment of her had left her heartbroken and devastated, and no matter how much Ephram was hurting, he never should have taken everything out on Amy like he did. We saw Andy stand up to Delia and refuse to let her eat in her room, saying that they needed to do things as a family and he told her that he makes mistakes and he tried to take an interest in her life and how she was conversing with her friends on her computer, and Delia’s angry wall broke down and everything seemed to be okay between her and Andy again, at least for now. We saw Ephram take a cab to the house where his baby was living, but then he changed his mind and he didn’t go into the house and he told the cabdriver to take him back to the airport, as I feel he realized that nothing good could come out of his intruding in on the life of a son that he never knew that he had, and for the only time in the episode, I feel that he made the right decision. Things didn’t end so well between Andy and Ephram however as Andy tried a similar “tough love” tactic with Ephram when he got back from California, but Ephram refused to listen to him and he coldly said that he would be leaving soon. Overall, this was a very hard episode to watch as the fallout of Madisongate had a devastating effect on the key relationships on the show with more pain and heartache soon to come. __________________
The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it - and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. - John F. Kennedy
There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why - I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert F. Kennedy |
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#34 | |||
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I dont see Ephram submitting the essay as the same because he was just giving Amy multiple options. With the juliard thing, it was like, Ephram HAD to go to the audition at that day and time and if he didn't, he was missing his shot yet again. Him not going is way worse too because him bailing on that school TWICE would thus ruining his chances for down the line even more, in case he does change his mind again. Where as, its not like Amy had to pick Princeton. She had other options. Also, how did Amy even get the interview? Her phonecall to the school was a complete and utter disaster lol. Quote:
Frankly I dont like that Ephram is the only one apologizing in the future episodes (if that is the case, I will need to rewatch) because he shouldnt be. Andy was 100% in the wrong. And IMO Amy is in the wrong this episode too with how she acted. If she didnt want Ephram to see his kid or help raise it that is totally fine, but she needed to be honest about that and not passive agressive with her "support". I fully support Ephram returning and making amends and forgiving Andy and Amy for keeping this secret from him, but I dont think he should apologize for wanting to go to Europe. I do think the break up with Amy was very rash though, and I do agree that it sucked, but you will get more thoughts on my opinion regarding that in the next episode discussion. I am only referring to right now, in this episode. Quote:
Ephram also did not react poorly to Amy in that moment even though I was just as irritated right there with him. He spoke very calmly to her and tried to explain his reasons why he was done with Juliard... She had no right to schedule this behind his back without even asking what days would work for him? I found that so odd. And even more odd that people in this thread are really defending Amy to this level. Maybe being more on Amy's side and not understanding Ephram sure, but the level of hate for Epharm right now really makes no sense to me. Where in the episode did he ever handle anything poorly? (Okay, other than telling Amy to leave and that his child was more important (though in his defense I think he is right. Your child should bet he most important thing to you)). That was not Ephrams greatest moment and liKE i said, I did agree with Amy in that BRIEF little period but everything else she did in the episode didn't feel 100% genuine to me. It didnt feel like hse took time to think about what Ephram wanted and needed to get closure on this. She was just trying to push him into this old life to put a bandaid on their problems. Also Im sorry but how many times did Amy hurt Ephram over the years??? With her constantly putting him in the friend zone and choosing other guys over him but then also sort of leading him on? Amy's made mistakes too. And this is coming from someone who defended Amy constantly through the episodes thus far. So I mean, Ephram is going to make some mistakes too, neither of them are perfect. __________________
There's a moment of truth, Last edited by Alexa; 06-21-2022 at 01:25 AM |
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#35 | |||
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Alexa, Amy was able to arrange a second audition in Julliard for Ephram because she got in touch with the recruiter at Colorado A & M who was a Julliard graduate who had tried to recruit him, and he pulled some strings to get him another audition.
