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Old 05-14-2022, 05:58 AM
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2021-2022 Everwood Rewatch: Episode 3.15 - Surprise

Rewatch Overview

Surprise





SUMMARY

Just as they have become somewhat comfortable with their new relationship, Andy and Amanda receive word that Amanda's husband, John, has experienced a miraculous breakthrough in his recovery. Meanwhile, Amy learns the truth about why Madison really left town, an elated Ephram is offered an audition at Juilliard, Hannah questions whether she is emotionally prepared to take the test for Huntington's Disease, and Bright is accused of sexual misconduct in the workplace.

SEASON
3

EPISODE
15

AIR DATE
February 14, 2005

WRITER
Sherri Cooper

DIRECTOR
Tom Amandes

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Old 05-14-2022, 06:00 AM
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Another Season 1-like episode in both quality and energy.

Andy/Amanda

Amanda, the wicked witch has learned Harry Potter Wizardry, grabbing a wand, broom, and flown away. Time to celebrate. That said, the ending of this debacle did nothing to redeem either character. It is obvious both Andy and Amanda would have been happy to continue this sick relationship indefinitely. It didn't end because one of them woke up and accepted the moral implications of what they were doing; it ended out of guilt, plain and simple. Amanda knew that Charlie's acceptance of her affair would vanish the moment he saw his father. So, she realized what she had to do. Andy, you're still an idiot, and you have no idea what nightmare is coming your way.

Ephram/Amy

What a pleasure it was to see these two be in love in such a heartfelt way with their emotional, physical and spiritual intimacy swirling around beautifully. Their hugs and light touches were crammed with emotion and, their blazing emotional chemistry all mixed in. Light kisses, hugs, banter, intense love declarations, it was all there. And at the very end we were cheated out of what was obviously going to be a very tender embrace as the camera slid off them. But it was beautiful the way it was displayed: Soulmates in love, and I believe the extra punch was in there to remind the audience of their eternal love, as an optimistic nod was given to the audience that they will survive Babygate eventually, and even if rough times are ahead, they will always come back to each other.

Amy

I still can’t get over how much she has been through. Colin passing, falling in love with Ephram, severe situational depression, and she has become so mature and endearing. The way she handled the bombshell… the old Amy would have freaked out. Amy took the news with no self-pity; it wasn't all about her; her tears were for herself and Ephram and their future, not just herself; there was justifiable angst, but not anger; no screaming at her Dad for not telling her earlier. Her struggles to maintain a happy face for Ephram were mesmerizing, and as genuine a gesture of love as you could ever want to see. And, while carrying inside this dreadful news, she was still there for Hannah, too. Mature Amy. I loved her when she was rough around the edges and a typical teen girl. I love her even more now. She had every right even mildly to make this about her but she didn’t go there. I find it incredible. As we understand, she still never makes it about her and how she’s feeling knowing the love of her life has a child out there with an adult babysitter. Amy is amazing and the love she has for Ephram can be demonstrated in this episode to perfection. Selfless love regarding the pregnancy and selfless love making sure Ephram gets through the audition because she’s only thinking of him.

Emily? Award winning. Emily acted the hell out of these scenes. Watching the emotions flash across Amy's face as her father told her the news; watching her struggles to maintain the happy facade for Ephram; she was just a pleasure to watch. The best younger actress I have ever seen and I stand by that revelation decades later.

Harold

They really showed how torn Harold had been about keeping his knowledge from Amy for so long. Now, if he can get by telling Rose. I only wish Harold would show some of these traits in his treatment of Bright. Now a strong case can be made Harold had no business telling Amy when he did. In fact, while it's clear the conversation and what Amy was saying about Hannah made him receive an internal flash of intuition encouraging him to go there, the timing of telling Amy can be hotly debated. Again, it is understandable why Harold felt the need to go there given his daughter's words, but at the same time, Amy was put in such an uncomfortable position given the timing and what she was expected or not expected to do with this information. A case can be made regardless of if Amy knew or not, Ephram still would have pulled away from her temporarily. That is very possible. But how it played out we see Amy's selfless love just wanting Ephram to get through the audition and she would carry the burden of shock and pain on her own until then. This is ultimately what caused Ephram to ridiculously lash out at Amy, however, and allow a temporary break up.

As a result, I am quite conflicted over this situation. I understand why Harold felt compelled to tell her when he did, but the timing couldn't have been more torturous for Amy personally and Ephram and Amy, in general.

Delia

She was great in this one even if she wasn't on the screen very much. First, with her warning whistle, then by slam-hugging her brother, and finally by taking advantage of her opportunity to lay a big hug on Bright. Loved it! Andy, remember your lovely daughter? You should have been spending time with her instead of the witch that got on her broomstick and finally flew away.

Bright and Rose/Bright

I did feel bad for Bright, and maybe the slap was a bit too much, but that was a wake-up call he might have needed. However, I loved that Rose accepted responsibility for falling for his charm and personality all of these years and not teaching him the proper way to treat women and everything else for that matter. I loved that she took responsibility for this. Yes, it was a joint failure by both Rose and Harold but Rose took accountability for being soft with him and Bright has demonstrated plenty of times even playing his mother as a result since he understands this reality.

It might be due to what is happening to women at the filthy hands of the Republican Party in the present, but I strongly didn't appreciate Bright indirectly calling Jillian a bitch. He said "bitch mood" but don't be using that word at all, Bright. And think before you casually have sex, please. Maybe caring about the woman after you get her into bed would be the easiest, best solution. Rose and Harold should have been there for him in the past, that is a definite. But at the same time, it probably should be common sense you don't treat women in this manner. It is also the pattern with Bright. He obviously didn't learn from his previous job in a closest half naked with a girl/woman. Yes, the general rule is you do not date or sleep with your coworkers. Not everyone follows this but most do it in a mature way. Half naked in a closet with one and then sending flirty messages to the other during office hours (as his boss pointed out) and then treating her like a casual fling after sex with her is simply not good thinking, Bright. Rose was correct firing him. This was not a "learning process" for Bright as he continued to work. His parents were involved and their names were on the line in a small town. Unacceptable. He told Ephram he really liked the job and was good at the job. Well, you didn't fully care about your job, Bright, or else it would have come first and you would have been more careful.

All that said, the sexual harassment allegations were a bit over the top as she was clearly upset over how he treated her after they had sex. He was too cavalier with the feelings of the person he was with. But on the other hand it was a dose of cold water he probably did need sprinkled on his head. His apology to her wasn't the best one he could have produced either. It was average but as he was walking away I am not really sure I love his grin. I don't understand why he looked so happy, almost like he got away with something. If that apology was sincere he would have had more of a Hannah response after she received the news about her blood test... content but still taking things very seriously. Bright didn't go there at all. We understand what he does to Hannah later on as well so this is why I cannot fully say he understands the consequences of his actions.

