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Old 04-08-2015, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by lavitaebella (View Post)
Aw, I'm so glad I joined the discussions here! Even though we disagree about a lot of things, it's so nice talking to you and everyone else on here!
You have made me feel so good. Thank you!

This episode, It Isn't What You Think, certainly sets the ball rolling down an awful path for Bay.

This episode includes several pivotal moments:
  • Bay chooses to put her attempt to rekindle a friendship with Tank, ahead of her connection to, Emmett.

  • Daphne chooses to vandalize a construction site with Nacho, causing HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars in damages, while Bay is out to dinner with Tank.

  • Once Bay sees that her friendship with Tank is securely restored, Bay continues to send Tank a mixed message, by confiding her fears to him about her potential to develop aneurysms, something she never shared with Emmett.

  • Although the scene was cut from this episode, Bay further weakened her connection to Emmett, when she didn't even bother to reply to his texts that evening, after her dinner with Tank. Lizzy Weiss tweeted a snippet of the script, illustrating the cut scene:
    When Bay & Emmett arrived at Carlton the morning after her dinner with Tank, Bay apologized for not answering any of Emmett's texts that evening, and Emmett joked with Bay, asking where he should send the wedding gift for her and Tank's upcoming nuptials. Emmett even asked Bay to share with him, about her weird morning, and about what had been bothering her for days, and Bay still didn't tell Emmett anything about the possible aneurysm, although she had gone to see a doctor about it THAT morning, and although she had already shared the information with Tank.

    Emmett did tell Bay about his acceptance to USC though.

    I really wish Bay had been sharing things with Emmett, back then. This episode is where they got off track, as a couple, and they never completely recovered from their disconnect, then Bay took the fall for Daphne, and that decision added to their disconnect, even more.

This episode is when everything turned.

Originally Posted by lavitaebella (View Post)
See, looking back at the season now, I agree with you 100%.

But when the episodes were actually airing, I thought for sure she was going to go with Emmett.
I think Bay thought she was going with Emmett, too. She seemed determined to make it happen.

But if Bay had truly wanted to go with Emmett, she would have gone. She wouldn't have let Daphne, or anything, stand in her way.

A part of Bay must not have been ready to leave her home and family just yet. She must not have been ready to make that kind of complete commitment to Emmett.

It's understandable, she just turned 19. I don't think Bay would have felt a need to be the one to step in and take the fall for Daphne, if Bay had been ready to let her family go. If Bay had been ready to start her own family with Emmett, then she would not have felt a need to be the one to rescue Daphne.

Bay would have let someone else tend to Daphne.

Originally Posted by lavitaebella (View Post)
I think she pushed him to go because she knew it would be a good fit for him. I can see it being a good thing, him going to LA.
Yeah, I agree with that. Bay knows Emmett well, and she seems to know that film school is what he is meant to do.

Emmett certainly seems to have found something he loves doing. He seems completely fulfilled throwing himself into that world.

I think back to Emmett's desire to drop out of high school, during their sophomore year, and his claim, to Bay, that he didn't need to study.

I remember Bay's words to Emmett:
Maybe because that's how you graduate, so you can go to college and you can work somewhere other than a mini-mart, while you wait for your photography career to take off.
Now, Emmett has graduated high school. He has been accepted by two prestigious universities. He is attending one of the best film schools in the entire country, USC, and he is rocking it, even as a freshman. Plus, film is absolutely his passion.

And Bay has graduated high school, but then, she made an awful decision. Bay spent the last year serving a sentence for Daphne's crimes. She was rejected by Pratt. Bay hasn't applied to any other colleges, and all applications, whether for school or employment, ask about a criminal record.

I don't want Bay to end up working at a mini-mart, for the rest of her life.

One day, I really hope Bay says to Daphne, "You should not have allowed me to take the fall for you." And even more importantly, I hope, one day, Bay realizes she should not have offered to take the fall for Daphne.

Originally Posted by lavitaebella (View Post)
Yeah, I agree with this. I'm going to ignore the whole cheating thing for a second; it seemed like they had a much better connection way back in the first season with the art and stuff.
Yes. I agree.

