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Old 06-05-2022, 12:50 AM
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2021-2022 Everwood Rewatch: Episode 3.17 - Fate Accomplis

Rewatch Overview

Fate Accomplis




SUMMARY

On the morning of his Juilliard audition in New York, Ephram makes plans to meet up with Madison for coffee, only to have his entire world come crashing down around him when she tells him that she was pregnant with their child. This devastating revelation causes Ephram to make decisions that will alter the course of his life. Meanwhile, back in Everwood, Amy cannot make heads or tails of what will happen to her relationship with Ephram once he learns the truth about Madison, and Dr. Abbott counsels a man whose son may die as a result of a hunting accident.

SEASON
3

EPISODE
17

AIR DATE
April 18, 2005

WRITER
Anna Fricke

DIRECTOR
Perry Lang

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Old 06-05-2022, 12:57 AM
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The title of this episode has always been interesting to me. Spirituality was always a big component of Everwood.

It is Sunday, May 22nd...

Two reasons for this early watch:

1. I had a strong urge to get through Madison dropping the bomb.

2. Stranger Things S4 gets started so I’ll be busy inhaling my second favorite series of all time.

Thoughts while watching

- Andy looks like he’s considering jumping off of the roof.

- I never noticed this before but it seems like Madison was ready to get up right before Ephram arrived. That is ultimately what she should have done but since she represents horrible energy it is not what ultimately transpired.

- I love how comfortable Ephram is around Madison: No feelings, indeed. Sorry, Madison, you were not that memorable.

- The fact that Madison mentions his audition tomorrow certainly indicates she’s very well aware of the fact that he has quite possibly the biggest piano moment of his life 24 hours later and yet… she does not care.

- Rose and back pain…

- Harold, quit ripping Bright. Demeaning him due to academic limbo and job instability is not helping, Harold.

- Bright owning Ephram’s package to Amy is hilarious. NYC Bagels. Yum.

- I still think Bright going to a community college right after high school should have been the plan all along. Even if he took one class to get his feet wet, it was better than working and fooling around. Bright needs more of a schedule to keep on track.

- Amy miserable due to getting into Harvard is hilarious, not to mention, a tad unrealistic.

- Ephram, don’t talk to Madison about Delia. She doesn’t deserve it. She sucks.

- Notice Madison asks Ephram if things are good with Andy. Ephram says yes. I am sure Madison loved this reality since it meant she could drop the bomb in an even more devastating way… right before the audition while knowing Ephram is content in his relationship with Andy. She’s a witch.

- I like that Ephram proudly brought up Amy to Madison even if she now understands his piano is great with an audition of his life a day away, his relationship with Andy is fine, he’s very happy with Amy. Madison couldn’t wait to pounce and blow it all up just to get revenge on Andy who tried to prevent this past disaster of a relationship which resulted in a pregnancy. Do you remember this, Madison?

- I love how Harold noticed Irv’s truck back at Edna (and Irv’s) place and seemed happy about this fact. Edna calling Harold “Nancy Drew” was outstanding.

- Just the little things… Ephram is back in NYC… he says… “Whatcha got?” during the meeting from hell with Madison. It just seems more NY than Everwood to talk like this and I love it.

- Chris Penn is guest starring. Once again, Everwood finds amazingly talented guest stars.

- Guns (even hunting) killing a kid. Everwood is intuitive and understood real life and future US nightmares.

- Madison’s older brother lives in NYC, but, yes, Madison didn’t have any support. Right.

- Unbelievable Ephram has to sit there and listen to Madison talking about life before dropping the bomb. Get on with it, darkness.

- I love how Ephram told her he’s over it, meaning their toxic communication of the past.

- Then how she just bluntly tells him…

- Ephram said he got her pregnant and asked her if he was too young or too stupid and that’s why she didn’t tell him… well, yes, Ephram, you were too young and immature. You were a boy having sex with an adult woman you got pregnant. That is sickening and wrong.

- You didn’t have good memories with Madison, Ephram. Every memory was illegal and toxic.

- It was a boy… a boy had a boy with an adult woman. Disgusting.

- There we have it… Madison drops the bomb. The ultimate shocking devastation. Hope you had fun going there, babysitter.

- Amy gets to deal with more torture wondering about the meeting plus the pregnancy. Amy should not be dealing with this as the Infinity necklace dangles from her neck.

- Finally we officially know Rose found out about the pregnancy but we didn’t see her told on screen, she found out off screen. This kind of bothers me. Amy is her daughter, Rose is her mother. Amy is in love with the boy who impregnated an adult woman. Amy needed her mother finding out about this from the start even if we’re not sure when Rose found out. It still would have been better if Harold was going to tell Amy about the pregnancy Rose was immediately there for Amy during the reveal.

- Wow, Amy talking about Madison, Ephram and the baby walking in the park is so heartbreaking. Or maybe a sign that they should be together while she touches the Infinity necklace. This is so sad. I am glad Rose was there for her daughter now, though. Someone needed to be there, and her mother is the best option.

- Why again is Ephram even meeting Madison? Why should Amy even be fine with him meeting an ex he was with not even a year and change ago?

- More fate and destiny displayed in this episode with Chris Penn’s character talking about how his son should have been skiing.

