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Old 09-23-2015, 02:29 AM
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Some season three background.

All the writers, except one, including Kevin Williamson quit after season two. Season three started like a ship without a rudder. They were all over the place. The new writers did not know where to go with the story and in my opinion did not really have a feel for the show.

This is why there were many aborted story lines and story lines that went no where. Jen the cheer leader, Jack the football player, Pacey and Jen, having a friends with benefits relationship and some others that escape my memory at this time.

The actors were in rebellion. For example they wanted Pacey and Jen to have a scene where they had sex in a bathroom stall. Both Joshua Jackson and Michelle Williams refused to do the scene.

Things were so out of control and directionless production was actually shut down. in a writers brainstorming session Greg Berlanti came up with let's have pacey kiss Joey. All the other writers were against it. they couldn't believe that Pacey would screw over his best friend. Eventually Berlanti won them over. With in my opinion the help of Paul Stupin and maybe the network. I strongly believe the network was involved, but I can not prove it at this time.

By having pacey kiss Joey; they more or less repudiated the first two seasons. The original conflict within the show was the triangle between Joey/Dawson/Jen. Which girl would win the affections of the Dawson, the character the show was named after. Would the girl who secretly had a crush on Dawson for years or the new girl with the fast background win Dawson.

Pacey at this time was intended to be more or less a background character. His main role was to be the best friend of the hero. Meredith Monroe (Andie) was brought to the show specifically to be Pacey's girlfriend ane the was they were written season two; She was going to remain Pacey's girlfriend while Dawson struggled to figure out who he wanted; Joey or Jen.

Kevin Williamson in my opinion wrote one of the best romances ever depicted on TV.

When they came to season three and the decision to have Pacey kiss Joey; Andie was a major obstacle. The writers now had to break up a very popular couple. So with lazy writing and a heavy handed strike they took Andie totally out of character and changed her into a cheating lying ****. Pacey who was now the offended party was free to pursue Joey.

The entire fabric of the show was now changed. The triangle shifted from Joey/Dawson/Jen to Pacey/Joey/Dawson. Pacey as originally written would not have abandoned Andie nor go after his best friends girlfriend.

By having Pacey kiss Joey; en and Andie more or less became baggage, with really no purpose any longer on the show.

Pacey kisses Joey has been hailed as the move that saved Dawson's Creek. In fact a book was written about it by Jeffery Stepkoss (sp) who was a writer on the show. "Bllion Dollar Kiss" The show was changed and you now had Pacey/Joey; which several fans wanted. Mainly because Katie and Josh dated season one.

While everyone was patting themselves on the back for the brilliant move, the viewership of the show quietly diminished by 1.4 million viewers per episode. While many fans were elated by Pacey kisses Joey and the complete ruination of Andie, many fans walked away from the show in disgust over season three.

Season three also started the show to, in my opinion, the fatal down slide of Joey's Creek.

Season four which they thought would be the last season of Dawson Creek; Meredith Monroe was brought back to reprise her role as Andie and again season six when the show was ending they brrought back Meredith Monroe to play Andie. To me that was an indication they knew they made a mistake.

Kevin Williamson ended the show Pacey and joey which thrilled many viewers, but also angered many viewers who rightfully expected the series to end Dawson/Joey. among the Dawson Joey fans were Williamson's mother and Greg Berlanti who started the mess.

If one is a fan of Everwood you can see where Berlanti avoided several of the mistakes that were made in Dawson's Creek season three.

Season three was misguided and started the slow downfall of a once wonderful show. I can not even watch seasons five an six and the episode "Downtown Crossing is one of the worst episodes in the history of TV

My two cents.

Last edited by TL22; 09-23-2015 at 03:12 PM
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:17 AM
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Some season three background.

Pacey at this time was intended to be more or less a background character. His main role was to be the best friend of the hero. Meredith Monroe (Andie) was brought to the show specifically to be Pacey's girlfriend ane the was they were written season two; She was going to remain Pacey's girlfriend while Dawson struggled to figure out who he wanted; Joey or Jen.

I can not even watch seasons five an six and the episode "Downtown Crossing is one of the worst episodes in the history of TV
Wow, that was a lot of good info, thanks for that. You brought up a lot of great points. I totally agree that Pacey was intended to be the hero's best friend and I did not care for the shift from Dawson to Joey as the main focus of the show. (Joey's Creek ) It also would have been great if they had kept Pacey and Andie together as it could have made for some great angsty moments for Dawson, trying to come to terms with the fact that he sees his best friend in this great loving relationship, but yet he himself can't seem to seal the deal or make up his mind.