Bright/Hannah

His hug briefly brought Hannah out of her "results-shock" which was so awesome. I loved Bright's response to the news and also appreciate how Hannah played the results. She wasn't jumping around in celebration initially. It was a big deal and she even mentioned there's survivors guilt too. She knows it could have gone the other way so she understands how serious all of this is. She also has to be concerned about the rest of her family and what their status might be. I thought it was wonderful she asked Bright if she could be alone to take it all in as Bright was celebrating with a nice little yell while walking away. Beautiful moment.

Hannah

Sarah gave another brilliant performance. I was glad they made taking the test a big, involved procedure, taking into account the full range of emotional burdens, whatever the results. That seemed very realistic. As were Hannah's struggles with the decision. Hannah did need Harold as a father figure. And he came through for her. And her thanking him for butting in was very Hannah-like. The fact that she was rocked so profoundly at the result also seemed spot-on.

Isn't it interesting how front porches figure in Hannah's ability to see a future? It looked like that was happening again in this episode. This is another demonstration of the magic of Everwood.

Amy/Hannah

I love their friendship so much. Amy telling Hannah she would put her first even over seeing Ephram immediately at the surprise party was beautiful. This is the most beautiful friendship of the series. It took me this rewatch to truly see it.

Last Thoughts

1. Irv hasn't been around in such a long time. Thanks, Amanda.
2. Loved the whole idea of Edna's motorcycle club.
3. I appreciate that Ephram and Amy received a lot of attention in this one because I’m convinced it was to tell the audience not to worry, they are making it to the finish line.
4. Tom Amandes not only had time to effortlessly show his acting talent, but he also brilliantly directed this episode.
5. Merrilyn Gann hardly has the opportunity as Rose to do a scene like the passionate one between Rose and Bright and she was phenomenal. What an actress.
6. I thought it was incredibly contrived that Amy wanted Madison invited to Ephram's party. Let's be clear... they are your ex for a reason. Amy is not required to be fine with an adult woman who was with Ephram (and ended up getting pregnant which is all kinds of breaking the law). Especially due to the Madison band lie, it was especially ridiculous we had to see Amy acting like it was her job to be okay with Ephram and Madison being friends. No. Never.
7. I also thought it was a bit too much poking fun at Ephram not having many friends. He is just fine in the friend and family department. Will couldn't attend, Jake, Nina and Sam were out of town, Irv has vanished, Edna had her bike, Wendell could have been invited if he wasn't dismissed by the writers. Ephram is best friends with Bright, good friends with Hannah, Amy is the love of his life, and they were all there for him, not to mention all of his family. He wasn't a loner, it was bizarre how they were commenting on this. Amy and Bright pretty much despise all of their "popular" friends now and only hang with Ephram and Hannah.
8. Emily rocked the single tear effect. Anyone notice how she timed that tear just perfectly? And when Amy was just staring at Ephram after his party? Just staring. Amy, with the secret, the tear, and the love? Beyond powerful stuff.
9. Ephram and Amy were very touchy with the hand holding, hugs, kisses on the cheek/head, Ephram leaning in very closely, in almost a seductive way… Ephram grabbing hold of her and his touching of her shirt to straighten it out, etc. Ephram pointedly telling how how much he loved her. Their looks were so flirty and full of love, just how Ephram said things to Amy was so romantically passionate. And Amy struggling with the, "I know you do." I loved it. These two are soulmates. They always find a way as we know.

A really good, high quality episode even if it's devastating given Amy finding out about the pregnancy and what is right around the corner for all of our favorite characters.

ETA: I reread the episode discussion when the show was live and just saw how some people thought Harold was justified to tell Amy when he did. But I remember mentioning how he should have told her earlier even and it was a timing thing. Like Madison could have waited to tell Ephram after his audition, Harold could have waited to tell Amy until the right time so she wasn't put in a terrible position.

I said this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by M, right after episode aired February 14, 2005
Oh, I think Harold should have told Amy the minute he found out at the beginning of S3. Absolutely. I'm talking about the timing now. He has waited forever. He even let her sleep with Ephram knowing full well that the Madison pregnancy was looming in the background. Again, I'm talking about the timing. He delayed this long. What would it have taken to have gone to Andy immediately upon his discussion with Amy, say, the very next day, and DEMANDED that Andy tell Ephram because he was CERTAINLY telling Amy that very day and then E/A could have found out at the same time from their fathers, and Amy wouldn't now be in a position where she has to struggle with the knowledge on her own and make decisions on when/if to tell Ephram. All I'm saying is Harold could have delayed it until the very next morning and gone to Andy to tell him he was telling Amy. Of course the talk that Harold had to Andy at the party more than confirmed that he was going to tell Andy that he told Amy. I was just thinking that the two talks could have happened together.

I'm certainly overjoyed that Harold decided to do the right thing. I just wish that Amy didn't have to find out before Ephram as I think it only puts one more strike against them as Ephram could very well feel betrayed that Amy found out before him and didn't tell him even though Amy did this out of love. She kept the pain to herself and decided not to tell him at this moment for fear of ruining his audition. So she decided to suck it up and unselfishly decides to keep this knowledge, at least for a short while, to herself. I just hope that Ephram understands Amy's reasoning and how unselfish her love for him really is. And like I said, Harold waited how long to tell her? What was about 12 more hours until the morning whenever he could have talked with Andy? Oh well, either way, I'm glad that Harold finally told Amy what he should have told her right away. Then again, Harold should have never been in this predicament in the first place had Andy done the right thing and told Ephram straight up whenever Madison first found out she was pregnant.

Last edited by jediwands; 05-14-2022 at 07:48 AM
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Old 05-14-2022, 07:10 AM
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^ I posted the new episode early because I am going out tonight with my niece (maybe overnight) so wanted to get the episode up and post my thoughts early.

Of course, everyone, take your time and watch at your convenience!
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Old 05-14-2022, 11:33 PM
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I watched this last week actually because it was the last ep on my dvd so I just finished it lol.


Quote:
Ephram and Amy were very touchy with the hand holding, hugs, kisses on the cheek/head, Ephram leaning in very closely, in almost a seductive way… Ephram grabbing hold of her and his touching of her shirt to straighten it out, etc.
TV couples definitely need more of these moments!

I did read your post Michelle, I am just too exhausted to reply right now, but i agree with a lot of what you said, and I will post my initial thought I wrote last week:



UGH Amy knows about Madison. I get why Harold felt the need to tell her but really it wasn’t his place. He decided to keep this secret for Andy and IMO Ephram deserved to know about it first. But I am glad thatt Amy knows Ephram doesn’t know about it so its not like its a secret he kept from her. I also found it OOC for Amy to want to invite Madison in the first place.