- All I want to mostly say about the hotel scene between Andy and Ephram is this is Greg Smith at his best. Treat, goes without saying and combined with Greg, they create magic together in this scene. When Ephram bumps into him you can almost imagine and visualize a loud bang, it is so powerful and heartbreakingly passionate and destructive. Wow. The storyline never should’ve happened in the first place but the reality is we were forced to deal with it, so I’m just going to say the actors were amazing and embrace this positive, the off the charts quality only Everwood can bring.

- I will say this, however… while Ephram has every right to feel betrayed I’m still wondering what he thought he’d be able to do with a son at his age? It’s just unbelievable to me that he’s talking as if he would have considered possibly taking the baby in? How, Ephram? What Madison did was literally the best option all around.

- Ruth is on the phone. I wonder why they didn’t stay with them from the beginning. I guess the writers thought they'd have get the actors back and couldn't go there or didn't want to go there since this storyline was never about Julia's parents.

- I love all the Amy and Rose moments in this one. Especially this exchange:

Quote:
[Cut to Bank - Rose and Amy are in a vault.]

ROSE: Thank you.

BANK PERSON: You're welcome.

AMY: Are we taking down the bank, 'cause I left my lock at home so...?

[Rose pulls out her safe deposit box and brings it over to the table. Amy follows her.]

AMY (CONT'D): Whatcha got in there?

ROSE: Oh, just some momentos. My mother's engagement ring. Aunt Mabel's opals. And of course, our Swiss bank account numbers.

AMY: Seriously?

ROSE: No.

[Rose pulls out a ticket from the box and hands it to Amy.]

AMY: What's this?

[Amy opens it up.]

AMY (CONT'D): A ticket to Rome.

ROSE: One way ticket. Did I ever tell you what I wanted my major to be?

AMY: Social sciences, right?

ROSE: No, what I wanted it to be. Art History. I loved museums. I used to pour over old books trying to imagine what the classics actually looked like.

AMY: That's so cool.

ROSE: Day of my high school graduation, I found myself at a crossroad of sorts, I could stay home and wait for your father to propose or I could go to Italy and explore. Return only after having mastered the language or worked in a famous art gallery both.

AMY: I'd be all about the gelato.

ROSE: That too. Needless to say, Italy won. So I packed my bags and I booked myself a tour and... The morning that I was supposed to leave, I opened the door and there was your father waiting for me on the front porch. On bended knee no less.

AMY: No...

ROSE: Yes. My mother was furious of course but, oh, I don't know, I was young and romantic and changing plans at the drop of a hat seemed exciting in it's own way.

AMY: So dad knew you were leaving and he didn't want to lose you. Good for him.

ROSE: Oh, he didn't know. I-I never told him I was going. I was afraid if I did, I would lose my nerve. I was just gonna call him when I got there.

AMY: So then he just showed up on your doorstep the day that you were supposed to leave. So I get it, you guys were destined to be together.

ROSE: That is exactly wrong. No, I made a decision on that day. I could've made the other one but I didn't - so here I am. I've been listening to you talk about your life as though it's something that's happening to you, that's not the case. It's the choices we make that fill in the details of our plan not the other way around. You understand?

AMY: So you're saying that I shouldn't retroactively break up with Ephram just to appease the Fates.

ROSE: I'll smack ya silly, if you do.

[Amy looks at the plane ticket again.]

AMY: You ever wonder what might have happened if you took that flight?

ROSE: I kept the ticket, didn't I?
^ Rose is talking about free will which I completely agree with. I do believe there is fate and destiny involved but certainly free will, as well.

- Bright was super smart realizing something was up with the way Kyle got shot.

- This scene between Andy and Ephram makes Ephram look evil. I am sorry, but Ephram is an absolute idiot not going through with the audition. Then he’s going to talk to Andy about judgment. What about Andy’s judgment when he told you not to date Madison? You never listened to your father then. Andy made a mistake not telling Ephram but the bottom line is there’s a full story here that both Ephram and Madison are ignoring. Neither listened to Andy from the start and if they would have a pregnancy wouldn't have transpired to want to blame Andy for! It’s amazing because I should feel sorry for Ephram here. I don’t. He’s still too immature to see the light and completely ridiculous not getting through the audition.

- Imagine being Frank and accidentally killing your son with a hunting rifle.

- Amazing that Ephram does not care at this moment what he’s going to say to Amy or anything regarding his relationship with Amy. Also, how incredibly selfish and rude he wouldn’t at least fake it in front of his sister and Edna at the airport. Absolutely immature behavior. Then again, everything concerning Madison had Ephram not caring about Delia so I guess this makes sense he wouldn’t care about her or even Edna, now either.

- The Harold and Bright kitchen scene is outstanding. Harold realizing life is short, he doesn’t want to lose his son then Bright revealing he’s going to college. I love this scene, especially the “basketball” while throwing away the food.

- Boo ya. LOL.

- As Andy and Ephram crumble Harold and Bright get a little closer.

- The last Ephram and Amy scene with Ephram asking Amy to help him was a tease as we know since Amy was set up to find out two seconds before he left for NYC and once he finds this out he’ll start turning on her too. But Greg and Emily are magnificent in this scene regardless.

- I despise Madison and the entire Ephram and Madison story. The biggest mistake of the series by far was when Madison entered the screen in S2. I will never feel differently. Madison is the biggest and only major mistake in this otherwise fairly flawless series.