As many times as I've watched DC, I have only watched the "Downtown Crossing" episode twice and still can't figure out why the writers felt that would be an interesting story to tell or how it really fit into the rest of the storyline, but that's another season so I won't rant about that here

I agree that the writers had some very sloppy writing and there were so many inconsistencies and it bugs me every time I watch the show. One example is Pacey's birthday, in S2 he's having a dock party for his birthday and everyone is in bathing suits enjoying the warm weather and then in S4 his birthday is in the cold season. It's so cold in fact that Pacey's dad takes him his jacket and gives Pacey his gloves. Now I'm getting way OT, sorry guys. I'll stop now.

As far as the Jen being a cheerleader and Jack being a football player in S3, I kind of agree that it didn't make a lot of sense. As much as I enjoyed the fact that Jack was a football player as that did make for a pretty good storyline (Dawson's news footage about the gay high school football player), I was disappointed that they turned the group around from the original storyline where they aren't really joiners and don't attend dances or get involved in school activities. I found that part believable as not every high school group are into that. And Jen as a cheerleader and the way they had that whole less than enthusiastic group of new cheerleaders was just plain weird IMO.
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Old 09-23-2015, 10:30 AM
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I hated all the inconsistencies too. Another thing about Pacey's birthday is that he was still 16 in A Cinderella Story episode 3x17 and he turned 18 in 4x12. When did Pacey turn 17? It's a minor thing but when you put all the writing errors together it bugs me.

Don't get me started on Downtown Crossing.
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:29 PM
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Which episode is Downtown Crossing? Must be S5 or 6 which are the seasons I don't care about that much. Well, many shows have wierd, unfinished storylines all the time. DC isn't the first to have that happen, writers try out storylines or experiment and if it doesn't work out it's scrapped. Happens all the time *Shrugs* To each their own but S3 is still my favorite season.
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:53 PM
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Downtown Crossing is a Joey centered episode in season 5. No other cast member is in it, but Joey. She gets robbed at night, but then the man gets hit by a car, I think. Haven't seen it a lot. Anyway, she goes to the hospital, meets his wife and daughter and makes parallels with her own father.

The thing is they use the whole episode for Joey with no major followup, no major story with her father. And I have no problem with Joey, but I can see why some would be annoyed with the show turning into "Joey's Creek." especially with this episode.

Season 3 may have it's problems, but it's nothing compared to S5 to stay kind of OT.
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Old 09-23-2015, 08:45 PM
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Oh yeah. I had a feeling it was the episode that Joey was robbed in but I wasn't completely sure. I think I only watched that episode once, back when it aired in 2001 lol. S5 is the worst season IMO, so no wonder I didn't remember the episode. The only thing I really remember about S5 is that Mitch died smh (ugh why) but that's it. Nothing else to really remember. I also agree the show started to focus on Joey way too much. Even though I couldn't stand Dawson after S3 the show is called DAWSON'S Creek and I do remember in S6 Dawson was missing from many episodes Pacey and Jen were absent from alot of episodes too. I heard Joey is the only person to appear in all the episodes.
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Old 09-24-2015, 06:13 PM
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To me the show was always Joey's Creek. In the beginning I didn't watch for Dawson's sake I watched for hers, and according to the media at the time, many others did too. I wanted her with Dawson in S1 because I was rooting for her, not because I cared about Dawson. But I'm more of a champion of the underdog. During the original run I stopped watching after the second-to-last episode of Season 4, and only began watching again in Season 6, from Clean and Sober to that episode after Castaways. Then, of course, the finale. But I did keep up with the show through the message boards, and I did finally watch the entirety of Seasons 5 and 6 on Netflix. It didn't bother me so much that Dawson and everyone else weren't shown as much, it bothered me that the show itself sucked. I agree that Season 5 was the worst season, with Downtown Crossing being the stupidest, most pointless episode of them all. I remember reading about everyone's frustration with it, but I didn't see why until I watched it. No one was exaggerating. The first few episodes of Season 3 were pretty stupid. I was so glad when they dropped that Eve storyline. It was so unbelievable.