It was cute that Hannah decided to get the test and wanted Harold to go with her. I just wish we had seen more Harold/Hannah scenes before this one episode to make it a bit more impactful. Also, Bright is so sweet with Hannah, even though I dont like them that much I do think they were being written very well.’

Bright’s storyline imo was pretty intense. I am a bit on the fence about it. On the one hand, I dont think there is anything wrong with someone wanting to “have fun” and mess around as long as they are clear to their partners. But it seems that maybe Bright has led quite a few women on. I do think this woman at his work was just as to blame though for their indiscretions. She sent emails too? And it does seem that she was just mad he didnt like her and was trying to retaliate. HOWEVER, i understand why Rose was so hurt by it all. The way Bright was excusing his behavior and calling her a bitch and dismissing his actions was gross. I dont think Rose should have slapped him but I do like her standing up to him and telling him to do better. Firing him imo felt a bit extreme but I Get why. I was glad Bright ended up apologizing to the girl but it felt a bit blasé and not that sincere.

Andy and Amanda, omg what a freaking mess! She wanted a divorce and failed to tell Andy this the entire time they were dating??? Then decides to get one… but then, John wakes up, which is amazing, but it doesn't change what happened in their relationship before his accident!? And if this thing with Andy was as special and serious as they made it out to be then why the hell would she just give that up and not fight for it? It kinda proves it really was just a fling for her. It just kinda felt like she was doing it for her son, and not really for her, which I dont like. But, I dont want them together anyways, so I'm not all that sad. The break up scene was just so quick and random though after all they went through.

Top 5:
1. Rose
2. Amy
3. Harold despite telling Amy too early.
4. Hannah
5. Andy
Also, I looked back on my old thoughts and they were EXACLY the same… WEIRD.

Last edited by Alexa; 05-14-2022 at 11:40 PM
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Old 05-15-2022, 09:46 AM
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I thought that this was an incredibly well-done and pivotal episode that set the stage for the rest of Season Three, as major changes took place and a secret was revealed that would have devastating consequences for Amy Abbott and the boy she loved and inspired, Ephram Brown.

This episode started out on an outwardly jubilant note as Amy threw a surprise party for Ephram, who had been invited to audition for Julliard, but what should have been a joyous occasion for her was overshadowed by some devasting news that she had learned, news which would change her life and shatter her happy relationship with Ephram. The theme of this episode was surprise, and the types of surprises that some key characters received varied, but those surprises would change their lives forever.

We then saw the show flash back to the previous week where Ephram told Amy that he had found out that he had gotten the audition for Julliard, and they were both overjoyed and excited at this news, but Harold came out and said that they were taking Hannah to the clinic in Denver to get her Huntington’s test, which Ephram had understandably forgotten about given the news that he had received, and Ephram told Amy to tell Hannah that he said good luck and, and that he was thinking about her.

Meanwhile, we saw Rose tell Bright, who was reading some type of “Men’s Magazine,” that she had received a call from Human Resources that a woman named Jillian had filed a sexual misconduct complaint about him, and they were going to have a formal hearing about the matter that they both had to attend, but Bright said that him and Jillian had gone out on a few dates and that was it, and Rose told him that he wasn’t supposed to date co-workers, but Bright made light of the whole issue.

At the clinic in Denver we saw a counselor caution Hannah about getting a test to see if she had the gene to get Huntington’s Disease, saying that she simply couldn’t take the test, but she had to go through a series of preliminary evaluations to see if she would be able to handle the news if her test determined that she did, in fact, have the gene to get Huntington’s Disease.

We saw Amy tell Harold that she wanted to have a surprise party for Ephram to celebrate his getting an audition for Julliard, and she mentioned inviting Madison, indicating that she had come to terms with Ephram’s relationship with Madison, but Harold didn’t seem happy at the prospect, for reasons he would reveal to Amy later in the episode.

We then saw Amy at Amanda’s house and my stomach turned once again as they continued their illicit affair and Amanda told him that she had drawn up the preliminary paperwork to divorce John, but then Amanda heard a phone message from John’s doctor at the clinic in Oregon where John was being treated that there was a change in his condition and she needed to come to the clinic right away.

We saw Amy planning Ephram’s party with Hannah, and Harold asked Hannah about her visit with her Social Worker and Hannah seemed distraught and confused about what she should do, and Amy, being Amy, tried to speak for her, but Harold told Hannah that she was the only one who could decide what she wanted to do.

We saw Andy and Amanda go to the clinic in Oregon where John was and Amanda impatiently asked John’s Doctor questions about John’s condition, but he wouldn’t give her exact details of his progress, and both her and Andy got increasingly frustrated until he told them that John wanted to tell her about his progress himself, to Andy and Amanda’s mutual shock.

We then saw Harold and Amy have a somewhat heated discussion about Hannah, and Harold told Amy that she needed to let Hannah make the decision to take the Huntington’s test on her own, but Amy blew up at him and she left in a huff.

In Bright’s meeting with Human Resources at his job, he acted in a very arrogant way as he dismissed the accusations that Jillian was leveling at him, but the evidence was there on paper as he had sent Jillian a series of sexually explicit emails at work, and evidence of his misconduct as his former job was brought up, and Rose was shocked and disappointed to see the type of person her son was, and it was recommended that Bright be transferred to another department, and it seemed obvious that the reason that he wasn’t fired outright was because Rose, the mayor, and the ultimate boss over everyone, was his mother.

Amanda and Andy were shocked to see John recognize her and when Andy introduced himself to John, John turned to him and thanked him, and Andy seemed delighted at the progress that John had made.

We saw Rose confront Bright about his behavior and when he tried to put all the blame on Jillian, calling what she did a “bitch mood,” Rose slapped him and she told him that his behavior was morally bankrupt, and that he shouldn’t treat women as interchangeable objects, and she told him that he should be an honorable and good man, and that she had failed him, and that he was fired.

I liked how Harold went to see Hannah and she told him about her conversation with her mother, and that she wanted to take this test because she wanted to care for herself whether or not she had the Huntington’s Disease gene, and she asked him to take her to get her test, and you could tell that Harold was really touched that she asked him.

I liked how they juxtaposed Andy telling a team of doctors about John’s case with Hannah getting her test and Amanda bringing Charlie to see John, to Amy, Harold and Hannah praying in church for a good outcome for Hannah’s test.