Thoughts after watching the episode

I remember watching this episode for the first time and already understanding that Ephram would break up with Amy since I was on Fanbolt spoilers. So I knew this was taking place already. But I had way more empathy for everyone involved back then instead of Madison. This time around I feel way less for Ephram, to be honest. Maybe it's due to what is currently going on politically in this country when it comes to women's rights and how ultimately it should be her decision to decide what to do with a pregnancy. Or maybe I am just remembering how everything turns out. I was the most angry with Madison (of course) but Ephram as well. I did not like how he handled anything in this episode even if obviously he was shocked and felt betrayed.

It is understood that Juilliard and the road there is directly tied into both Madison and Andy so Ephram was ultimately going to go against this path regardless of if the audition happened or not. I can see why he doesn't want that anymore. In addition, he's always been way more into jazz instead of classical music. So it all makes sense. But it doesn't make me feel any less frustrated that Ephram looked very dark standing there next to Andy taking pleasure in not answering when they called his name for the audition. I just hated this scene so much. I don't like the fact that he didn't at least get to turn Juilliard down. He didn't go through with the audition because of finding everything out. I would have much rather seen him go through with the audition and then decided he wasn't going whether it was out of spite, or realized he didn't want to go for another reason. I just wanted him to have choices and his choice to even freaking audition was stripped away from him. Funny how the only one that truly loves and cares about him (Amy) was the only one that wanted to wait until after his audition because she knew how much it meant to him. Coincidence? I think not. On top of it all, Amy sacrificed and spent the entire year putting Ephram's preparation for this audition first before even the two of them which is why Ephram wanted her going with him to NYC in the first place. How does Ephram credit Amy for this loyalty and sacrifice? He ditches the audition.

Madison/Ephram: The only thing I liked about her mug in that scene was she clearly was able to witness that Ephram had moved on from her and he was happy with Amy. That is all. Otherwise, the way she went about telling him was vile, she babbled like a lunatic about nonsense then bluntly told him. I find it interesting that Ephram went from happy to see her to hating her. I am still trying to figure out why he'd be so happy to see her. They had a terrible relationship and she put him through hell. The way that she told him and his reaction... it is just irritating all around. I'm glad that Ephram told Madison about him and Amy. Like I said, this is the only part I liked, especially since Madison made fun of Amy in S2 basically because she was being her usual vile self. So it was good that she found out he ended up with Amy because Madison noticed they had some sort of connection way back in S2 which is why she was mean to Amy in the first place. She also saw them together going to prom too. Sorry, Madison, you couldn't stop their unstoppable connection. That's really all I have to say about this scene. That, and Ephram, while shocked, should have realized adoption (or even abortion) was still the best way to go. Even if Ephram found out ahead of time, sorry, dude, you still wouldn't have had a say in the manner (whether she wanted to abort) and you were even younger than you are now, which still qualifies as a teen boy. So no matter how betrayed you feel, a good outcome happened.

Harold/Rose: I loved hearing the Italy story and how Harold took care of Rose and the family in general. We know why Rose is feeling symptoms right now which is devastating but yes, I just love Harold and Rose. They have such a pure love story together. I love being reminded of their love story.

Rose/Amy: We do not get enough scenes between these two. Every scene they had in this episode was amazing. Rose was there for Amy and it was nice seeing Rose supportive of her relationship with Ephram even knowing Ephram impregnated an adult woman and they didn't know at this point what Madison decided to do. Rose was awesome.

Amy: I love her but have no idea how she got into Harvard. I hated that she worried every second about Ephram/Madison. I am still trying to figure out why Ephram felt so compelled to catch up with the babysitter in the first place minus for plot thanks to the writers. Amy never had to be okay with this stupid meet up in the first place. She was just fine (even if she worried and wondered if they should be together because of the pregnancy and not knowing what the adult decided to do with the baby she created with a boy), but of course scared of the adult vile darkness telling him about the pregnancy before the audition, which is precisely what she did. Amy's love for Ephram is pure and Eternal. Ephram should have never stopped embracing this because he almost lost her for good due to his selfishness and stupidity.

Andy/Ephram: As mentioned, the acting between Treat and Greg was brilliant. Greg did such a wonderful job showing Ephram's shock, pain and confusion. I had goosebumps the entire time. I guess I wish a lot of things would have gone down differently. Andy being more blunt about asking Madison to wait until after the audition, or Andy telling Ephram before he met Madison. But that is not how it went down. I wish Andy would have brought up how Ephram is not innocent when you pull it all together, he went against Andy's wishes to be with Madison in the first place, although maybe that wasn't the time to go there. Still, it amazes me how this is never brought up again or Ephram doesn't realize how stupid, immature and ridiculous he was not listening to his father who begged him to stay away from the poisonous babysitter. Ephram made these choices. Plus, Ephram was never going to have a say in what Madison decided either. Does he even realize this? Now as far as just knowing what she decided to do with the baby, sure, he is the father after all even as a minor boy. But overall, no matter when Ephram found out, what Madison decided to do was quite frankly not even something he could have controlled or even helped her decide really. Madison was making her own choice and for as much as I hate her, it is her body and her choice only. You can also tell Andy still doesn't regret his choice to keep it from him even if he's sorry. Andy always thought he was protecting Ephram. At the same time, even if I side with Andy on this more than many fans, I also thought it was a bit silly for Andy to think Ephram was going to instantly get over it. Although obviously Ephram ends up taking it to the ultimate extreme. Ephram showing up and having that conversation with Andy at the audition was really dark to me and cold, even so. I hated that scene. I also hated how Ephram refused to go in the car with Edna and Delia who did nothing to him. Why could you not fake it then leave after getting a ride back to Everwood? He never thought of Delia in S2 when it comes to Madison so there was horrible continuity I suppose. But overall, the acting between Treat and Greg was phenomenal, Andy still seems confident in his decision, Ephram hates him thinking he had a say in the matter as far as what Madison decided to do which is not true, and everything father/son built up is now torn down and it all took place in NYC. Good job, Madison.

