Discussion thread #1, topic 6: Anyone here not like Joey with Dawson OR Pacey?
 

I am curious to find out if there was anyone out there that was secretly hoping that Joey would not end up romantically with either Pacey or Dawson?

Another question I will pose to both ships... If your ship did not end up winning, would you rather have seen Joey end up with the other guy rather than ending up alone? For example.. P/Jers.. If Joey did not end up with Pacey.. Would you rather have seen her at least end up with the other end of the triangle (that, of course being Dawson) or would you have rather seen her end up alone if she could not be with Pacey? Same goes for D/Jers.. Yes, your ship did not come through, but are you okay that she ended up with Pacey rather than her ending up alone? Or do you feel like if she could not end up with Dawson, then you rather have seen her end up alone?

[ 02-13-2004: Message edited Cleveland Rocks ]

If Joey had not of ended up with Pacey I would have prefered her to end up alone...

I do ship Pacey and Joey but the reason I wouldn't say Dawson is because they were not meant for each other. I agree that there friendship was good in the begining but there was to much baggage between them and as a couple I don't think it would have ever worked.

That is just me.

I don't have a huge problem - outside of my intense shipperdom - with Joey having ended up alone. However, I think after six seasons, the payoff of her choosing, once and for finally, had to be made. Without it, it wouldn't have felt complete.

Now, as to part two of the q, I would not, under any circumstances, have been happy if Joey had ended up with Dawson. I would have much rather seen her alone. And though it's in large part to the fact that I sit aboard the Good Ship PJ, it's also because I find DJ so ill-suited to each other, and so far removed from having romantic feelings for each other, that it seems way too ludricrious.

Which I suppose is the Shipper in me talking, but c'est le vie!

[ 02-13-2004: Message edited CharieRed ]

I agree with this. I wouldnt have necessarily had a problem with Joey ending up alone, it just wouldve been "eh". Just unfulfilling. I always enjoyed the triangle do I was looking to a final resolution.

IN the same vein though, to me, Joey ending up with Dawson wouldve been pretty much just as unfulfilling as JOey ending up alone. There just was so much proof over the course of the show that JOey and Dawson cant carry a relstionship so them trying to give it *another* go in the finale would just set up for another let down.

As for Pacey, by the time the finale rolled around it was either Joey or no one because late season 6 drillied it into our heads that it was Joey or no one for Pacey, she was "the one" for him and anyone else wouldve been unfufilling so I wouldve been happy with him alone and happy and loking forward to meeting someone new down the line if not with Joey.

Absolutely! For two people who everyone under the sun tried to push together - to the point of absurdity (Pacey telling Joey they needed their shot? Calling them Romeo and Juliet? Please, just shoot me!) - the "fates are against us" argument holds no weight. They weren't together cause neither was committed enough to trying to make it work. They didn't just quit when the going got tough; they didn't even let it get tough before throwing in the towel!

I agree. Say what you will about how Pacey acted in S5 - and how his actions didn't correlate to him telling Joey he never got over her - but when he told her that in "Clean and Sober" I didn't have a doubt in my mind that it was true. Besides Josh Jackson totally selling it, his "white noise" explanation made absolute sense to me and explained away every wrong turn that was taken from Coda on down in regard to his reactions. Having him end up with anyone other than Joey in the finale just wouldn't cut it.

I am one of those people.

Even though I am a D/J'er, I still feel that the ending in "Joey Potter and the Capeside Redemption" was a better ending than the Series Finale. It gave me much more a sense of "hope" for each character....and didnt deal with the whole "messy" choice thing for Joey. Joey choose both of them, and at the same time neither of them....I liked that.

I also think it would have been more relaistic for her to end up with neither Dawson or Pacey. I mean, who really ends up with a guy they dated when they were 16 or 17? Or comes back home, after 5 years of being away, and hooks-up once again with their high-school boyfriend?

Joey spent most of the series trying to "run away" from her childhood, and from Capeside, and BOTH Pacey and Dawson represented her childhood..and Capeside. And I think it would have been more fitting if she finally escaped, and ended up with neither of them romantically.
And, obviously, she would not have ended up "alone"...with her looks, she would have most definintly had a boyfriend/husband eventually.

Great topic Michelle. I would have much preferred that Joey would have ended up either alone at the end of the series run, or with someone other than Dawson or Pacey, for a variety of reasons. I don’t think that she deserved to be with either guy after all the crap she put them through, and I hate the fact that right down to the last second of this show, everything still focused on the Capeside IT girl.

I also would have rather seen all three characters in other happy and stable romantic relationships in the series finale instead of getting what we got: where we saw that neither Dawson or Pacey had ever really gotten over Joey, and so much of the show still came down to who she would choose, and which shipper group would “win,” so I think it would have been much better, and fairer to all of the fans, if Joey ended up with neither of the two guys that had competed for her heart when they were teenagers.

I think the idea that you never get over your first love, or in the case of Dawson’s Creek, with Dawson and Pacey, one of your first loves, because Joey can’t really be classified as either Dawson or Pacey’s first love, as I would call Jen Dawson’s first love, and I would call Andie Pacey’s first love, is a depressing and untrue concept. People do get over their first loves, and they move on with their lives, but in many ways, Dawson and Pacey never got over Joey, and I find that sad. Pacey was having an affair with a married woman and got beat up for it, and Dawson wasn’t really seeing anyone, and he was wrapped up in his television show, and they both declared their undying love for Joey in the finale (to various degrees) so I just didn’t like the whole concept that Joey was the one and only woman for both of these guys.

