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Old 04-20-2015, 03:26 AM
  #58
ollibear
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Joined: Sep 2012
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Originally Posted by lavitaebella (View Post)
This makes me happy, I love making others happy.
Having you join us is wonderful!

After you bumped the Ecce Mono thread, I realized that I should go back and watch a few older episodes and do the same. It's fun to look at them with fresh eyes.

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I hadn't realized that this is the episode that's kind of the beginning of the end for Emmett and Bay, but I guess it is. Although, I think the beginning of the end is when they got back together. I agree with you, I don't think she ever got over his cheating, even though she said she did.
Yes. I am feeling that Bay still struggled with insecurity, after they reunited.

Perhaps in Bay's mind, she thought, "Well, I cheated on Tank, but I never loved Tank. Does that mean Emmett never loved me?"

That's one of the reasons I am hopeful that Bay will recognize, after cheating on Emmett, that sometimes a perfect storm of events do all converge and the unthinkable happens. Bay loves Emmett, and yet, she cheated on him. Perhaps that will allow Bay to see that Emmett loves her, too--that his cheating never meant he didn't.

Bay hasn't faced that she cheated on Emmett yet, but I hope she will.

Even if Bay chooses to look at the sexual act as a rape (and I hope she doesn't, because I see nothing positive for Bay by looking at it that way), but even if she DOES choose to look at it as a rape, I still hope that Bay faces that she cheated on Emmett with her other choices.

Bay was in a long-distance relationship with Emmett, and they were having problems. She was in a long-distance relationship with Emmett by her OWN choosing, and they were having problems.

That's NOT a time to turn to your ex-boyfriend for comfort and support. That's not a time to share all of your current relationship problems with your ex-boyfriend. That's not a time to get drunk and flirt with your ex-boyfriend. That's not a time to sit on your ex-boyfriend's lap and let him put his hands all over you.

When Bay explained to Emmett that the sex with Tank was partly her fault, too, I hope she apologized for making all of those poor choices.

All I ever heard Bay say was, "I need you to know the truth and be okay with it."

I feel that it would have gone a long way with Emmett, if Bay had also said, "I made mistakes, and I am sorry." I never heard Bay say that, and she did make mistakes.

Bay won't let Tank take the blame for what happened between them. Bay won't take the blame herself. No one is taking ownership of the mistakes.

Emmett cannot forgive anyone, if no one accepts responsibility. And yet, Emmett has been hurt. He needs to forgive.

It's a mess. But I do think it has been a mess from the moment Bay and Emmett got back together. When Emmett tells Bay, "This isn't how it was supposed to happen between us," in Love Among the Ruins, I think that was a HUGE sign that their relationship was not going to work this time, and it didn't.

From the moment Bay and Emmett got back together, things were off between them. To me, most of it stemmed from the fact that Bay didn't truly trust Emmett.

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I wonder if her not getting into Pratt was what made her take the fall for Daphne, in some weird way. I never got the impression she really wanted to go to LA for herself, she was just going to follow Emmett there. But not getting into her dream school must have sucked.
I never got the impression that Emmett wanted to go to LA. Bay totally maneuvered that decision. Emmett was EXTREMELY hesitant to even consider it, and he only did it, finally, at Bay's insistence, over and over again.

I don't think not getting into Pratt is what made Bay take the fall for Daphne. But I do wonder if Bay would have been willing to give up Pratt for Daphne.

Bay may not have been willing to give it up for Daphne. I would like to think that she wouldn't have been willing, but then again, I would like to think that Bay would never make that kind of sacrifice, no matter what her plans for the future.

Bay certainly gave up Emmett quickly enough for Daphne. We never even saw Bay think twice about that decision. We never saw a moment of regret. The first words out of Daphne's mouth were, "If you do this, you won't be able to go to LA with Emmett."

And Bay quickly said, "I know," and it was obvious she didn't care.

Honestly, I am still in shock that being with Emmett meant so little to Bay. It is probably the main reason I totally understand Emmett's decision on the beach. Why should Emmett distract himself from his studies now, when being with him meant so little to Bay then?

It's strange to me. It truly is as if being with Emmett meant nothing to Bay, and I don't understand that.

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I just pictured that, and the image is too sad. It better not become a reality! *looks to writers*
Yeah, Bay has to have a better future than that.

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I personally think a third time at a relationship is too much, even if it's a couple other than Emmett and Bay. Something must have happened to drive them apart not once, but twice.
Really?

I am the EXACT opposite. I believe any relationship worth having is worth trying again and again and again and again and again and again and again, ad infinitum.

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My turn for full disclosure! (To a point, this is the internet.)

Part of the reason I'm so anti-cheating is because part of the reason my parents got a divorce is because one of them cheated on the other. They are much happier apart, and I'm not sad about their divorce, but I still do not think one of them should have cheated on the other.

I don't understand why people just don't break up with their significant others first. Obviously a marriage is a lot more complicated than people who are dating (especially if there are kids involved), but still.
Ideally people would break up with their significant others first, but life is complicated. And sometimes people cheat and they don't even want to break up at all.

This show has helped me to solidify my feelings on cheating. It hasn't changed my feelings. From the time I was a little girl, I have always felt this same way. But after watching Switched at Birth, I have looked at the issue from almost every angle. This show sure has delved into the topic of cheating, more than any other I know.

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I don't think being drunk is ever an excuse -- if someone had, say, crashed my car and used the "I was drunk" excuse, I wouldn't let them off the hook. Bad example, but it's been kind of a long-ish day and I don't have the energy to think of a better one.

I personally feel like what happened with Tank and Bay was sexual assault. Even if a person was drunk, that doesn't mean someone could take advantage of them -- in this case, it doesn't mean Tank could take advantage of Bay, and I don't see her sleeping with him if she had been sober. I know Tank had been drinking, too, but from the flashbacks, she had more to drink than he did. When the episode first aired, I thought someone had slipped something in Bay's drink and that's why she had trouble remembering and things like that. And yes, Bay did make the decision to drink, but she was among friends, where she probably thought she would be safe and not have to worry about anything.

I never really got the impression she still had feelings for him. I know he did for her, but I thought she only wanted to be friends with him.
A lot of people feel as you do. I understand, but I disagree.

People choose to get drunk to release themselves from their inhibitions. It doesn't matter what Bay would have wanted when she was sober, because Bay chose to get drunk. What matters is what Bay wanted while she was drunk.

If Bay wanted sex with Tank, while she was drunk, then it was not assault.

If Bay did not want sex with Tank, while she was drunk, then yes, it was assault.

Unfortunately, Bay cannot remember what she wanted while she was drunk. Daphne asked Bay if she could have wanted sex with Tank, and Bay said that she didn't know.

Tank said that she was into it, and I believe him. I just don't see it as assault, at all.

I do feel sad for everyone involved, though.

In her interviews, Lizzy Weiss was correct. Alcohol is the real villain, as it is in so many scenarios. It's sad.
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