Kyle/Harold/Bright: Kyle passing, the gun shot from mid-air victim really set Harold into a new appreciation for Bright. And to come home to see Bright doing something Rose told him to do, although three years before, but better late than never is Bright's habit of choice. They had a real conversation together and laughed, playing "hoops" while Bright said it will be good to move out because he's going to college next year. Outstanding. Harold looked so happy and proud of Bright in a way I do not think I've even seen him go there before. It was such a beautiful moment.

Ephram asking for Amy's help because now he is carrying the weight of the world was so.... moving. He feels he lost everything and of course thankfully he called Amy and told her about what happened, then shows up at her house because Amy called... but I would appreciate this scene much more if I didn't have to keep thinking about what comes next and how Ephram doesn't appreciate what he has with Amy because everything is going to blow up soon after he finds out Amy wanted to tell him, only found out two seconds before NYC, was planning on telling him immediately... but it does not matter. Ephram would punish Amy in the end. This scene was nicely constructed though and it showed their connection... during one of the worst moments in Ephram's life he ends up at Amy's house wanting to be with her. So many passionate emotions were going through both of their minds as they were desperately looking at each other in such an intense moment. The pain was so there in the eyes, hearts, minds. Purely amazing scene and right up there with all the legendary S1 moments between these two. Amy did step up to the plate, big time. Her selflessness was incredible. Their connection is ever present, like always. I just wish Ephram would have fully relied on this connection instead of what he decides to do after this episode.

To conclude, this is why Madison's part in all of this will infuriate me the most:

1. College Madison becomes romantically involved with high school boy, Ephram. Not to mention, this was the son of her employer she worked for inside his house. You could tell she hesitated and understood it was wrong from the start... you could tell it made her uncomfortable and there was some guilt as a result. She should have walked away from this horrible, illegal relationship before there was no turning back. She didn't.

2. College Madison becomes sexually involved with high school boy, Ephram. She had sex with a child. Period. I have never understood over the years how anyone can debate this. Ephram was not an adult. Madison was an adult. It was inappropriate and so wrong. Madison knew better but still went ahead with sexualizing her relationship with Ephram.

3: Going to Andy. I will always think she was ridiculous going to Andy in the first place. It clearly wasn't for confirmation. She could have received confirmation anywhere. After everything she pulled and went against Andy's requests over and over again, I still think she was dumb enough looking for support and guidance, which was a serious error in judgement on her part. Andy is Ephram's father, and that most certainly is going to be more important than Andy suddenly giving Madison any support over something so serious, wrong, illegal, and the very ultimate situation Andy was fighting so deeply to prevent. What was she thinking?

These are three things Madison did that I will never understand. She caused so much harm and damage. None of this includes what she does to Ephram in general during their illegal relationship, or when she chooses to tell Ephram that his minor self got her adult self pregnant. It was so repulsive and wrong in endless ways.

I feel relieved that the reveal happened during the rewatch. While I observe the quality Everwood so easily delivers, the past two episodes were a tough watch. Unfortunately, the next couple are just as tough when it comes to my favorite pairing, Ephram and Amy, and how Ephram treats Amy. But at least half the battle has been completed.

Last edited by jediwands; 06-06-2022 at 08:06 AM
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Old 06-06-2022, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
I will say this, however… while Ephram has every right to feel betrayed I’m still wondering what he thought he’d be able to do with a son at his age? It’s just unbelievable to me that he’s talking as if he would have considered possibly taking the baby in? How, Ephram? What Madison did was literally the best option all around.
The thing is though that he probably would have come to the same conclusion. If not abortion, I think he would have agreed with adoption, if even an open adoption. I think hes more hurt by the betrayal of her not telling him at all. Or of thinking she didnt want this support dealing with it. At the end of the day, he deserved to know. its not like Ephram was an abuser or something. He is a caring person and he should have been told. Yes, he was probably too young to be a father but I think he could have done with help if he really wanted to. Or even could have been there to help support Madison raise it.



Im going to bed now but i will post what I had wrtten from last week when I watched this.


This episode angered me SO DAMN MUCH.

Mostly, the fact that Madison had to tell Ephram about the baby BEFORE HIS AUDITION… WHYYYYY

It didnt make sense to me that Andy wouldnt have at least pleaded with her not to tell Ephram before the audition. Like, they had to both know how much they were going to mess him up??? I found that so damn selfish. One more hour would not hurt you???? I dont care that Ephram was getting upset at the cafe and she blurted it out, she should have kept quiet.