I liked the talk that Amy and Harold had as she told him she was him (which he acknowledged was true) and that maybe she had pushed too hard with Hannah, but she wanted Hannah to live her life. That happy mood was soon broken, however when she started talking about her and Ephram and that if there was something that Ephram knew that was preventing her from making an informed decision about them, it wouldn't be the same, and Harold told her that Madison left because she was pregnant with Ephram’s child, and that Ephram knew nothing about it, and Amy was devastated by this news. I think that Harold never should have told Amy about Madison’s pregnancy because it broke her heart and set her up for more heartbreak as it put her in a completely unfair position of knowing about Madison’s pregnancy before Ephram did, and it set the stage for the disaster that was soon to come.

I liked that Bright went to see Jillian and that he apologized to her, and it showed some growth and maturity on his part and that Rose’s words of admonition had made an impression on him.

At long last, we finally saw the end of Andy and Amanda’s relationship as she said that she wasn’t going home and that she had to stay in Oregon to be with her family, and they exchanged endearing words, but they both knew it was over between them. So long, Amanda! You won’t be missed!

We saw Ephram tease Bright about losing his job, and then they walked in to Ephram’s house while everyone was waiting to surprise him, and Ephram saw a forlorn looking Amy as he told her that he loved her so much, but Amy, trying to put on a brave face to hide her heartbreak, said that she knew he loved her, but she couldn’t hold back her tears.

We saw Hannah tell Bright that she had gotten her test results and that they were negative, and Bright was so happy for her and he wanted to celebrate this news with her, but Hannah said that she needed some time to process this news by herself.

In a heartbreaking final scene, Ephram thanked Amy for helping him to get to this point, and that she had pushed him whenever he got lazy and she never for a second made him think that if he didn’t try, he wouldn't get here eventually, and that she was right. Amy then told him that he was so talented, but Ephram said that talent was nothing without strength to back it, and he asked her to go to New York with him for his audition, but the stricken look on her face said it all, and it was so heartbreaking to see as this young woman had to hide what she knew from the boy that she loved.

Overall, I thought that this was an excellent episode, but it was an episode that set the stage for some of the darkest episodes that we would ever see on this show.
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Old 05-15-2022, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jediwands (View Post)
Another Season 1-like episode in both quality and energy.
I completely agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jediwands (View Post)
Andy/Amanda

Amanda, the wicked witch has learned Harry Potter Wizardry, grabbing a wand, broom, and flown away. Time to celebrate. That said, the ending of this debacle did nothing to redeem either character. It is obvious both Andy and Amanda would have been happy to continue this sick relationship indefinitely. It didn't end because one of them woke up and accepted the moral implications of what they were doing; it ended out of guilt, plain and simple. Amanda knew that Charlie's acceptance of her affair would vanish the moment he saw his father. So, she realized what she had to do. Andy, you're still an idiot, and you have no idea what nightmare is coming your way.
I was so glad to see this relationship finally end, and I lost so much respect for Andy for engaging in an illicit affair with a married woman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jediwands (View Post)
Ephram/Amy

What a pleasure it was to see these two be in love in such a heartfelt way with their emotional, physical and spiritual intimacy swirling around beautifully. Their hugs and light touches were crammed with emotion and, their blazing emotional chemistry all mixed in. Light kisses, hugs, banter, intense love declarations, it was all there. And at the very end we were cheated out of what was obviously going to be a very tender embrace as the camera slid off them. But it was beautiful the way it was displayed: Soulmates in love, and I believe the extra punch was in there to remind the audience of their eternal love, as an optimistic nod was given to the audience that they will survive Babygate eventually, and even if rough times are ahead, they will always come back to each other.
I loved seeing them so happy and I loved seeing Ephram tell Amy that he loved her so much, but the devastating news that she had received from Harold overshadowed everything and broke her heart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jediwands (View Post)
Amy

I still can’t get over how much she has been through. Colin passing, falling in love with Ephram, severe situational depression, and she has become so mature and endearing. The way she handled the bombshell… the old Amy would have freaked out. Amy took the news with no self-pity; it wasn't all about her; her tears were for herself and Ephram and their future, not just herself; there was justifiable angst, but not anger; no screaming at her Dad for not telling her earlier. Her struggles to maintain a happy face for Ephram were mesmerizing, and as genuine a gesture of love as you could ever want to see. And, while carrying inside this dreadful news, she was still there for Hannah, too. Mature Amy. I loved her when she was rough around the edges and a typical teen girl. I love her even more now. She had every right even mildly to make this about her but she didn’t go there. I find it incredible. As we understand, she still never makes it about her and how she’s feeling knowing the love of her life has a child out there with an adult babysitter. Amy is amazing and the love she has for Ephram can be demonstrated in this episode to perfection. Selfless love regarding the pregnancy and selfless love making sure Ephram gets through the audition because she’s only thinking of him.
I felt so awful for Amy in this episode and Harold couldn't have picked a worse time to tell her this news.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jediwands (View Post)
Emily? Award winning. Emily acted the hell out of these scenes. Watching the emotions flash across Amy's face as her father told her the news; watching her struggles to maintain the happy facade for Ephram; she was just a pleasure to watch. The best younger actress I have ever seen and I stand by that revelation decades later.
Emily was incredible in this episode and she was and is such a gifted actress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jediwands (View Post)
Harold

They really showed how torn Harold had been about keeping his knowledge from Amy for so long. Now, if he can get by telling Rose. I only wish Harold would show some of these traits in his treatment of Bright. Now a strong case can be made Harold had no business telling Amy when he did. In fact, while it's clear the conversation and what Amy was saying about Hannah made him receive an internal flash of intuition encouraging him to go there, the timing of telling Amy can be hotly debated. Again, it is understandable why Harold felt the need to go there given his daughter's words, but at the same time, Amy was put in such an uncomfortable position given the timing and what she was expected or not expected to do with this information. A case can be made regardless of if Amy knew or not, Ephram still would have pulled away from her temporarily. That is very possible. But how it played out we see Amy's selfless love just wanting Ephram to get through the audition and she would carry the burden of shock and pain on her own until then. This is ultimately what caused Ephram to ridiculously lash out at Amy, however, and allow a temporary break up.

As a result, I am quite conflicted over this situation. I understand why Harold felt compelled to tell her when he did, but the timing couldn't have been more torturous for Amy personally and Ephram and Amy, in general.
I still don't think that Harold should have told Amy about Madison's pregnancy, because it put her in a no-win scenario where she knew about Madison's pregnancy before he did, which caused him to lash out at her and break up with her and cruelly break her heart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jediwands (View Post)
Delia

She was great in this one even if she wasn't on the screen very much. First, with her warning whistle, then by slam-hugging her brother, and finally by taking advantage of her opportunity to lay a big hug on Bright. Loved it! Andy, remember your lovely daughter? You should have been spending time with her instead of the witch that got on her broomstick and finally flew away.
Excellent points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jediwands (View Post)
Bright and Rose/Bright

I did feel bad for Bright, and maybe the slap was a bit too much, but that was a wake-up call he might have needed. However, I loved that Rose accepted responsibility for falling for his charm and personality all of these years and not teaching him the proper way to treat women and everything else for that matter. I loved that she took responsibility for this. Yes, it was a joint failure by both Rose and Harold but Rose took accountability for being soft with him and Bright has demonstrated plenty of times even playing his mother as a result since he understands this reality.