Emmett's cheating caused a lot of problems for them. I really believe that the reason Bay & Emmett did not have a good connection during their second relationship is because Bay still could not get past Emmett's cheating, not completely. I believe that is why Bay did not trust Emmett enough to share anything private or intimate with him over the last year. I believe that is why she looked for other causes to put before him, because she didn't want to put him first anymore. It was too scary to make him that important in her life again. And I believe that is why Bay could not let go of Tank. He was her security blanket, and Bay felt like she needed a security blanket, in order to take a chance with a cheater, like Emmett.

On the beach, Emmett was right. They shouldn't have to try to make it work. It should just work. And it didn't work, so they needed to let each other go.

In an interview, Lizzy Weiss said that once Bay cheated on Tank, she understood what Emmett had done, and Bay was able to put the whole cheating thing behind her. But I don't believe she was able to put it behind her.

Yes, Bay understood that you could really care about someone (as she did with Tank) and she understood that you could cheat on the person, without meaning to hurt him. In that respect, I believe it opened a door to Bay dating Emmett again.

But Bay knew that she never loved Tank in that way, so I think she was still wondering how Emmett could have cheated on her, if he loved her the way that she loves him.

Now, if instead of looking at it as a rape, if Bay would just open her mind to the possibility that she cheated on Emmett, when she had sex with Tank, then she would see that a person can totally love another person (as she does with Emmett) and that person can still be so insecure and confused that something can happen (like it did between her and Tank AND like it did between Simone and Emmett).

I think that knowledge, if Bay will admit to it, could be what allows Bay & Emmett to get it right, if they give their relationship a third go.

Originally Posted by lavitaebella (View Post)
That's an interesting way to look at it. I never thought about it like that. I do agree that they hadn't been clicking for the last year. I don't think a relationship is easy 100% of the time, but if you have to force it, that's not good.
I've gone back and watched their breakup scene on the beach umpteen times, and I believe that is what Emmett is saying. He is telling Bay that they should not have to struggle as hard as they have been struggling. He is saying that their relationship should not have to be forced, in order to make it work.

It should just work.

Emmett was not scared or unwilling to DO the work, but it should work. Since it wasn't working, Emmett wasn't willing to force it, not with so much at stake. He has his entire future riding on this college education. To Emmett's way of thinking, their entire future is riding on it. It's not like Bay, with her felony conviction, is in a good position to support them.

I went back and watched the episode Protect Me From What I Want yesterday. That's the episode that aired on Valentine's Day 2012, where Bay & Emmett declare their love for each other, for the first time. What Emmett wants, what Emmett desperately needs, is a happy family. Bay has always had that. Emmett hasn't.

What Bay has always wanted, at least in the past, is to belong. Bay has wanted someone to choose her, to put her first. But Emmett did that, from the moment he made his mistake with Simone, Emmett recognized it, apologized for it, and put Bay first, from that moment forward. But I don't think that was enough, because Bay didn't seem really happy or connected to Emmett, during their second relationship. I don't think they could recover from Emmett's original mistake.

If they are both struggling to the point of unhappiness in trying to connect, and I believe that they were, then Emmett is right. Now is not the time for Bay to move to LA. They missed their window of opportunity.

Perhaps what Bay is going through with Tank will help her understand that Emmett did love her, despite his cheating on her with Simone. I don't know.

Originally Posted by lavitaebella (View Post)
This is something I've never really thought about, how society doesn't let people off the hook for other things they may do while drunk. I do think the law is good, because I took that class and have watched way too SVU.
I can understand that perspective, but I disagree.

I feel strongly that if a person makes the choice to drink, then, whether male or female, the person should be responsible for their choices while drunk.

Originally Posted by lavitaebella (View Post)
Oh, my mistake, I misread that first one the first time!

I don't think Bay should have cheated on Tank with Emmett, it was so wrong. I know she didn't go to meet him in the field and plan to have sex, but it's still wrong. IMO, she should have stopped it, broke up with Tank, then slept with Emmett. I like that she felt guilty for cheating on Tank with Emmett, I felt like he was all "we're meant to be" and stuff, and that doesn't fly.
Emmett felt guilty for cheating on Bay with Simone. I guess I don't understand why you feel Bay is mature and Emmett is immature, when they both did the same thing.