I felt so bad for Ephram because that is such a crappy thing to hear To find out you are a father and you missed the entire pregnancy, birth and decision over what to do?? knowing that the girl and your father knew ahead of time and didnt tell you. Like seriously, how crappy. I don’t blame Ephram one bit for skipping his audition and being pissed. Like, his whole life feels like its crumbling. What is he supposed to do in this situation? Pretend like he doesn’t care and forget about the kid? No way. If it were me, I would be immediately trying to figure out how to get custody of my child. Or at the very least be in that child’s life. Cuz this is totally unfair.

BTW is a woman even able to give up the rights to her child and put them up for adoption without the father??? I guess if she refused to say who the father was the hospital wouldn’t really know… Frankly Madison should be grateful because had Ephram told the truth, Madison could have been in deep **** with the law for having sex with a 16 year old.

I felt bad for Andy but at the same time, he had to know that Ephram wasn’t just going to forgive him so quickly. I found it silly that he asks Ephram If they could start over like a DAY later. Also where did Ephram stay the night?

I also dont blame Ephram if and when he finds out that Amy knew as well because that is an extra reason to be upset. To find out all these people knew about it before you would absolutely suck. Amy should have told him immediately after he got home. Which btw, they totally skipped the whole convo of Ephram telling Amy about it??? So strange.

The story with Harold and the kid in the hunting accident was horribly sad. Im sure the father was distraught after he died. If I were him, I would always blame myself for it. I did like that we got a sweet Harold/Bright scene at the end but idk something about Bright always comes off so flippant and insincere to me.

God, Im so mad at this show. They could have had Madison abort the baby instead, and then that way, it would have been mostly done! Like, Ephram still could have been upset about the decision or whatever, and that no one told him… but it wouldn’t have been this lingering looming thing for the rest of the series.

Top 5:
1. Ephram
2. Harold
3. Andy
4. Amy
5. Jake - seriously im shocked this dude hasnt annoyed me yet.

Though I would rather see nina then jake...

Last edited by jediwands; 06-06-2022 at 08:24 AM
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Old 06-06-2022, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Alexa (View Post)
The thing is though that he probably would have come to the same conclusion. If not abortion, I think he would have agreed with adoption, if even an open adoption. I think hes more hurt by the betrayal of her not telling him at all. Or of thinking she didnt want this support dealing with it. At the end of the day, he deserved to know. its not like Ephram was an abuser or something. He is a caring person and he should have been told. Yes, he was probably too young to be a father but I think he could have done with help if he really wanted to. Or even could have been there to help support Madison raise it.
You’re right. I was thinking as a minor he wouldn’t have as many rights but not true. Anything having to do with the minor label would have gotten Madison in trouble, not him. I remember when the show was live and Madison writes father unknown some speculated she went there for legal reasoning since she could have been prosecuted. Obviously it was mainly because she wasn’t planning on telling Ephram ever about the baby as well but she also knew she was risking legal troubles if she put his name and age down as the father.

Quote:
Im going to bed now but i will post what I had wrtten from last week when I watched this.
I watched a week early too.

Quote:
This episode angered me SO DAMN MUCH.

Mostly, the fact that Madison had to tell Ephram about the baby BEFORE HIS AUDITION… WHYYYYY
No reason for her to go there when she did. I will never agree with anyone who tries to make it seem like she was justified telling him when she did. BS.

Quote:
It didnt make sense to me that Andy wouldnt have at least pleaded with her not to tell Ephram before the audition. Like, they had to both know how much they were going to mess him up??? I found that so damn selfish. One more hour would not hurt you???? I dont care that Ephram was getting upset at the cafe and she blurted it out, she should have kept quiet.
100%. There were 1 million different options she could’ve taken. She supposedly can sing which I feel has always been debatable. Lol. Ephram never would have suspected a thing had she suggested they meet a second time after the audition just so she could hear about how it went. That way he got through the audition and then she could have told him. She couldn’t go there. It was always about revenge against Andy and Ephram was merely a chess piece to Madison in order to get the win.

Quote:
I felt so bad for Ephram because that is such a crappy thing to hear To find out you are a father and you missed the entire pregnancy, birth and decision over what to do?? knowing that the girl and your father knew ahead of time and didnt tell you. Like seriously, how crappy. I don’t blame Ephram one bit for skipping his audition and being pissed. Like, his whole life feels like its crumbling. What is he supposed to do in this situation? Pretend like he doesn’t care and forget about the kid? No way. If it were me, I would be immediately trying to figure out how to get custody of my child. Or at the very least be in that child’s life. Cuz this is totally unfair.
That’s so true. Like you already stated, Ephram would have most likely come to the conclusion that what Madison did was the right choice (if not abortion). We actually know he gets there because he makes that call to her later on pretty much telling her as much, that she made the right choice. Of course speculation is if S5 happened she was trying to get the baby back. But how the storyline played out, in the end, Ephram knew the right choice was made. He wasn’t allowed to get there slowly, however.