Yes, Amy hurt Ephram in the past when she was torn between her feelings for Colin and her feelings for him, but what he did to her was far worse than what she did to him in my opinion. It wasn't Amy's fault that he got Madison pregnant and Andy and Madison hid that information from him, and Ephram was stupid and childish to throw away his dream of going to Julliard just to spite Andy, and he was doubly stupid and childish to lash out at Amy for her arranging to give him another chance to pursue his dream. I completely understand that he was upset and angry but he shouldn't have taken it all out on Amy, and he shouldn't have thrown away his future again when she was able to get him another audition to Julliard. The people who adopted his baby weren't going anywhere, but his chance to go to Julliard had a shelf life, which he once again disregarded due to his wallowing in his own anger due to what had happened. I also don't feel that Ephram should have acted like Amy betrayed him because she found out about Madison's pregnancy right before his Julliard audition, because she knew that would upset him, and like she said, how could she possibly know that Madison would be in New York and that she would drop that bombshell at the worst possible time? Yes, Ephram had every right to be mad at Andy and Madison but he had no right to be mad at Amy, and he had no right to break her heart like he did. __________________
The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it - and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. - John F. Kennedy
There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why - I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert F. Kennedy |
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#36 | ||||||||||||||||||
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1. Why did Madison put that on there? She didn't want Ephram to ever find out? She was scared she would be prosecuted? She truly didn't know? 2. Did you think it was inappropriate for the person who worked at the adoption agency to tell him the county in California? Quote:
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Last edited by jediwands; 06-21-2022 at 09:26 AM |
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#37 | |||
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I love that you have a different opinion from us, Alexa. That is what this series allows... different opinions on really tough topics. I completely agree with you that Ephram going to Europe was a VERY good idea. It really was the best thing for him to do even if the timing might not have been perfect given Rose's cancer and what Bright and Amy were struggling with. But overall, he needed it and I love how he returned such a mature, wise, calm, and intellectual young man. He really did turn from a boy to a young man upon his return and I loved this so much. Even if we see Ephram's actions differently during this time period, we are all on the same page again in S4 which Everwood is good for, too. Last edited by jediwands; 06-21-2022 at 09:14 AM |
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#38 | |||
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2. I do think it was inappropriate for the person at the adoption agency to tell Ephram the county in California where his baby was, and if he had gone to see the couple that had adopted him and introduced himself as the baby's father, she could have gotten in trouble. I was glad that he turned back and didn't go through with his plans to talk to the adoptive parents of his baby. I think that it's much better that I found out who my birth parents were when I was an adult rather than when I was a kid, as it would have upset me and my parents, especially my mother. Even now, I have mixed feelings about whether I would have wanted to meet my birth parents since they gave me up, especially my birth father as he never told anyone about me while my birth mother apparently regretted giving me up. If I could go back in time, I think that I would have gone to see my birth mother but I wouldn't have gone to see my birth father. Quote:
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__________________
The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it - and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. - John F. Kennedy
There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why - I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert F. Kennedy |
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One thing that struck me last night (as it often does during this rewatch) is how incredibly talented Emily VanCamp is, especially in this scene between her and Harold:
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The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it - and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. - John F. Kennedy
There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why - I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert F. Kennedy |
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#41 | |||
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#43 | |||
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I could not agree more! I noticed on the past rewatch many people were talking about Emily's talent. S2 and the Amy depression storyline was highlighted and even critics raved over Emily. But when you watch her in S3, she is also flawless. She is amazing. Her talent is so unlike the norm, she is incredibly gifted and mesmerizing on the screen. Yes, indeed, 100%, Amy was light years ahead of Ephram when it comes to maturity and understanding. Amy evolved slowly but surely in the mature department. Ephram reverted. Any progress he made just kept getting erased and that is the sad part. |
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#44 | |||
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Seriously, though, I've really noticed this pattern with Ephram, especially in the earlier seasons: Just when you think that he's made progress, or him and Andy have made progress, all that progress gets wiped away in the next episode and we're all back to square one. It frustrates me to no end to see that, and I've especially seen that in this rewatch. __________________
The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it - and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. - John F. Kennedy
There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why - I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert F. Kennedy |
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#45 | |||
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But its not about getting Madison pregnant... that is an entirely different issue. It's about the fact that he was never told.
Had Madison told him about the baby they could ahve come to a decision together and he still could have been on track to play piano and attend his audition. Her telling him right before is what threw everything off. So after that, circumstances changed entirely. If Ephram was acting like a jerk this whole time, or even after learning the news (if he was told right away) that would be different. Quote:
And again, it was Amy just trying to ignore the problem of Ephram having a child and trying to keep things "normal" between them. She was hoping if he went to this audition and got back on track he could just forget about his kid and she wasn't taking into account at ALL how huge of a deal this was. Having a child otu there in the world isnt just something you can try to ignore or expect somone to move on from? Maybe i view things differently because i could never ever give a child up for adoption. To me, adoption is worse than abortion. I would ahte the idea of having my child out there and them not knowing who their birth parents were. I really dont think that Ephram was punishing Amy. At least, he wasn't trying to. They were just on totally differnet pages after this. And Amy really wasn't getting it, imo. Had Ephram yelled at her, or blamed her, or lashed out, or whatever, then sure, I would be pissed at him, but he didn't do any of that. Like i said, he spoke very calmy and rationally with her the entire episode. He was trying to make her understand his perspective and what he wanted. Just because you know something is good for someone else doesnt mean you can make decisions for them. I think that my brother would be better off getting a decent job, to quit smoking pot, and to stop listening to conspiracy theorists, lol but at the end of the day its his life and he's gonna do what he chooses to do. Im not gonna go behidn his back and aply to jobs for him. Ephram didnt ask Andy to hide things from him and buy all that stuff. He didn't ask Amy to try to get a 2nd audition for him. They did those things on their own. But ti wasn't what he wanted anymore. He was in an entirely different headspace after what happened. __________________
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