It might be due to what is happening to women at the filthy hands of the Republican Party in the present, but I strongly didn't appreciate Bright indirectly calling Jillian a bitch. He said "bitch mood" but don't be using that word at all, Bright. And think before you casually have sex, please. Maybe caring about the woman after you get her into bed would be the easiest, best solution. Rose and Harold should have been there for him in the past, that is a definite. But at the same time, it probably should be common sense you don't treat women in this manner. It is also the pattern with Bright. He obviously didn't learn from his previous job in a closest half naked with a girl/woman. Yes, the general rule is you do not date or sleep with your coworkers. Not everyone follows this but most do it in a mature way. Half naked in a closet with one and then sending flirty messages to the other during office hours (as his boss pointed out) and then treating her like a casual fling after sex with her is simply not good thinking, Bright. Rose was correct firing him. This was not a "learning process" for Bright as he continued to work. His parents were involved and their names were on the line in a small town. Unacceptable. He told Ephram he really liked the job and was good at the job. Well, you didn't fully care about your job, Bright, or else it would have come first and you would have been more careful.

All that said, the sexual harassment allegations were a bit over the top as she was clearly upset over how he treated her after they had sex. He was too cavalier with the feelings of the person he was with. But on the other hand it was a dose of cold water he probably did need sprinkled on his head. His apology to her wasn't the best one he could have produced either. It was average but as he was walking away I am not really sure I love his grin. I don't understand why he looked so happy, almost like he got away with something. If that apology was sincere he would have had more of a Hannah response after she received the news about her blood test... content but still taking things very seriously. Bright didn't go there at all. We understand what he does to Hannah later on as well so this is why I cannot fully say he understands the consequences of his actions.
I didn't like Bright's cavalier attitude about what he had done, and I think that Rose slapping him was the wake up call that he needed.

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Bright/Hannah

His hug briefly brought Hannah out of her "results-shock" which was so awesome. I loved Bright's response to the news and also appreciate how Hannah played the results. She wasn't jumping around in celebration initially. It was a big deal and she even mentioned there's survivors guilt too. She knows it could have gone the other way so she understands how serious all of this is. She also has to be concerned about the rest of her family and what their status might be. I thought it was wonderful she asked Bright if she could be alone to take it all in as Bright was celebrating with a nice little yell while walking away. Beautiful moment.
I liked their scene together and I love how Bright genuinely cares about Hannah.

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Hannah

Sarah gave another brilliant performance. I was glad they made taking the test a big, involved procedure, taking into account the full range of emotional burdens, whatever the results. That seemed very realistic. As were Hannah's struggles with the decision. Hannah did need Harold as a father figure. And he came through for her. And her thanking him for butting in was very Hannah-like. The fact that she was rocked so profoundly at the result also seemed spot-on.

Isn't it interesting how front porches figure in Hannah's ability to see a future? It looked like that was happening again in this episode. This is another demonstration of the magic of Everwood.
Sarah really did do an incredible job in this episode.

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Amy/Hannah

I love their friendship so much. Amy telling Hannah she would put her first even over seeing Ephram immediately at the surprise party was beautiful. This is the most beautiful friendship of the series. It took me this rewatch to truly see it.
I completely agree that I've really come to love and appreciate Amy and Hannah's friendship in this rewatch.

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Last Thoughts

1. Irv hasn't been around in such a long time. Thanks, Amanda.
2. Loved the whole idea of Edna's motorcycle club.
3. I appreciate that Ephram and Amy received a lot of attention in this one because I’m convinced it was to tell the audience not to worry, they are making it to the finish line.
4. Tom Amandes not only had time to effortlessly show his acting talent, but he also brilliantly directed this episode.
5. Merrilyn Gann hardly has the opportunity as Rose to do a scene like the passionate one between Rose and Bright and she was phenomenal. What an actress.
6. I thought it was incredibly contrived that Amy wanted Madison invited to Ephram's party. Let's be clear... they are your ex for a reason. Amy is not required to be fine with an adult woman who was with Ephram (and ended up getting pregnant which is all kinds of breaking the law). Especially due to the Madison band lie, it was especially ridiculous we had to see Amy acting like it was her job to be okay with Ephram and Madison being friends. No. Never.
7. I also thought it was a bit too much poking fun at Ephram not having many friends. He is just fine in the friend and family department. Will couldn't attend, Jake, Nina and Sam were out of town, Irv has vanished, Edna had her bike, Wendell could have been invited if he wasn't dismissed by the writers. Ephram is best friends with Bright, good friends with Hannah, Amy is the love of his life, and they were all there for him, not to mention all of his family. He wasn't a loner, it was bizarre how they were commenting on this. Amy and Bright pretty much despise all of their "popular" friends now and only hang with Ephram and Hannah.
8. Emily rocked the single tear effect. Anyone notice how she timed that tear just perfectly? And when Amy was just staring at Ephram after his party? Just staring. Amy, with the secret, the tear, and the love? Beyond powerful stuff.
9. Ephram and Amy were very touchy with the hand holding, hugs, kisses on the cheek/head, Ephram leaning in very closely, in almost a seductive way… Ephram grabbing hold of her and his touching of her shirt to straighten it out, etc. Ephram pointedly telling how how much he loved her. Their looks were so flirty and full of love, just how Ephram said things to Amy was so romantically passionate. And Amy struggling with the, "I know you do." I loved it. These two are soulmates. They always find a way as we know.

A really good, high quality episode even if it's devastating given Amy finding out about the pregnancy and what is right around the corner for all of our favorite characters.

ETA: I reread the episode discussion when the show was live and just saw how some people thought Harold was justified to tell Amy when he did. But I remember mentioning how he should have told her earlier even and it was a timing thing. Like Madison could have waited to tell Ephram after his audition, Harold could have waited to tell Amy until the right time so she wasn't put in a terrible position.
Excellent thoughts. I do feel that Harold could have waited to tell Amy until the right time so she wasn't put into such a terrible position.
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Old 05-15-2022, 12:31 PM
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UGH Amy knows about Madison. I get why Harold felt the need to tell her but really it wasn’t his place. He decided to keep this secret for Andy and IMO Ephram deserved to know about it first. But I am glad thatt Amy knows Ephram doesn’t know about it so its not like its a secret he kept from her. I also found it OOC for Amy to want to invite Madison in the first place.
I really don't think that Harold should have told Amy about Madison's pregnancy before Ephram knew about it because it put her in a no-win scenario and it broke her heart.