Quote:
BTW is a woman even able to give up the rights to her child and put them up for adoption without the father??? I guess if she refused to say who the father was the hospital wouldn’t really know… Frankly Madison should be grateful because had Ephram told the truth, Madison could have been in deep **** with the law for having sex with a 16 year old.
YES. Exactly. People speculated when the series was live maybe Madison deliberately didn’t want the father revealed because legally she could have been prosecuted. If she had an abortion, the father never would have been revealed. So maybe she was thinking I will have the baby because for whatever reason she couldn’t have an abortion, but I’m also not going to get myself in trouble by revealing a boy is the father. LOL. I don’t know how any of this works but if she would have revealed who the father was could the courts have tracked Ephram down first to see if he wanted to legally take care of the baby? But it’s a certainty if Madison reveals the father on that document legally she could have been in serious trouble with the law.

Quote:
I felt bad for Andy but at the same time, he had to know that Ephram wasn’t just going to forgive him so quickly. I found it silly that he asks Ephram If they could start over like a DAY later. Also where did Ephram stay the night?
It was definitely silly of Andy to think they could immediately move on without a slight pause in digesting everything. Good question about Ephram… maybe walked around all night, went to an all-night diner, or stayed at his maternal grandparents place?

Quote:
I also dont blame Ephram if and when he finds out that Amy knew as well because that is an extra reason to be upset. To find out all these people knew about it before you would absolutely suck. Amy should have told him immediately after he got home. Which btw, they totally skipped the whole convo of Ephram telling Amy about it??? So strange.

The story with Harold and the kid in the hunting accident was horribly sad. Im sure the father was distraught after he died. If I were him, I would always blame myself for it. I did like that we got a sweet Harold/Bright scene at the end but idk something about Bright always comes off so flippant and insincere to me.

God, Im so mad at this show. They could have had Madison abort the baby instead, and then that way, it would have been mostly done! Like, Ephram still could have been upset about the decision or whatever, and that no one told him… but it wouldn’t have been this lingering looming thing for the rest of the series.
All of this.

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Top 5:
1. Ephram
2. Harold
3. Andy
4. Amy
5. Jake - seriously im shocked this dude hasnt annoyed me yet.

Though I would rather see nina then jake...
Good list and very true about Jake. I remember being way more annoyed by him in previous rewatches but it’s a certainty I’ll eventually get there even in this one.
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Old 06-06-2022, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by jediwands (View Post)


- I never noticed this before but it seems like Madison was ready to get up right before Ephram arrived. That is ultimately what she should have done but since she represents horrible energy it is not what ultimately transpired.
I noticed that too, but figured it was because Ephram was late and Madison thought he wasn't coming. Damn...wish that traffic would have been worse and Ephram showed up after Madison left.

Quote:
- I love how comfortable Ephram is around Madison: No feelings, indeed. Sorry, Madison, you were not that memorable.
Ephram grew up and his needs have been replaced by love and not lust.

-
Quote:
The fact that Madison mentions his audition tomorrow certainly indicates she’s very well aware of the fact that he has quite possibly the biggest piano moment of his life 24 hours later and yet… she does not care.
What I did notice this time is that Madison really didn't want to tell Ephram, but he kept pressing and pressing. And then Ephram accused Madison of thinking of him as a kid and didn't want to talk about anything important with him. I really believe that Madison wanted to reassure Ephram that this was not the case....hence she told him!

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- Rose and back pain…
We know what that means.

Quote:
- Harold, quit ripping Bright. Demeaning him due to academic limbo and job instability is not helping, Harold.
Harold realized this and appreciated Bright more after his friend lost his son. What I was wondering is how Bright is expected to pay rent in a new apartment when he doesn't have a job..

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- Bright owning Ephram’s package to Amy is hilarious. NYC Bagels. Yum.
He needs to put them in the freezer because they'll be stale by the next day! LOL

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- I still think Bright going to a community college right after high school should have been the plan all along. Even if he took one class to get his feet wet, it was better than working and fooling around. Bright needs more of a schedule to keep on track.
He finally has a plan....thank goodness!

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- Amy miserable due to getting into Harvard is hilarious, not to mention, a tad unrealistic
.
Very unrealistic.
Quote:
- Notice Madison asks Ephram if things are good with Andy. Ephram says yes. I am sure Madison loved this reality since it meant she could drop the bomb in an even more devastating way… right before the audition while knowing Ephram is content in his relationship with Andy. She’s a witch
.
Do you think that after hearing this Madison decided not to tell Ephram, but was pushed to do it by Ephram?

Quote:
- Just the little things… Ephram is back in NYC… he says… “Whatcha got?” during the meeting from hell with Madison. It just seems more NY than Everwood to talk like this and I love it.
Yup!

Quote:
- Madison’s older brother lives in NYC, but, yes, Madison didn’t have any support. Right
.
And I'm sure her brother is doing very well having an nice apartment there.

- Unbelievable Ephram has to sit there and listen to Madison talking about life before dropping the bomb. Get on with it, darkness.


Quote:
- Amy gets to deal with more torture wondering about the meeting plus the pregnancy. Amy should not be dealing with this as the Infinity necklace dangles from her neck.
She hasn't once thought about herself since hearing the news about the pregnancy. Amy's whole focus is on Ephram.

Quote:
- More fate and destiny displayed in this episode with Chris Penn’s character talking about how his son should have been skiing.
I'm embarrassed to say that I don't know who Chris Penn is.

