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2021-2023 Everwood Rewatch: Episode 3.10 - Need to Know
Rewatch Overview Need to Know SUMMARY Realizing that his feelings for Amanda are only growing stronger despite his best efforts to maintain a platonic friendship, Andy decides it is in both of their best interests if he refers her husband's case to Dr. Abbott. Upon hearing news that Madison's band is performing in town, Ephram seeks guidance from Bright, signaling a thaw in the boys' chilly relationship as of late. Finally, Amy's curiosity unearths Hannah's family secret. SEASON 3 EPISODE 10 AIR DATE November 29, 2004 WRITER Bruce Miller DIRECTOR David Petrarca Last edited by jediwands; 01-13-2023 at 10:21 PM |
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^ I find it interesting that the writer of this episode is not one that we commonly see writing Everwood episodes. He didn’t write many. I wonder if that played a part in how off and infuriating this episode felt throughout.
I just looked and he actually wrote Staking Claim. So he knows these characters. I just cannot comprehend how he forgot about how to write Ephram in this one. Last edited by jediwands; 03-13-2022 at 05:10 AM |
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To say I was disappointed in both Ephram and Andy does not even come close to describing how pissed off I felt while watching their stupidity in this episode.
I will forever not understand how Ephram could have lied to Amy like that. He only told her the truth because he thought that she already knew about it. Why, Ephram? Why?! He literally listened to everything Bright said but you know what? I cannot even fully blame Bright even though Bright is ridiculous for not looking out for his sister. He literally told Ephram to go and compare the looks of Madison versus Amy to see which one he prefers in so many words. Are you kidding me? Ephram loves Amy and said as much. What are you doing, Ephram? Why wouldn't you immediately tell Bright there is no comparison in looks but in general really no comparison because you love Amy. Why the hell would you care about seeing Madison when you haven't mentioned her since you found out in S2 Amy had feelings for you? You did not care. Not one mention of Madison until now! Now suddenly right after you have it all with Amy, after you sleep with her for the first time during those beautiful cabin moments and the morning after, you end up suddenly being curious about Madison? Ephram looked at the sheet of paper of her former band like he was addicted and needed to take a look at Madison. Sickening. The biggest, most disgusting thing he pulled was getting Madison's number from Jay. How absolutely inappropriate and vile on Ephram's end. It is one thing to be curious, but quite another to lie to Amy, show up where the band was playing thinking the adult babysitter was going to be there, actually get Madison's current number AND tell your father you wanted to call Madison. He literally said that to Andy! He felt tempted to call Madison. This is so out of character and goes against everything we have seen prior, including Ephram's words to Bright about not having feelings for Madison anymore, understanding their past relationship was unhealthy (in so many words) yet he was still curious. Curious of what exactly? Amy was emotionally devastated over Hannah's father and the possibility Hannah has the gene, and Ephram is lying, scheming, behind her back (with the help of Amy's own stupid brother) and only tells her he lied because he thought she already knew! I could see Ephram slightly curious about what Madison is up to, if she's still in the band BUT thinking as a not single guy... he could have mentioned it to Amy and asked if she wanted to go even, even saying he wanted to rub it in and show Madison that his relationship with Amy was the real deal and he's not a super immature boy anymore. If he was honest with Amy while I am not sure Amy would have wanted to go, at least it would have been understandable and not dishonest. He told Bright he loved Amy, did not love Madison yet he went along with what Bright was saying about checking out and comparing the two and seeing if he was missing out in so many words. Bright is saying this knowing his sister is involved. What kind of decent brother goes there? What kind of decent guy supposedly in love goes along with this? I do not care if Bright is friends with Ephram, you do not do that to your sister, Bright! Ephram goes right along with it. Ephram looked borderline devious lying to Amy sitting out in the car trying to stalk Madison's band. God, he looked ridiculous, I wish I could have jumped through the screen and told him to get the hell home, you are a lying, sneaky, selfish prick. The fandom invested two and a half seasons in the Ephram and Amy story, only to damage it after they reached the ultimate level of happiness (together in every way, emotionally and physically). Also, to go there in such a massively uncharacteristic Ephram way too. Ephram is identifying himself as having self-destructive tendencies compelling him to destroy any happiness he attains? Seriously, show? Guilt was written all over Ephram's face from the moment he ridiculously called Amy and lied to her about being sick until the very end while in Amy's presence. I just hated to see how he ended up telling her due to feeling like