jediwands

No problem!

jediwands

Thanks! You too, which I will get to soon!

The best episodes of the series feature Ephram and Amy. If you read past episode discussions (especially in S2) when there's even a hint of Ephram and Amy people are happy. They really are the heart and soul of the series.

It was definitely real and relatable.

Absolutely. What a sad situation all around. I found myself even more angry with her for putting up with him. It was interesting. Initially I felt sorry for her but the second it was revealed that she knew what he was doing and walked out acting like they were fine (even kissing up to him) I rolled my eyes. I hate when this happens in real life... staying with someone so unhealthy and toxic. I could understand it more if he physically abused her because sometimes that can really do a psychological number on you and it takes a while to leave. But given their situation, he was just a cheating jerk and she should have been so grossed out and angry the second she found out. When someone cheats, it is like mice... you see one, you eventually see many since there's usually never just one. When someone cheats, typically they are cheating more than once or eventually will cheat more. The behavior doesn't stop until you put a stop to it.

Yes, initially she showed empathy but it took her about two seconds to figure out what he was really up to.

I am with you. 3.1, he was kind of funny but 3.2, I didn't find him funny at all. Irritating, clueless, out for money and success. It is disgusting he even attempted to enter this Town and act like he could own and control it. Sadly, the Townies initially bought it too. I loved when Harold came out on top in the end and Jake was knocked down several pegs.

Proof that Harold and Amy were bent, not broken in S2. Andy and Ephram by comparison have never fully fixed things. They did in S1, by the end of S1 they were in a very good place. But then the vulnerable test of time was S2. Unfortunately that was dedicated to an adult babysitter with a teen boy and they didn't get a chance to fine tune and strengthen their fragile but fixed dynamic.



That's really true. Andy and Delia were fine while they were in NYC. Delia was too young back then to understand everything. She still never found out about Julia's adultery either. But yes, the main relationship was Andy and Ephram that needed fixed and who Julia was referring to when she thought going to a majestic town she found while traveling would be beneficial and healing for them.

Yes, it seemed like Andy had all the knowledge in this Andy and Harold scene and Harold wasn't talking pure truth. He had one point when he said at that very moment no one knew where Madison was or the choice she made. However, both Ephram and Andy could have gone back to Mindy and asked her for information and at the very least she would have contacted Madison to let her know Andy told Ephram. In the end, it was all going to blow up and Andy knew it. Andy knew it was a temporary fix to keep things peaceful between them. Harold was thinking of Amy and the Ephram and Amy love. I guess we can wonder what might have happened between Ephram and Amy had they not been given this romantic chance when they did. But then again, they were written as spiritual with an unstoppable connection... they still would have found a way even if the baby nightmare would have been revealed at the end of S2, beginning of S3.

100%.

Me too!

Definitely. Like I mentioned, I actually was more frustrated with the wife once it was revealed she knew that he cheated and had done it before. Yes, Harold has money but is not rich like Andy is so it is understandable why he had to charge and Andy didn't.

It is disappointing. Not to mention Amanda coming soon too.

It was a nice storyline. I also liked seeing where Rose worked. I don't believe we had seen her office before.

That is why I wonder when 3.2 was filmed. Was it filmed with Dark Single White Female Hannah in mind or was it changed at this point? I could easily see this episode still connected to the original plan.

At least we finally see permanent growth in S4 between them. Of course Ephram and Amy have to rebuild then as well which is another frustration and example of why the Madison storyline was the worst one of the series by far.

jediwands

She is and Emily had a blast going there. Emily has stated in numerous interviews how much she enjoyed playing Amy Abbott and Everwood in general. In this episode, alone, you can see she means every word in all of her interviews.

Agreed.

Yes!

LOL!

Yes, you're right, maybe Ephram would have been just as pissed off. I guess they could have gone to Mindy to find out where Madison was or the news that she decided to adopt. But otherwise, Ephram would have been fuming. Of course Andy could have said he wanted him to get through NYC. Andy did mention how much money he forked out for him to go there. Andy could have even said I cared about your well being and piano, I wanted you to get through it then I was going to tell you. Ephram would think of how poorly his review was and maybe it would have lightened the blow. Who knows.

Agreed! It was weird. So maybe it was the Single White Female version we viewed before the character was changed. She is sill shy and introverted, the real version, but not like how she was introduced in 3.2.

jediwands

Jerry is very good at analyzing the material and spelling it out to us.

everwoodfan52

I hope she responds!

jediwands

Should be interesting to see if she responds!

Where we got the information was on Fanbolt/Everwood/Spoilers section. One poster that had the obvious tie to the show would type everything out for us, show us the sides/transcripts/descriptions of new characters, etc. Gaby, a past mod on this board, directed me there. Alex, another past mod on this board, was already over there. So the three of us lurked over there and infrequently posted as well.

Jerry D

Aww, thanks! I'm really enjoying this rewatch and finding thematic elements in each episode.

jediwands

Me too! The music alone makes me smile.

Completely agree! This is not the Ephram we got to know. I think Rina wrote Ephram out of character for drama. She was affiliated with Dawson's Creek and it shows in S3 when she was showrunner, unfortunately.

Miss Laynie!

Right? I just don't understand him.

The Harold and Andy fans went nuts with happiness over them in this episode alone.

S1 was a long time ago when this was way more acceptable.

I did love to see this. He is not the purple-haired outcast anymore!

I love this dynamic. I think about what they'd be like in the future at family functions. Ephram lost Julia and Nina would be a perfect mother-in-law replacement.