-
Quote:
All I want to mostly say about the hotel scene between Andy and Ephram is this is Greg Smith at his best. Treat, goes without saying and combined with Greg, they create magic together in this scene. When Ephram bumps into him you can almost imagine and visualize a loud bang, it is so powerful and heartbreakingly passionate and destructive. Wow. The storyline never should’ve happened in the first place but the reality is we were forced to deal with it, so I’m just going to say the actors were amazing and embrace this positive, the off the charts quality only Everwood can bring.
I wish that Andy did not tell Ephram that Madison came to him first about the Pregnancy. I know he did it because Ephram was demonstrating so much loathing toward Madison and Andy wanted to take that hate about. Instead...he cause more of the hate to be directed at him.

Quote:
-What Madison did was literally the best option all around
.
Totally agree. I guess Ephram wanted the respect of having be a part of the decision.


Quote:
- Bright was super smart realizing something was up with the way Kyle got shot.
Bright figured it out and got Harold thinking.

Quote:
- This scene between Andy and Ephram makes Ephram look evil. I am sorry, but Ephram is an absolute idiot not going through with the audition. Then he’s going to talk to Andy about judgment. What about Andy’s judgment when he told you not to date Madison? You never listened to your father then. Andy made a mistake not telling Ephram but the bottom line is there’s a full story here that both Ephram and Madison are ignoring. Neither listened to Andy from the start and if they would have a pregnancy wouldn't have transpired to want to blame Andy for! It’s amazing because I should feel sorry for Ephram here. I don’t. He’s still too immature to see the light and completely ridiculous not getting through the audition.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Ephram shot himself in the foot to spite his face.
Ephram acted as if auditioning for Julliard was all Andy's idea and Andy pushed Ephram toward this idea by building a studio.
That's not true! This has always been Ephram dream, and not auditioning would have hurt Ephram even more!
I'm thinking that even though Ephram found out about the baby from Madison....if Andy had not revealed that she came to him first...Ephram would not have abandoned the audition.


Quote:
- The last Ephram and Amy scene with Ephram asking Amy to help him was a tease as we know since Amy was set up to find out two seconds before he left for NYC and once he finds this out he’ll start turning on her too. But Greg and Emily are magnificent in this scene regardless.
That's exactly what I was thinking. It was kind of like the Ephram/Andy balcony scene. You just know the heartache that is going to ensue.

-
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Old 06-06-2022, 11:29 AM
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The thing is though that he probably would have come to the same conclusion. If not abortion, I think he would have agreed with adoption, if even an open adoption. I think hes more hurt by the betrayal of her not telling him at all. Or of thinking she didnt want this support dealing with it. At the end of the day, he deserved to know. its not like Ephram was an abuser or something. He is a caring person and he should have been told. Yes, he was probably too young to be a father but I think he could have done with help if he really wanted to. Or even could have been there to help support Madison raise it.
Ephram felt totally disrespected. I agree that he and Madison would have discussed this together and made the best possible decision as to what to do. Ephram is mature enough to do this, but felt that no one (Madison or Andy) considered him this way.

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I felt bad for Andy but at the same time, he had to know that Ephram wasn’t just going to forgive him so quickly. I found it silly that he asks Ephram If they could start over like a DAY later. Also where did Ephram stay the night?
I was wondering the same thing. He looked darn good having walked around all night! He does have a credit card, so he most likely got a hotel room.
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Old 06-06-2022, 11:36 AM
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Oh...Sean Penn's brother! lol
He died shortly after in 2006.
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Old 06-06-2022, 12:30 PM
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Oh...Sean Penn's brother! lol
He died shortly after in 2006.
Wow, he did? I didn't know that!
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Old 06-06-2022, 12:32 PM
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Just looked it up:

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Death
Penn was found dead in his Santa Monica apartment on January 24, 2006, at the age of 40. An autopsy and subsequent toxicology report performed by a Los Angeles County medical examiner revealed the primary cause of death was heart disease. The report also noted that the prescription drug promethazine with codeine and an enlarged heart were possible contributing factors to his death.[8] The toxicology report revealed that valium, morphine, marijuana and an elevated level of codeine were found in his bloodstream.[9] Penn gained considerable weight throughout the 1990s. Sean Penn said publicly in an interview on Larry King Live that his brother probably died because of his weight.[10]

Penn's gravesite is at Holy Cross Cemetery in Culver City, California.
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Old 06-06-2022, 02:28 PM
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Ephram felt totally disrespected. I agree that he and Madison would have discussed this together and made the best possible decision as to what to do. Ephram is mature enough to do this, but felt that no one (Madison or Andy) considered him this way.


I was wondering the same thing. He looked darn good having walked around all night! He does have a credit card, so he most likely got a hotel room.
I just couldn’t imagine what they would have done had Ephram decided to keep the baby. Drop out of school? It was clear Madison did not want to keep the baby or else she would have. So would Ephram have officially taken over full parenting duties at age 16? Doesn’t it seem ridiculous? He couldn’t do anything remotely like that without Andy’s help. He was 15/16 years old. Boys mature more slowly so think even younger. I know he was mad but Madison did the right thing in the end for her and for him even if of course he should have found out about the situation way before he did.

Oh yeah he could have gotten a hotel room on his own too.
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Old 06-06-2022, 03:38 PM
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I noticed that too, but figured it was because Ephram was late and Madison thought he wasn't coming. Damn...wish that traffic would have been worse and Ephram showed up after Madison left.
That’s true. It wasn’t about her having second thoughts, probably was due to time.