she already knew. I would have digested it better had he gone to her and told her without it being fueled by the "selfish guilt." I hated that shot of Ephram in the car as he's lying to Amy... horrible. I just despise how he behaves during this storyline. I also found it extremely unrealistic that Ephram and Amy take their relationship to the next level and Ephram's mind is on... Madison and the band? It seems like all Ephram would want to do was be with Amy and embrace the physical side to their relationship. It was a huge step and what guy wouldn't love that he could finally have sex with a girl when there's mutual love between them and they've made it to such a new, fun and exciting time? If this curiosity would have happened, say, six months after their first time, I could maybe understand it more but right away? We even see Amy on the phone with Ephram insinuating they were going to get intimate that night again, probably the second time ever. Ephram turns it down to do a comparison contest between the one he loves (Amy) and the adult babysitter he had unhealthy toxicity with? Okay then. Ephram is a lying, sneaking, manipulative creep in this one and there's no other way to describe his vile behavior. I struggle to buy it but guess what? It did happen, which is why I am furious. The lying was bad enough but to get her phone number and tell Andy he was tempted to call her is just such cruel behavior and borderline wanting to emotionally cheat and lie at the very least. This storyline is so maddening and what makes it worse is knowing what Ephram pulls several episodes later. Ephram is so lucky during this time period as well as when he returns from Europe that Amy even gives him the opportunity to be excused for all of his bad behavior let alone actually forgives him. It is unreal to me. Some people say Amy was in the wrong in the earlier seasons for "using" Ephram for one second because she was in a state of mental torture due to Colin in a coma or not handling the situation with Colin and Ephram in an ideal way. First off, she was younger and secondly, she was a teen dealing with difficult adult problems and lastly, she was not in a romantic relationship with Ephram at that time. Quite frankly she can treat him how she wants to! He was not her boyfriend. What is happening now between Ephram and Amy and how Ephram is treating her is while they are exclusive, involved in a committed romantic relationship. Think about what has transpired and will continue to transpire: 1. Ephram returns from New York City after they officially get together a short time before and treats Amy like garbage for a short time period before finally telling her what was wrong (review) and acts like he need a slight break to figure out how he wants to proceed due to piano and balancing everything out. He made her very upset during this time period. 2. He lies and schemes and almost borderline wants to emotionally cheat in this episode due to the adult babysitter we find out soon he impregnated. 3. Yes, he impregnated Madison and not caring about how Amy felt about this he proceeds to dump her over it and laughs in her face about not seeing a forever. 4. He knows Rose has cancer and still bails for Europe leaving Amy and even Bright alone and devastated. Sorry but Ephram did all of these things during or after his romantic relationship with Amy. It is really despicable behavior. He should have thanked his lucky stars that Amy was able to forgive him for all of this vile behavior and emotional turmoil he put her through, quite frankly. Which is why when some say Amy should have immediately reunited with Ephram after they sleep together in S4... are you kidding me? Ephram is lucky she even slept with him at that point and considered reuniting! She should have been scared to immediately reunite and I was glad she had the strength to take even more time. Ephram sucked during these moments, I am sorry. Amy is my favorite character which makes me even more furious as a result. Which leads me to... poor Amy when she found out about the band lie and Ephram's gross deception. She was consumed with emotion over Hannah's situation and that definitely had everything to do with how Amy was unwilling to deal with what was going with Ephram. I actually admired Amy and loved to see her care so much about Hannah... even though she was pissed off over what Ephram just told her, she realized that the situation with Ephram should take a backseat, no matter how much it upset her, given what she was dealing with regarding Hannah. It doesn't get any better in this episode... concerning Andy... I hardly have the words. Like father, like son I guess. Harold gave him quite possibly one of the most compelling and powerful speeches ever. It came straight from Harold's heart... pure Sage advice from Harold. This speech pretty much demonstrates how much Harold cares about Andy. Everything he said was sensitive but blunt and true as he practically begged Andy not to go there. Harold told Andy it was wrong, insinuating even borderline evil wrong to go there with Amanda. What does Andy do after Harold's sage words of advice and truth? He sweeps Harold's words and truth under the rug. That kiss was disgusting and Amanda saying she fell out of love with John was sickening. That comment all the more should have caused Andy to turn and run away for good. Unbelievable. HE KISSED