But in full disclosure, I do not believe cheating is a terrible thing. Of course, it is preferable not to do it, and I have been lucky and strong. I never have. But I don't think awful things about the people who do, and a lot of people do cheat.

Heck, most of our Presidents have cheated on their wives. So many people cheat.

I just read some cool stuff from Anne Lamott tonight. She's a great writer. Her words are not specifically about cheating, but they do explain why I don't feel it is such a bad thing:
# 8. Families; hard, hard, hard, no matter how cherished and astonishing they may also be. (See #1 again.) At family gatherings where you suddenly feel homicidal or suicidal, remember that in half of all cases, it's a miracle that this annoying person even lived. Earth is Forgiveness School. You might as well start at the dinner table. That way, you can do this work in comfortable pants. When Blake said that we are here to learn to endure the beams of love, he knew that your family would be an intimate part of this, even as you want to run screaming for your cute little life. But that you are up to it. You can do it, Cinderellie. You will be amazed.

# 1. All truth is a paradox. Life is a precious unfathomably beautiful gift; and it is impossible here, on the incarnational side of things. It has been a very bad match for those of us who were born extremely sensitive. It is so hard and weird that we wonder if we are being punked. And life is filled with heartbreaking sweetness and beauty, floods and babies and acne and Mozart, all swirled together.

# 4. Everyone is screwed up, broken, clingy, and scared, even the people who seem to have it more or less together. They are much more like you than you would believe. So try not to compare your insides to their outsides. Also, you can't save, fix or rescue any of them, or get any of them sober. But radical self-care is quantum, and radiates out into the atmosphere, like a little fresh air. It is a huge gift to the world. When people respond by saying, "Well, isn't she full of herself," smile obliquely, like Mona Lisa, and make both of you a nice cup of tea.
So life is hard, people are precious--it's a miracle we even exist, and we are all screwed up. To me, when mistakes are made, like cheating, we need, I need, to forgive completely, with a heart full of love, and I do.

Originally Posted by lavitaebella (View Post)
I personally put physically cheating on someone above emotionally cheating. But I also think what she did with Tank is wrong, sharing all the information like that. Her and Emmett hadn't been getting along for awhile, and I'm sure she thought of Tank as a friend and friends tell each other things. But Tank is her ex, one who still had feelings for her. I think the whole bed and stars thing could be attributed to her drinking, I don't see that scene happening if she were sober. Did Tank comforting her while she's in his lap happen at the party, too?
Again, humans lie and humans cheat (both physically and emotionally), and I love humans, so I don't see it as the end of the world.

Personally, emotional cheating would sting me a little more than physical cheating, because I pride myself on being someone that my partner can open up to emotionally and trust, but ultimately, all that really matters to me, is that my partner's needs are met, both emotionally and physically, however he needs to meet them.

As for Bay sitting on Tank's lap, that was because she was drunk, too.

So do you excuse any choice Bay made while drunk?

To you, does the drinking completely absolve Bay of sharing things with her ex-boyfriend Tank, that she should not have shared while she was in a relationship with Emmett.

If a man drank, and had a girl sit on his lap, putting his hands on her inner thighs, would his drinking absolve him from cheating, too?

Or do you just believe it is women who are absolved of poor decision making while drunk?

Originally Posted by lavitaebella (View Post)
If Bay had been talking to someone who wasn't her ex, say Daphne, would you still see it as emotionally cheating on Emmett?
To me, Bay sharing the information with Daphne would be breaking a confidence with Emmett.

In that case, Bay would be sharing information that Emmett expected would remain private, just between him and Bay, as a token of their intimacy.

It would hurt the trust between Bay & Emmett, for sure, but not as much as if Bay shared the same information with Tank.

Tank is a person with whom Bay shares some romantic and sexual feelings, and he is a person who still feels MANY romantic and sexual feelings for her. That's what makes Bay sharing the information with Tank emotional cheating, and not simply the breaking of a confidence.
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