I didn't like Henry either. He and Jen had zero chemistry.
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Old 09-25-2015, 09:56 AM
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Joey was my favorite and I still liked her this season, I hate how selfish and annoying Dawson got.
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Old 12-28-2020, 12:22 AM
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I don't like how andie was ruined in this season I think that was the worst part, more than joey/pacey/dawson.
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I liked some of the pj ngl but after cinderella story it got so iffy. Joey started getting annoying as well. I hated how they ruined andie, hated it and to add to that pacey started to regress. I think everyone suffered from season 3 except jack and jen. I loved henry, i know unpopular opinion and i would have liked pacey/jen, but of course, they dropped that too. I also didn't like that whole are you ever going to love me like a soulmate conversation and the ultimatum. I don't like how joey changed from who she was and so did andie as well as pacey.
agreed the way the show went about doing it was so OOC

in my most recent re-watch of season 3 I did like Cinderella Story and Neverland but after that no

also totally agree about the show becoming too focused on Joey in the later seasons and she became a total Mary Sue (definitely prefer her the most in the first 2 seasons)

about Downtown Crossing it’s an unpopular opinion but I think it’s actually a standout episode of season 5 (would it have maybe made more sense in like the earlier seasons when her father was actually on the show? probably...okay I’m seeing now that it led into her going to find him at the end of season 5 - I forgot)
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Old 02-27-2021, 02:53 AM
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Season 3 was so uncomfortable to watch. If it wasn't for my curiosity of whether Dawson and Joey would end up together, I would've dropped the show that season. I ended up being disappointed anyway ...
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Old 03-06-2021, 02:42 AM
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Season 3 was so uncomfortable to watch. If it wasn't for my curiosity of whether Dawson and Joey would end up together, I would've dropped the show that season. I ended up being disappointed anyway ...
Absolutely. I never understood the sudden surge of PJo shippers, it’s like everyone completely blocked out the fact that Pacey was Dawsons best friend since they were kids, he lived through their whole epic romantic journey and even pushed Dawson to be with her. When he was supposed to help him out as a true friend, all of a sudden he falls in love with her? Where in reality does that happen unless a guy is a total douchebag of a friend?

So out of character. Why did everyone get mad at Dawson and they expected him to “accept” that? Oh sure, my best friend moves on the love of my life behind my back and now I’ll be happy for them? Of course, he should move on from it and let them be, but stay friends? Absolutely not. Everyone in this World would be very hurt and would maybe stay courteous with them but not friends. Obviously any PJo shipper never lived through something similar or they just would do something like Pacey did and wouldn’t care about their friend.

Love has nothing to do with it. You choose to fall in love, otherwise if this was ok, then everyone should just do whatever they want and hurt anyone they want without boundaries. Life doesn’t work that way.

I felt like ok, they wanted to somehow relive DC as a tv show with a new twist, but making it look like it was destined to be, true love and crap like that when they hurt Dawson to the core, that was ridiculous.

Finale I’m not going to even bother mentioning, forced and silly.
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Old 03-07-2021, 10:52 PM
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Absolutely. I never understood the sudden surge of PJo shippers, it’s like everyone completely blocked out the fact that Pacey was Dawsons best friend since they were kids, he lived through their whole epic romantic journey and even pushed Dawson to be with her. When he was supposed to help him out as a true friend, all of a sudden he falls in love with her? Where in reality does that happen unless a guy is a total douchebag of a friend?
I couldn't understand it either. To me, it felt like what was happening in front of me was very wrong (at least in a real life scenario). I don't see how sneaking around behind your best friend's back with the love of their life as something romantic. It felt tainted from the moment it started. Knowing that the foundation of their relationship was built upon sneaking around, lying, and completely destroying Dawson's feelings felt so wrong and was difficult to watch.

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So out of character. Why did everyone get mad at Dawson and they expected him to “accept” that? Oh sure, my best friend moves on the love of my life behind my back and now I’ll be happy for them? Of course, he should move on from it and let them be, but stay friends? Absolutely not. Everyone in this World would be very hurt and would maybe stay courteous with them but not friends. Obviously any PJo shipper never lived through something similar or they just would do something like Pacey did and wouldn’t care about their friend.
Yep well put. I also think back to the scene in the finale when Joey, Pacey and Dawson were on the phone to each other after watching that episode and everyone is all smiling and happy with each other...so ridiculous . In reality, that would not be the case. Dawson would be way too hurt to keep in touch and act like nothing happened. Dawson saw Joey as the love of his life. He wanted to be with her. She refused. And not only did she refuse but went off with his best friend. And this best friend knew probably more than anyone else that Dawson loved Joey more than anything in the world but obviously didn't care. But yeah of course Dawson should be fine with all that!