HER in the house, not in his house, but her house, the one she shares with her neurologically impaired husband. It makes me sick. If the writers were going for the parallel of a stupid, careless, selfish, thoughtless idiotic father/son tandem, screwing up everything in their path, they brilliantly succeeded in portraying it quite nicely. Hannah broke my heart. Sarah Drew has never been better in her scenes as Hannah with Amy. I remember being shocked as she told Amy about her father's terminal illness while watching for the first time. Emily was BRILLIANT as Amy's finding out about Hannah's secret. Emily and her nonverbal communication is so compelling it makes me want to tear up because I feel every ounce of gifted brilliance coming from Emily. It feels like I want to give both Amy and Emily a hug. I loved how Amy researched and cared so much about Hannah. While Amy was being Amy as she was persistent initially (regarding Hannah getting tested) but she then backed off once Hannah explained her thoughts and feelings. I loved how Amy listened to her. You can tell how much Amy cares about Hannah and I respect their friendship in a way I never have before in prior watches. Not being able to escape and stop talking about this... the bottom line for me with Ephram... it is one thing to be curious, but quite another to lie to Amy, agree in so many words with Bright so he could check out Madison and go with a comparison of sorts (even though Amy is way more beautiful and his soulmate) and then the worst part? He actually got Madison's phone number and told Andy he was tempted to call her. THAT is where it borderlines attempted emotional cheating even. One thing to be curious, even lie about being sick (which is gross in itself) but quite another to get Madison's phone number and tell Andy he felt like calling her. Is the audience meant to believe he actually is considering which one is better for him: an adult woman who treated him like trash while essentially in the eyes of the law, assaulted him when they had sex versus his soulmate he's loved since the moment he had first interaction with her in Everwood? Unacceptable. Devious. Sickening. The talent of Emily Van Camp is luminous. In her scenes with Hannah, her family, and Ephram and the way Amy looked getting ready for her date with Ephram really emphasized how utterly cruel Ephram behaved. Sarah Drew was at her best as mentioned, too. I always wondered if the line from Andy to Ephram about "losing someone you love because you forgot to appreciate them while you had them is just about the worst feeling in the world" was foreshadowing. I think it was since we know Ephram and Amy break up in the not so distant future. I think when Harold grabbed Amy to dance it was an ad lib and not a scripted part of the scene. I truly think that was Tom and Emily enjoying the moment. I even thought Delia was kind of out of character so excited to see the band advertisement. I know she doesn't hate Madison (but should) yet she definitely fired Madison and did not seem to miss her after doing so once again until this episode just like her brother. I did like that scene between Amy and Jake in the library. I remember thinking Amy was certainly going to follow in her grandfather and father's footstep and become an MD. No Edna or Irv once again. Overall, I feel that the writers wanted to leave this last episode (and then a break) with some fireworks to mess things up, and they certainly succeeded in doing so. I would bet money Berlanti wasn't highly involved in the planning of this episode. We see a relatively unknown writer of the series as another indication maybe Berlanti and this writer in general simply weren't engaged and interested in creating an episode that fully made sense, keeping the characters in character and not total confusion (not to mention, anger) for a generalized audience reaction which is what actually transpired. Some moments: Quote:
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So basically Ephram listens to Bright and Andy doesn’t listen to Harold. Fun times. Last edited by jediwands; 03-13-2022 at 05:47 AM |
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Sadly the link I was watching on is not working anymore, so I just went to ebay and bought seasons 2-4 (I already have 1) on dvd.. They are used dvds I think but supposed to be in good quality so I hope they are okay. I needed to buy them anyways and they werent that expensive.
They arent set to be shipped until the 17th, so I will try to play catch up after I get them. __________________
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We are taking a break soon so it will be the following: We'll discuss 3.11 next week, (on March 20), then take a two week break after that, so we will discuss 3.12 on 4/10. You can absolutely watch and respond when you are able to but the two week break will help you hopefully. Last edited by jediwands; 03-13-2022 at 05:39 PM |
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I found this episode to be an extreme letdown from the previous episode as both a father and a son did things that really disappointed me, and we saw the damage that lies by omission can do. This episode followed a theme called “need to know,” as we saw several characters not tell the truth to people close to them, some for purposely legitimate reasons, and some for shamefully deceptive reasons.