You're right, that would be depressing and untrue. And I think that's part of what the show tried to see with DJ for so long - that they were "it" for each other, in spite of the fact that they only dated for 4 months when they were 15. That's why a DJ ending would have made no sense to me.

As to PJ, I don't see them as some sad tale about not getting over a high school love, as they show went out of their way to say it was more than that, and had been two years out of high school, at that. And not just for Pacey, if you believe (as I do) that the show set-up Joey's abandonment and commitment fears long before her final choice. It was never about not loving Pacey (though I definitely agree she put him thru the wringer), it was about fear - a fear she finally faced and decided to conquer 5 years down the line.

I don't think Pacey was Joey's first love, nor was she his. But they were each other's true love, the "one." Sure, it's not the most common thing in the world to find that person at an early age, but it's not unheard of, either (especially considering they did revisit them in late S6).

Not that this movie is a good analogy, but I can't help but think of the movie "Broadcast News" where, at the end, it shows the proverbial "triangle" characters about 5 years later meeting up with each other, and each of them has ended up fairly happy, productive and each of them either married, engaged or in a relationship with someone else...so Holly Hunter never ended up choosing either Albert Brooks or William Hurt. All 3 moved on and seemed fairly happy and content..but still friendly to each other.
I like that.

Good post, Jerry..

As per your usual self, [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] you bring up excellent points..

Even though I fell in love with P/J, I honestly still have some slight lingering feelings about if Joey did deserve Pacey. I mean, he was such a great guy to her. He was so sweet and treated her like a queen. He adored her in a way that most women could only dream of finding such a perfect gentleman for true love like Pacey was to Joey. Good guys are very hard to find! And I think Joey found this with Pacey but sometimes did not fully appreciate what she had with him.

As a whole, I don't feel that way.. Because I love P/J. Just certain glimpses and brief situations that will always annoy me from time to time. A couple examples would be in season four whenever the Dean really took a liking to Pacey during that college dinner and Joey was angered put in that shot to Pacey about what college he was attending, knowing full well that he was rejected by every college that he applied to.. Another being whenever she breaks things off with Pacey in season six to go back to the pathetic, boring and horrible Eddie.. Whenever Pacey grabs her hand to STILL dance with her after she gives him that BS about not feeling it, I melted and felt so incredibly sorry for Pacey. Even though I know that Joey was just running from Pacey because he was the real deal, and she was running to Eddie because he was just a fantasy, it still fumes me every time I see her break Pacey's heart during that episode.

Like I said, certain instances will always fume me regarding Joey and a few of her inappropriate actions towards Pacey, but then again, relationships aren't perfect and the people in those relationships are not perfect so mistakes are made and humanity is definitely a pass to make mistakes. So, that is what I chalk those times that I want to shake Joey for, because 90% of the time, I loved every part of Pacey and Joey... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

I'm glad that Joey ended up with Pacey in the end. But if they would not have ended up together, I would have preferred to see her alone in the finale than with Dawson.

I also get what some of you are saying about wanting to have all three of the triangle members end up seperate but happy. This ending, of course, is the most realistic..

However, with TV, it is all about being pretty unrealistic. I mean, it does seem off the wall that both Dawson and Pacey would still carry something for Joey after all of those passing years, but TV is all about drama and with that, goes some unrealistc stuff.

I think the way the triangle was played out, Joey almost had to chose one of them. The writers made such a big deal about this never ending triangle and the only somewhat satisfying and ending result based on the writers need to put this triangle in such bold letters was to have Joey finally make a definite decision and I think the writers would have felt that Joey chose neither would be a cop out sort of move based on the intensity in which they created the triangle.

Great post, Michelle. The examples that you cited in your post are the reasons that I feel that Joey didn’t deserve either Dawson or Pacey. When she told Pacey she “didn’t feel it” after she found out that Eddie was back, after basically leading Pacey on before that, I just felt that was incredibly heartless of her to do, and I really didn’t feel she deserved to have a considerate gentleman like Pacey in her life. Plus, the concept of her dumping Pacey for that jerk Eddie really ticked me off, after Eddie had walked out on her without saying a word to her, and he had never treated her very well to begin with, and yet, she still went back to him. Unreal. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] If Eddie was a “fantasy” to Joey, she really needed to find some better fantasies! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

I never felt that Joey didn't deserve Pacey. She may have mistreated Pacey and Dawson at times, but they mistreated her too at times. It's not like Pacey and Dawson were perfect boyfriends and she was the only villain. Pacey and Dawson made their fair share of mistakes in their relationships with Joey too, IMO.

I think so, too. As much as we're discussing the realism of Joey ending up with neither Dawson or Pacey, this was a show that lived off the triangle as the one sustaining storyline of the series. For her to pick neither would have ultimately been unsatisfying. And, yeah, I say this from the secure place that I was happy she picked Pacey, but really? Had she ended up alone? I would have been as annoyed as if she had ended up with Dawson.