Stop it! He looks great.

LOL.



Exactly. I wonder if he was lying about the rock thing. The wife never gave this as an excuse when she told Andy not to say anything to him so it's very possible he was lying to Andy like he lies to his wife and probably everyone else around him.

That's so true! I never thought about this.

Pretty much!

... especially in a public restaurant. Another good point.

I think he did! And he thought they never broke up either!

I agree! Man, was this scene beautiful.

What a wonderful scene.

Agreed! A really good discussion question!



It was so great to see.



It does suck because he did work so hard to make up for it senior year but just ran out of time.

She looks like she's scared of her own shadow! See, to me that is not introversion. That is severe shyness. Introversion and Shy are two different things but often they are lumped together. No, you can be perfectly not shy yet Introverted. You can be shy and not Introverted either. Or you can be both.

jediwands

Ditto!

Jerry D

It was really a twist to have Andy not willing to perform an abortion and Harold be willing to perform one (due to the promise that he had made to his father) in Season One's Episode 20. I didn't expect that at all, and it would have made sense for Andy, who Harold called a “Commie Pinko,” in that episode (in an endearing way though) and who was from New York, where abortions are more commonplace and not subject to the draconian rules about abortion that states like Texas have, to be the one to perform an abortion.

jediwands

I really love how everything once again was so tied together. Sometimes the medical cases don’t always connect with the main theme/s of the episodes but when they do, you understand it’s an important point the writers are trying to hit home.

I think this was a secondary theme. It seems the writers went out of their way to show Harold and Amy close again with a strong foundation and Andy and Ephram continue being on shaky ground without a strong foundation that should have been cemented in S2 instead of what Ephram was up to instead.

Such great points, Jerry. I totally forgot how many people along the way even instructed Andy to keep the pregnancy from Ephram. Both Harold and Edna did. Edna admits in so many words he should have told him from day one but since he did not go there, she was all for Andy letting it be. Harold pretty much said the same thing in 3.1 then emphasized it even more in 3.2. It is very interesting. I wonder what Linda, Gretchen, or even Reverend Keyes might have suggested.

So true. It was nice seeing Harold win round 2 (the most meaningful round) with Jake. Jake manipulated him to get his father’s clinic in round 1 but round 2 Harold won the entire competition.

These two are so beautiful.

That’s exactly right. Madisongate was not just a ticking time bomb for the fans. Madisongate was a ticking time bomb for the characters as well. The fans worried about it since the S2 finale. It is a haunting, slow destructive process the entire way through. It felt like having a wound and needing to take a Band-Aid off. Instead of ripping the Band-Aid off and feeling a pain initially that will immediately go away we had to endure taking the Band-Aid off in the slowest most annoying way possible as the pain was felt from start to finish.

Nina always gives such helpful advice.

I didn’t like how Bright looked down on community college. Going to a community college for two years is a very popular route many people take advantage of because you save a lot of money that way and you still get to graduate from the college of your choice you transfer to.

I remember so many people were fearful of Hannah joining a triangle with Ephram and Amy. Thankfully it never happened. Rina was fresh off of Dawson’s Creek (she wrote 4 episodes) so it wouldn’t have surprised me. Thankfully, it never took place because she focused on Hannah being a version of herself. Unfortunately, Greg Berlanti admitted he was going to play with Ephram and Hannah should a S5 have happened but it would have been short-lived. I don’t care if it would’ve lasted one episode, Bright would have beat up Ephram with one hand tied behind his back and Amy would have been devastated too. What a scary thought.

Yes, I remember watching this episode for the first time realizing it was still all about pins and needles because the bomb was going to explode before the season concluded and we just had to sit back and wait for it. What a joke. What a frustrating, avoidable joke.

As always, Everwood is hauntingly realistic with high quality sparks everywhere.

jediwands

I totally forgot Harold calling Andy a “Commie Pinko" in that episode. LOL.

jediwands

True. The sports-angle I personally understood. I was an athlete and played both soccer and basketball all my life and would have played one or both in college if not for serious knee injuries towards the end of my career. So for me it wasn’t academics that prevented me from playing sports, it was actual serious knee injuries. The disappointment caused temporary situational depression even.

During his conversation with Rose he doesn’t mention sports, he mentions academics and being disappointed he didn’t get in because he worked his rear off senior year. I understood his disappointment though to go from a sports scholarship to not even a four year college but a stop first at a community college. But at the same time, I’m not necessarily sure he understood what a community college is all about. A community college is a stepping stone and actually in this day and age you can receive plenty of really good degrees simply by going to a community college. I know plenty of people with doctorate degrees that started out at a community college. I just don’t think he understood the concept and what it was all about and wish it would’ve been explained to him from the start.

Jerry D

I went to a Catholic High School, and we had a Community College across the road from our high school, and the teachers at my high school used to talk sneeringly about that Community College like it was inferior to a regular college, which it wasn't at all. The name of the College was Bergen Community College and they would refer to it as Bergen Comedy College. My sister went to that Community College and then she graduated from it and went on to a State College, and she got her four year degree, (after getting her two year degree from the Community College) and she had nothing but good things to say about that Community College.

So my point is (in my usual long-winded way ) that maybe Bright's teachers might have put down Community College too, and I think that a lot of people may have misconceptions about Community Colleges.

jediwands

Makes complete scene. Especially in the past.

Bright also had a very weird emotionally unstable advisor.

Nowadays you can literally become an RN nurse simply by going to a community college. It is completely different now.