Quote:
Ephram grew up and his needs have been replaced by love and not lust.
Well said.

Quote:
What I did notice this time is that Madison really didn't want to tell Ephram, but he kept pressing and pressing. And then Ephram accused Madison of thinking of him as a kid and didn't want to talk about anything important with him. I really believe that Madison wanted to reassure Ephram that this was not the case....hence she told him!
That’s a good point.

I also hate to admit it but she actually did not mention Andy’s name at all. Granted, she had to have known that eventually Andy’s role would have been revealed but she never told Ephram about Andy.

Quote:
We know what that means.


Quote:
Harold realized this and appreciated Bright more after his friend lost his son. What I was wondering is how Bright is expected to pay rent in a new apartment when he doesn't have a job..
That was super strange. Right? I don't remember... did he get an apartment on or off campus? I don't really remember right now? Would it have been part of his tuition? Back then it might have been. I know now it certainly is not given that both Anna and Sara had/have apartments right off campus.

Quote:
He needs to put them in the freezer because they'll be stale by the next day! LOL


Quote:
He finally has a plan....thank goodness!
Yes!

Quote:
Very unrealistic.


Quote:
Do you think that after hearing this Madison decided not to tell Ephram, but was pushed to do it by Ephram?
Kind of. If I was brave enough I might rewatch again and see.

What I did finally notice or think about is that she never told Ephram about Andy either even if she knew Ephram would eventually find out about Andy's role. But it does make me think overall about this... Ephram did push her into it a bit... I never noticed her hesitancy before! I guess I cringe so much watching this moment I didn't study it closely enough!

Quote:
Yup!

.
And I'm sure her brother is doing very well having an nice apartment there.
Exactly.

Quote:
She hasn't once thought about herself since hearing the news about the pregnancy. Amy's whole focus is on Ephram.
Right.

Quote:
I'm embarrassed to say that I don't know who Chris Penn is.
You figured it out he passed away before I did.

Quote:
I wish that Andy did not tell Ephram that Madison came to him first about the Pregnancy. I know he did it because Ephram was demonstrating so much loathing toward Madison and Andy wanted to take that hate about. Instead...he cause more of the hate to be directed at him.
That's so true.

Quote:
Totally agree. I guess Ephram wanted the respect of having be a part of the decision.
Yeah and up thread I messed up. I was thinking stupidly if he was a minor he wouldn't have a say regardless which isn't true. I guess the good news is I've never been in this position before as you can see.

Quote:
Bright figured it out and got Harold thinking.
Bright has moments. He was so wise during the ditch day with Ephram and Hannah and Amy. He was very wise with Hannah. And here as well.

Quote:
I was thinking the exact same thing. Ephram shot himself in the foot to spite his face.
Ephram acted as if auditioning for Julliard was all Andy's idea and Andy pushed Ephram toward this idea by building a studio.
That's not true! This has always been Ephram dream, and not auditioning would have hurt Ephram even more!
I'm thinking that even though Ephram found out about the baby from Madison....if Andy had not revealed that she came to him first...Ephram would not have abandoned the audition.



That's exactly what I was thinking. It was kind of like the Ephram/Andy balcony scene. You just know the heartache that is going to ensue.
Exactly right.

Last edited by jediwands; 06-06-2022 at 03:46 PM
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Old 06-07-2022, 02:06 AM
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But like did anyone find it so weird that Ephram went to Amys and they both knew that she already knew??? I was so confused... Thent hey mentioned the phonecall... So apparently he told her over hte phone about madison (even though she already knew) and she pretended she didnt know? i found it so werid that they skipped that entire conversation???
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Old 06-07-2022, 04:50 AM
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But like did anyone find it so weird that Ephram went to Amys and they both knew that she already knew??? I was so confused... Thent hey mentioned the phonecall... So apparently he told her over hte phone about madison (even though she already knew) and she pretended she didnt know? i found it so werid that they skipped that entire conversation???
I found it weird as well! Andy had to make many many phone calls!
I'm thinking that maybe Amy called Ephram to ask how the audition went and he told her.

Ruth also must have known since she called Andy to ask him if he had found Ephram.
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Old 06-07-2022, 05:01 AM
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I just couldn’t imagine what they would have done had Ephram decided to keep the baby. Drop out of school? It was clear Madison did not want to keep the baby or else she would have. So would Ephram have officially taken over full parenting duties at age 16? Doesn’t it seem ridiculous? He couldn’t do anything remotely like that without Andy’s help. He was 15/16 years old. Boys mature more slowly so think even younger. I know he was mad but Madison did the right thing in the end for her and for him even if of course he should have found out about the situation way before he did.
.
You never know what Ephram would have wanted to do. I remember him feeling that his son would think that no one cared about him..(like Ephram believed about his dad while growing up), so he possibly could have wanted to keep the baby with or without Madison.
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Old 06-07-2022, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by everwoodfan52 (View Post)
You never know what Ephram would have wanted to do. I remember him feeling that his son would think that no one cared about him..(like Ephram believed about his dad while growing up), so he possibly could have wanted to keep the baby with or without Madison.
Kind of like the deer in Deer God. We saw how that story turned out regarding the true home for the deer.
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