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It was cute that Hannah decided to get the test and wanted Harold to go with her. I just wish we had seen more Harold/Hannah scenes before this one episode to make it a bit more impactful. Also, Bright is so sweet with Hannah, even though I dont like them that much I do think they were being written very well.’
I really liked that Hannah asked Harold to go with her to take the test, and Harold seemed really moved that she asked him.

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Bright’s storyline imo was pretty intense. I am a bit on the fence about it. On the one hand, I dont think there is anything wrong with someone wanting to “have fun” and mess around as long as they are clear to their partners. But it seems that maybe Bright has led quite a few women on. I do think this woman at his work was just as to blame though for their indiscretions. She sent emails too? And it does seem that she was just mad he didnt like her and was trying to retaliate. HOWEVER, i understand why Rose was so hurt by it all. The way Bright was excusing his behavior and calling her a bitch and dismissing his actions was gross. I dont think Rose should have slapped him but I do like her standing up to him and telling him to do better. Firing him imo felt a bit extreme but I Get why. I was glad Bright ended up apologizing to the girl but it felt a bit blasé and not that sincere.
Yes, Jillian did play a part in everything that happened and she admitted it, and I do feel that she brought those charges against Bright because he had slept with her and basically dumped her, but I was glad to see Rose call him out for the way he treats women, and I feel that Rose firing him was a bit extreme, it was the wake-up call that he needed to be a better person.

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Andy and Amanda, omg what a freaking mess! She wanted a divorce and failed to tell Andy this the entire time they were dating??? Then decides to get one… but then, John wakes up, which is amazing, but it doesn't change what happened in their relationship before his accident!? And if this thing with Andy was as special and serious as they made it out to be then why the hell would she just give that up and not fight for it? It kinda proves it really was just a fling for her. It just kinda felt like she was doing it for her son, and not really for her, which I dont like. But, I dont want them together anyways, so I'm not all that sad. The break up scene was just so quick and random though after all they went through.
I was so glad to see Andy and Amanda's affair finally end and I didn't care that the ending was abrupt, as I was just glad that we would finally be rid of her.

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Top 5:
1. Rose
2. Amy
3. Harold despite telling Amy too early.
4. Hannah
5. Andy
Also, I looked back on my old thoughts and they were EXACLY the same… WEIRD.
Good choices.
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Old 05-15-2022, 02:32 PM
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I watched this last week actually because it was the last ep on my dvd so I just finished it lol.
Glad I put it up early.

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TV couples definitely need more of these moments!
Exactly right.

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I did read your post Michelle, I am just too exhausted to reply right now, but i agree with a lot of what you said, and I will post my initial thought I wrote last week:



UGH Amy knows about Madison. I get why Harold felt the need to tell her but really it wasn’t his place. He decided to keep this secret for Andy and IMO Ephram deserved to know about it first. But I am glad thatt Amy knows Ephram doesn’t know about it so its not like its a secret he kept from her. I also found it OOC for Amy to want to invite Madison in the first place.
Completely agree. Harold telling Amy when he did was awful. If he was going there, it should have been immediately or making Andy tell Ephram first because he wanted Amy to know. It really wasn't his place, you are right. He did promise to keep this secret for Andy and yes, 10000000%, Ephram deserved to know first. Which is why Harold should have gotten the idea to tell Amy during their conversation (it did make sense given Amy’s words) but waited until he had a chance to talk to Andy about telling Ephram right away while voicing his desire for Amy to know. Ephram needed to know first and he kept a promise so he should have consulted with Andy first. Yes, excellent point... at least Amy didn't find out Ephram knew and wasn't telling her. They would have definitely broken up given this scenario. Completely out of character for Amy to want to invite Madison. She is an ex, an adult, and it's not like Ephram and Madison were even friends before they illegally dated. There was no friendship they could go back to, and they had the most unhealthy, drama-filled, miserable relationship too. It was so annoying Amy would even think to invite Madison, especially after the band lie. I hated how contrived it was as Amy had to go out of character in order to further the Madisongate plot.

Quote:
It was cute that Hannah decided to get the test and wanted Harold to go with her. I just wish we had seen more Harold/Hannah scenes before this one episode to make it a bit more impactful. Also, Bright is so sweet with Hannah, even though I dont like them that much I do think they were being written very well.’
Yes, indeed. I feel the same way. Yes, it would have worked a lot better if Harold and Hannah had more scenes together before this all got started. I also found it kind of weird that Rose wasn't involved much at all. But even with Harold alone it would have been nice if it was built up a bit more.

Quote:
Bright’s storyline imo was pretty intense. I am a bit on the fence about it. On the one hand, I dont think there is anything wrong with someone wanting to “have fun” and mess around as long as they are clear to their partners. But it seems that maybe Bright has led quite a few women on. I do think this woman at his work was just as to blame though for their indiscretions. She sent emails too? And it does seem that she was just mad he didnt like her and was trying to retaliate. HOWEVER, i understand why Rose was so hurt by it all. The way Bright was excusing his behavior and calling her a bitch and dismissing his actions was gross. I dont think Rose should have slapped him but I do like her standing up to him and telling him to do better. Firing him imo felt a bit extreme but I Get why. I was glad Bright ended up apologizing to the girl but it felt a bit blasé and not that sincere.
I am conflicted as well for the reasons you listed. Everyone kind of had a right to feel the way that they did. I liked that Rose admitted she was taken in way too much in the past and present by Bright’s charm. Teenagers are intuitive when it comes to parents. Bright could pick up on Rose being soft in this way and he played off of this in many instances throughout the series.

Quote:
Andy and Amanda, omg what a freaking mess! She wanted a divorce and failed to tell Andy this the entire time they were dating??? Then decides to get one… but then, John wakes up, which is amazing, but it doesn't change what happened in their relationship before his accident!? And if this thing with Andy was as special and serious as they made it out to be then why the hell would she just give that up and not fight for it? It kinda proves it really was just a fling for her. It just kinda felt like she was doing it for her son, and not really for her, which I dont like. But, I dont want them together anyways, so I'm not all that sad. The break up scene was just so quick and random though after all they went through.
Absolutely. 100%. An absolute MESS!

What I am wondering is now that Charlie knows something happened between his mother and Andy in the past will he tell his dad? Kids are not good at keeping secrets. Imagine that off screen moment.

Hey, I was wondering... I am sure this episode was still filmed in Utah because I don't remember them ever filming in Oregon but notice where they said John was… Oregon... Andy and Amanda walked in and my God seeing those mountains in the background! It was so majestically stunning, I could hardly follow the scene because I was looking at those beautiful mountains in the background!