You could argue that Dawson saw her as the love of her life but she didn't see him that way. Ok fine, let's say that is the case. Why tease out their relationship for six seasons as being these soulmates and star crossed lovers and then pull the rug underneath them right at the end? If they always had the intent of a Joey/Pacey endgame why break them up so brutally in season 4? Why also have her reject him very brutally in season 6 when she tells him that being with him doesn't feel right even if everything is perfect and saying that it's not going anywhere and then literally straight after goes to another man (Eddie)? You could argue that she was in denial about her feelings but those actions do not reflect someone in denial but rather someone who is actively and directly rejecting a person. The dialogue to me demonstrates that she was very much conscious of what she was doing and owned how she felt. She was very firm and blunt and delivered her proclamation without a shred of hesitation.

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Love has nothing to do with it. You choose to fall in love, otherwise if this was ok, then everyone should just do whatever they want and hurt anyone they want without boundaries. Life doesn’t work that way.

I felt like ok, they wanted to somehow relive DC as a tv show with a new twist, but making it look like it was destined to be, true love and crap like that when they hurt Dawson to the core, that was ridiculous.
So true. And there were sooo many other options for them to create drama. There was no need to go down the 'two best friends pining over the same girl' route. The Dawson/Joey/Pacey triangle completely changed the show and went into a direction which was no longer the reason why I started watching it. It was so different that I feel they should've just started a completely new show . Unfortunately it also completely ruined my view of Pacey and I really liked him up until the point of him going after Joey. By him going there, he displayed the qualities of the worst type of friend. The great friendship we got to witness between Dawson and Pacey who were like 'brothers' as Pacey put it, was completely shattered by this horrible storyline and was to never return to be the same again.

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Finale I’m not going to even bother mentioning, forced and silly.
Lol enough said.
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Old 09-19-2021, 09:12 AM
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Okay, so it's many MANY years since lots of us endured the unfortunate downfall of this show and I still feel the need to come here + share my view that season 3 was one of the most disappointing and fraudulent seasons of television I have ever sat through in my life.

Andie's character assassination had SO much to do with that and I was pretty much emotionally done once that happened. How can you go from Pacey and Andie declaring their undying love for each other in the season 2 penultimate episode after he helped her through the toughest struggle of her life, and then witness them breaking up just a few months later because apparently some stranger at rehab was too hard for her to resist?

I feel that they did tremendous harm to the amazing character development of Andie during season 2 with this turnaround. Meredith Monroe worked her butt off to be taken seriously as a new cast member, specifically playing somebody who had mental issues unlike the other more lucky girls in the show whose biggest problems involved their love lives.

But the fact that the the writers of season 3 - many of whom were completely in the wake of Kevin Williamson's departure and also with the support of Greg Berlanti who judging by season 4's opener was a huge P/Jer -- the fact that these people (and I don't include Kevin in this, I must stress) felt they had to destroy her love for Pacey and her self-esteem in an off-screen betrayal that was clearly done just to make the transition to Pacey and Joey's relationship easier... Well, it says it all, really.

And the handling of Dawson and Joey's relationship in this season was equally terrible. NO WAY would Dawson have rejected Joey sexually (does nobody remember him making a move on her in the boat in a late season 2 episode? What kind of bad continuity... ) and NO WAY would he treat her like his property. This is also character assassination and it was clearly done to appease Pacey fans who wanted him to play the romantic hero by the end of the season.

That episode near the end of the season where Dawson and Pacey compete against each other in the boat race is just offensive to Dawson's character on so many levels.

But I've said before and I still believe it: when they lost Kevin Williamson, they lost the plot entirely.

It became JOEY'S CREEK. Dawson became the pathetic crying bystander who had to painfully watch the love of his life run towards his best friend. Sorry, but I never signed up for this.
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Old 02-18-2023, 02:13 PM
  #104
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Andie McPhee Deserved Better (BLOG)

Andie’s character assassination was among the worst I have ever seen on a TV show

A good read

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https://www.hardwayhq.com/single-pos...es-hot-take-17

Hey gang, first time in a long time. My friend Bankie Bruce wrote a blog on the destruction of the Andie McPhee character and why the Season 3 writers gave her a point of no return within SIX EPISODES. Please give it a read and long live the Creek.
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