This episode followed a Christmas theme, but we saw that what should have been a joyous celebration of that time of year ended up causing breaches in some of the key relationships on the show. I liked the opening scene of this episode as we saw Everwood enveloped in a magical Christmas themed aura, as Ephram and Delia were going shopping in a Winter Wonderland Street Scene right out of a Hallmark Card, and Delia was arguing that the “Holiday Pageant” that she was taking a part in was really a Christmas Pageant and all other religions, including their mother’s religion of Judaism, were being ignored. Then we saw Ephram find a flyer for Madison’s band, and the stage was set for a pattern of lies and deception in this episode which really disappointed me. We saw a grouchy Andy come into his office as Harold and Louise were decorating for Christmas, and Andy said that he was overwhelmed and he asked him to take over John Hayes’ case, perpetrating the first lie by omission in this episode, as he didn’t tell Harold the real reason why he wanted him to take over his case. I liked the scene with Hannah and Amy where Amy was trying to find the perfect gift for Ephram and Amy said that she was looking forward to meeting Hannah’s parents as they were supposed to be coming home from Hong Kong, but Hannah revealed that her parents weren’t coming home for Christmas, which concerned Amy. After leaving Hannah, we saw Amy talk to a very uncomfortable Nina as she revealed that Hannah’s parents weren’t really in Hong Kong, and she wouldn’t reveal anything else, and she asked Amy to talk to Hannah. We saw that Bright convinced Ephram to go and see Madison’s band without telling Amy, and he told him that lies of omission weren’t lies, which was incredibly stupid advice for him to give him, and Ephram was incredibly stupid to heed his advice. What made it worse is that Bright was Amy’s brother, and he was telling his sister’s boyfriend to deceive her, which made both of them look incredibly thoughtless and inconsiderate. What was really stupid about it all is if Ephram had asked Amy to go with him to see Madison, she might have been a bit upset at first, given her insecurities about Madison, but if Ephram was honest with her and if he told her he loved her and Madison was no threat whatever to her and to them, I feel certain that she would have been okay with it, but him lying to her and sneaking off to go and see Madison’s band was incredibly wrong, thoughtless and stupid. I hated seeing Ephram lie to Amy, telling her he was sick and breaking their date, especially since Amy was so excited and happy about spending time with him and she looked so beautiful. We then saw Ephram and Bright at the coffeehouse where Madison’s band was supposed to appear, and they did appear – without Madison. We saw Amanda chase Andy down at the Holiday Pageant, but he was clearly avoiding her and he quickly found a way to get away from her. I loved seeing Harold dance with Amy as they decorated their Christmas tree, and I was amazed that Tom Amandes has a really good singing voice, but their reverie was interrupted by an upset Hannah, who, upon being questioned by Amy as to why she told her that her parents were in Tokyo when they weren’t revealed that her father was dying from Huntington’s Disease. Then when Amy acted in a shocked manner after receiving this devastating news, Hannah asked her to not act that way because she didn’t want to be “that girl,” anymore, the “tragedy girl,” and in this one case, Hannah’s lie by omission was totally understandable. It was so heartbreaking to hear Hannah talk about her father and how close they had been and how he used to work at the library restoring rare books, and he liked the outside of the books and she liked what was inside the books and that made them the perfect fit, but now Huntington’s Disease had taken him away from her, and although he hadn’t passed away yet, he was lost to her because he couldn’t talk or think or move. We saw Harold come to Amanda’s house as in his eternal attempt to outdo what Andy had do tried to substitute using color therapy instead of music therapy to help John and he shined different color lights at a clearly agitated Amanda, and losing her patience and abandoning any hope she had for John and mostly feeling angry and hurt for Andy disassociating himself from her, Amanda angrily threw Harold out. We then saw Harold inform Andy that Amanda had fired him and that she was done, and Andy tried to push Harold to continue on with John’s treatment to the point of trying to dictate what Harold should say to Amanda to get her agree to resume John’s treatment, and he slipped and said “I'm not going to let my patient suffer just because I mishandled my relationship with his wife,” and a perceptive Harold warned Andy not to get involved with Amanda and that what he was doing was unethical and unforgivable. I hated seeing Ephram continue his deception of Amy in this episode as he asked her how her evening had been and he nervously asked her if she had tried to call him, but at that point Amy didn’t catch on to his deceptive behavior. We saw Jake try to charm the librarian as he returned some overdue books and then he met Amy for the first time, and then Amy, who got right to the point and skipping any pleasantries with him, directly asked him about Huntington’s Disease, and Jake sadly revealed that it was incurable and hereditary, and anyone whose parent had the disease had a 50% chance of getting it themselves, which concerned Amy