Is this what parts of Oregon looks like? That scene with those mountains just staring at you waving their beauty? My GOD.

Quote:
Top 5:
1. Rose
2. Amy
3. Harold despite telling Amy too early.
4. Hannah
5. Andy
Also, I looked back on my old thoughts and they were EXACLY the same… WEIRD.
You are consistent!

I love your ranking!

Last edited by jediwands; 05-15-2022 at 02:52 PM
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Old 05-15-2022, 03:05 PM
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I thought that this was an incredibly well-done and pivotal episode that set the stage for the rest of Season Three, as major changes took place and a secret was revealed that would have devastating consequences for Amy Abbott and the boy she loved and inspired, Ephram Brown.
This was definitely an enormous set up episode to conclude the rest of the season. It felt like it so much as every fan understood the babygate nightmare was finally going to be exposed to everyone involved.

Quote:
This episode started out on an outwardly jubilant note as Amy threw a surprise party for Ephram, who had been invited to audition for Julliard, but what should have been a joyous occasion for her was overshadowed by some devasting news that she had learned, news which would change her life and shatter her happy relationship with Ephram. The theme of this episode was surprise, and the types of surprises that some key characters received varied, but those surprises would change their lives forever.
I love how it wasn't just a surprise for Amy finding out about the pregnancy, but it was Hannah's surprise test results and Bright's surprise firing as well. I love how Everwood takes one main theme and is able to create many different storylines for characters using only one.

Quote:
We then saw the show flash back to the previous week where Ephram told Amy that he had found out that he had gotten the audition for Julliard, and they were both overjoyed and excited at this news, but Harold came out and said that they were taking Hannah to the clinic in Denver to get her Huntington’s test, which Ephram had understandably forgotten about given the news that he had received, and Ephram told Amy to tell Hannah that he said good luck and, and that he was thinking about her.
This scene was beautiful. If only the baby nightmare never would have entered the picture, how beautiful it would have been seeing Ephram and Amy happy sharing Ephram's good news together and Ephram telling Amy it was THEIR happiness and news, together. Instead, we had to deal with Madisongate wrecking everything.

Quote:
Meanwhile, we saw Rose tell Bright, who was reading some type of “Men’s Magazine,” that she had received a call from Human Resources that a woman named Jillian had filed a sexual misconduct complaint about him, and they were going to have a formal hearing about the matter that they both had to attend, but Bright said that him and Jillian had gone out on a few dates and that was it, and Rose told him that he wasn’t supposed to date co-workers, but Bright made light of the whole issue.
I remember watching for the first time thinking Bright was not going to work there forever and here we are seeing his eventual firing.

Quote:
At the clinic in Denver we saw a counselor caution Hannah about getting a test to see if she had the gene to get Huntington’s Disease, saying that she simply couldn’t take the test, but she had to go through a series of preliminary evaluations to see if she would be able to handle the news if her test determined that she did, in fact, have the gene to get Huntington’s Disease.
The moment felt so real.

Quote:
We saw Amy tell Harold that she wanted to have a surprise party for Ephram to celebrate his getting an audition for Julliard, and she mentioned inviting Madison, indicating that she had come to terms with Ephram’s relationship with Madison, but Harold didn’t seem happy at the prospect, for reasons he would reveal to Amy later in the episode.
It was so contrived.

Quote:
We then saw Amy at Amanda’s house and my stomach turned once again as they continued their illicit affair and Amanda told him that she had drawn up the preliminary paperwork to divorce John, but then Amanda heard a phone message from John’s doctor at the clinic in Oregon where John was being treated that there was a change in his condition and she needed to come to the clinic right away.
I hate these two so much.

Quote:
We saw Amy planning Ephram’s party with Hannah, and Harold asked Hannah about her visit with her Social Worker and Hannah seemed distraught and confused about what she should do, and Amy, being Amy, tried to speak for her, but Harold told Hannah that she was the only one who could decide what she wanted to do.
What a powerful scene.

Quote:
We saw Andy and Amanda go to the clinic in Oregon where John was and Amanda impatiently asked John’s Doctor questions about John’s condition, but he wouldn’t give her exact details of his progress, and both her and Andy got increasingly frustrated until he told them that John wanted to tell her about his progress himself, to Andy and Amanda’s mutual shock.
So strange how Andy even needed to go. He wasn't John's doctor anymore. Back off, Andy. Yuck.

Quote:
We then saw Harold and Amy have a somewhat heated discussion about Hannah, and Harold told Amy that she needed to let Hannah make the decision to take the Huntington’s test on her own, but Amy blew up at him and she left in a huff.
Tom and Emily have incredible chemistry together. I also sit up a little straighter when they share scenes.

Quote:
In Bright’s meeting with Human Resources at his job, he acted in a very arrogant way as he dismissed the accusations that Jillian was leveling at him, but the evidence was there on paper as he had sent Jillian a series of sexually explicit emails at work, and evidence of his misconduct as his former job was brought up, and Rose was shocked and disappointed to see the type of person her son was, and it was recommended that Bright be transferred to another department, and it seemed obvious that the reason that he wasn’t fired outright was because Rose, the mayor, and the ultimate boss over everyone, was his mother.
I didn't like Bright's behavior at all.

Bright had three episodes in a row of being there for Hannah beautifully with sage-like wisdom and then this storyline appears.

Quote:
Amanda and Andy were shocked to see John recognize her and when Andy introduced himself to John, John turned to him and thanked him, and Andy seemed delighted at the progress that John had made.
I still don't think Andy should have even been there. He wasn't his doctor, he was only sleeping with the patient's wife.

Quote:
We saw Rose confront Bright about his behavior and when he tried to put all the blame on Jillian, calling what she did a “bitch mood,” Rose slapped him and she told him that his behavior was morally bankrupt, and that he shouldn’t treat women as interchangeable objects, and she told him that he should be an honorable and good man, and that she had failed him, and that he was fired.
I loved the acting in this scene.

Quote:
I liked how Harold went to see Hannah and she told him about her conversation with her mother, and that she wanted to take this test because she wanted to care for herself whether or not she had the Huntington’s Disease gene, and she asked him to take her to get her test, and you could tell that Harold was really touched that she asked him.
I was so emotionally taken in by this moment. It was beautiful.

Quote:
I liked how they juxtaposed Andy telling a team of doctors about John’s case with Hannah getting her test and Amanda bringing Charlie to see John, to Amy, Harold and Hannah praying in church for a good outcome for Hannah’s test.
It was very well done.

Quote:
I liked the talk that Amy and Harold had as she told him she was him (which he acknowledged was true) and that maybe she had pushed too hard with Hannah, but she wanted Hannah to live her life. That happy mood was soon broken, however when she started talking about her and Ephram and that if there was something that Ephram knew that was preventing her from making an informed decision about them, it wouldn't be the same, and Harold told her that Madison left because she was pregnant with Ephram’s child, and that Ephram knew nothing about it, and Amy was devastated by this news. I think that Harold never should have told Amy about Madison’s pregnancy because it broke her heart and set her up for more heartbreak as it put her in a completely unfair position of knowing about Madison’s pregnancy before Ephram did, and it set the stage for the disaster that was soon to come.
Emily drives me to tears no matter how many times I watch this scene. It is SO powerful. Yes, I understand why Harold felt compelled to tell her then given Amy's words but he should have waited to talk to Andy.

Quote:
I liked that Bright went to see Jillian and that he apologized to her, and it showed some growth and maturity on his part and that Rose’s words of admonition had made an impression on him.
I just wasn't sure what Bright's grin was all about as he was walking away. I didn't like that expression and not sure if it was in the writing or the way Chris decided to play the scene.

Quote:
At long last, we finally saw the end of Andy and Amanda’s relationship as she said that she wasn’t going home and that she had to stay in Oregon to be with her family, and they exchanged endearing words, but they both knew it was over between them. So long, Amanda! You won’t be missed!


Quote:
We saw Ephram tease Bright about losing his job, and then they walked in to Ephram’s house while everyone was waiting to surprise him, and Ephram saw a forlorn looking Amy as he told her that he loved her so much, but Amy, trying to put on a brave face to hide her heartbreak, said that she knew he loved her, but she couldn’t hold back her tears.

We saw Hannah tell Bright that she had gotten her test results and that they were negative, and Bright was so happy for her and he wanted to celebrate this news with her, but Hannah said that she needed some time to process this news by herself.

In a heartbreaking final scene, Ephram thanked Amy for helping him to get to this point, and that she had pushed him whenever he got lazy and she never for a second made him think that if he didn’t try, he wouldn't get here eventually, and that she was right. Amy then told him that he was so talented, but Ephram said that talent was nothing without strength to back it, and he asked her to go to New York with him for his audition, but the stricken look on her face said it all, and it was so heartbreaking to see as this young woman had to hide what she knew from the boy that she loved.
All of these scenes were so amazing, the acting, writing, directing was magical.

Quote:
Overall, I thought that this was an excellent episode, but it was an episode that set the stage for some of the darkest episodes that we would ever see on this show.
It had S1 quality but certainly a set up for darkness and a conclusion to the season as you knew it was inevitable not everyone was going to be happy.
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Old 05-15-2022, 03:10 PM
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I just realized how screwed over as Ephram and Amy fans we were due to the timing of Madisongate being revealed to Amy... Ephram wanted Amy to go with him to NYC since he viewed them as a unit. She was there for him every step of the way and he wanted her there with him. But since Amy knew about the pregnancy she didn't feel comfotable going and not being able to tell him, she just wanted him to get through the audition first.

This was such a horrible situation for us Ephram and Amy fans. We could have seen Ephram and Amy return to NYC together a second time (beautiful continuity) and happy together sharing this moment. Instead, Amy could not go because she knew about the baby thanks to Harold. In addition, IF Amy would have gone there's no way Madison would have ever told Ephram about the baby with Amy there either.

Harold really messed all of this up for us as fans of Ephram and Amy.
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Old 05-15-2022, 03:20 PM
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I just realized how screwed over as Ephram and Amy fans we were due to the timing of Madisongate being revealed to Amy... Ephram wanted Amy to go with him to NYC since he viewed them as a unit. She was there for him every step of the way and he wanted her there with him. But since Amy knew about the pregnancy she didn't feel comfotable going and not being able to tell him, she just wanted him to get through the audition first.

This was such a horrible situation for us Ephram and Amy fans. We could have seen Ephram and Amy return to NYC together a second time (beautiful continuity) and happy together sharing this moment. Instead, Amy could not go because she knew about the baby thanks to Harold. In addition, IF Amy would have gone there's no way Madison would have ever told Ephram about the baby with Amy there either.

Harold really messed all of this up for us as fans of Ephram and Amy.
All that is so true. Well said.
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Old 05-15-2022, 03:25 PM
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All that is so true. Well said.
It’s infuriating.
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Old 05-15-2022, 03:32 PM
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It’s infuriating.
I think that Rina Mimoun liked to see Amy suffer. She pretty much admitted that when she said if they had gotten a Season Five, Amy would have to suffer some more. The thought of Amy standing by that Ferris Wheel and Ephram never coming out of his apartment because he went back in to call Madison makes my blood boil. Amy and Ephram had suffered enough, so why bring Madison back? All the beautiful moments of that finale would have been ruined if Madison came back.
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Old 05-15-2022, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post)
I think that Rina Mimoun liked to see Amy suffer. She pretty much admitted that when she said if they had gotten a Season Five, Amy would have to suffer some more. The thought of Amy standing by that Ferris Wheel and Ephram never coming out of his apartment because he went back in to call Madison makes my blood boil. Amy and Ephram had suffered enough, so why bring Madison back? All the beautiful moments of that finale would have been ruined if Madison came back.
I think you’re totally right. She loved Hannah and hated Amy, it was really obvious. I can’t believe she admitted Amy would have to suffer some more. Does she have a bad memory? In what season does Amy not suffer? I think she would have taken pleasure in welcoming back Madison and making Any look like a fool. You can say but Hannah was cheated on and that was her character based on her high school life. But the thing is if you think about how that storyline was constructed Hannah basically had the power after the cheating was revealed as Bright pined and yearned for her to take him back. So yes, with Amy it was one form of misery after another and S5 would have been the ultimate way to make Amy feel pain.
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Old 05-15-2022, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jediwands (View Post)
I think you’re totally right. She loved Hannah and hated Amy, it was really obvious. I can’t believe she admitted Amy would have to suffer some more. Does she have a bad memory? In what season does Amy not suffer? I think she would have taken pleasure in welcoming back Madison and making Any look like a fool. You can say but Hannah was cheated on and that was her character based on her high school life. But the thing is if you think about how that storyline was constructed Hannah basically had the power after the cheating was revealed as Bright pined and yearned for her to take him back. So yes, with Amy it was one form of misery after another and S5 would have been the ultimate way to make Amy feel pain.
I'll never understand why they kept bringing Madison back and why they would want Amy to suffer some more. Amy was a wonderful person with a good heart and she didn't deserve to have her heart broken by Ephram due to the fallout of Madisongate, and she wouldn't have deserved to have her heart broken yet again if Madison returned. As many of us have said, the show being cancelled was a blessing in disguise.
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