greatly. We saw Ephram talk to Andy and in a self-fulfilling prophecy for not only this episode but future episodes, he said that everything was going so well in his life but instead of just enjoying it, he couldn’t wait to smash it all up. He then revealed that he had gone to see Madison’s band, acting on the advice of Bright, (which Andy admonished him for, pointing out the bad advice that Bright had given him in the past), but Madison wasn’t there, but he had gotten her number from Jay, and he was afraid that if he called Madison he would mess things up with Amy, and Andy wisely told him that there were some things that he didn’t need to waste his time wondering about, which was advice that he should have taken for himself and his situation with Amanda, and Ephram left Madison’s number on the table, no longer wanting to call her. I liked Amy’s talk with Hannah and Hannah was right that although Amy meant well, she was treating her situation like a project as she tried to push her to take the test to see if she had the gene to have Huntington’s Disease, and Hannah said that she wasn’t ready to take the test, which was totally understandable, but she thanked Amy for her concern and for taking her burden on and making her feel less lonely, and that Amy’s kindness and concern was pretty much the best Christmas present that she had ever gotten. We saw Amy come to see Ephram, and thinking that she knew that he had gone to see Madison, he stammered out an apology and he admitted that he had lied to her about being sick and that he had gone to see Madison’s band play, and Amy was rightfully angry and hurt by his admission. For the life of me I’ll never understand why Ephram did that, and he jeopardized his relationship with the girl he had always loved and was with now to try and contact someone who caused him nothing but pain and heartache, and he also knew that Amy felt vulnerable and insecure about his relationship with Madison, so his doing that confirmed her worst fears. Bad move Ephram, bad move. Speaking of bad moves, I hate that Andy went to see Amanda, and I hate that she said that she had fallen out of love with John, and they gave into their illicit desires and they embraced and kissed, ending a very disappointing episode on a very disappointing note. Overall, I found this episode to be a huge letdown from the previous episode and I was very disappointed in both Andy and Ephram in this episode. __________________
The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it - and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. - John F. Kennedy
There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why - I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert F. Kennedy |
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The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it - and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. - John F. Kennedy
There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why - I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert F. Kennedy |
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As soon as my son leaves today I will watch!!
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What son is over? Joe? |
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Every word, I completely agree. I find that it’s almost difficult to analyze this one because so many moments for the characters were bizarre and didn’t make any sense. I still can’t get over Bright not caring about Amy. Ephram suddenly having this interest in seeing Madison when he never cared after he knew Amy officially liked him again just blows my mind. I will never buy the theory that he was more interested in seeing Madison over being with Amy intimately in every way for most likely a second time. It will never make sense. I feel the writers wanted to keep torturing the audience about Madison because of what was to come and they used both Ephram and Andy to go there. Andy has completely lost his mind over guilt. The writers took Ephram’s curiosity way too far. During prior watches I made more excuses. Not in this one. He gets her number from that trash, Jay, and tells Andy he was tempted to call her! What? That’s disgusting. Amy never even finds out about this specific part either. Plus, there is this weird insinuation that Ephram got Amy to sleep with him and now… he’s bored? DISGUSTING. Almost like the girl puts out so next. I know that’s not the real Ephram but the writers were careless regardless. It makes Ephram look like a lying creep and waters down the spiritual beauty of Ephram/Amy. Maddening. Last edited by jediwands; 03-14-2022 at 06:39 AM |
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The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it - and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. - John F. Kennedy
There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why - I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert F. Kennedy |
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3.10 and 3.19 are really tough Ephram/Amy episodes. This is all due to Madison… the worst thing to ever happen to the series. |
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The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it - and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. - John F. Kennedy
There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why - I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert F. Kennedy |
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