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Old 04-06-2015, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by lavitaebella (View Post)
Disclaimer: I have not watched the season four episodes since they aired and my memory is very bad. And I also need to rematch the entire series ASAP. But that's a given, this show is great.
Isn't it?

I'm so glad you've joined our discussions here!

You have helped me figure out my thoughts. I've really struggled with all of these conflicting feelings after Season 4A. It was such a tough season to get through emotionally.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by lavitaebella (View Post)
I honestly thought she was going to go to LA with Emmett. Like if Daphne didn't exist, I would have thought she'd go. Although if Daphne didn't exist, Emmett and Bay would have never met...
I could see it that way. I haven't looked at it that way yet, but now, I will give it some thought.

I just never thought Bay really wanted to go to LA with Emmett. To me, if she did want to go, nothing would have stopped her.

All along, I believe Bay expected her parents or her financial situation would keep her in KC. Then, when neither of those things stopped her from going, Bay quickly found another way to postpone the move (Daphne).

I do wonder why Bay pushed Emmett so hard to go to LA, even before she made the decision to join him. Maybe it is just because she thought it would be a good fit for him.

I don't think Bay was really happy with their relationship the second time. She definitely took Emmett for granted and treated their connection rather cavalierly. Perhaps Emmett made the mistake of being at Bay's beck and call for so long that she failed to properly appreciate him. That would be understandable, with the way he made himself subservient to her, after his cheating.

For a long time, I have been thinking that Bay was too scared to go to LA with Emmett. There's this huge part of me, even now, that really believes Bay is 100% relieved to be off the hook and not need to go to LA. Sure, she is hurt. She has mixed feelings about it. But there's this part of me that believes Bay is glad Emmett made this decision, because she wasn't ready to make the move. I even think we will see her character express gratitude to Emmett, one day, for that.

There's this line, when Emmett returns for his surprise visit, and he tells Bay, "You broke our plans once, what is to say you won't break them again?" To me, that line says a lot. Emmett realized that it wasn't Daphne. If Bay really wanted to go to LA with him, nothing would have stopped her. In Emmett's mind, Bay didn't want to go. And although Bay had conflicting feelings, ultimately, I think Emmett is right.

Originally Posted by lavitaebella (View Post)
It was so incredibly selfish, I can't even... I didn't like Daphne by this point anyway, but if I had, I'm sure I wouldn't like her anymore after that. After Daphne agreed with what Bay "did" Bay looked shocked, and I interpreted it as her not actually thinking Daphne would go along with her.

I'm glad Toby and Emmett were mad at her, and I wish more characters would be angry with her, too. Like oh I don't know, John. Girl gets off way too easy.
I definitely agree with all of that.

I'm glad that you saw Bay's shocked look, too. I completely saw that.

I wish more people would have seen it.

I don't think Bay thought Daphne would go along with her. It's such a betrayal of their friendship that Daphne did.

Originally Posted by lavitaebella (View Post)
The thing that comes to my mind, maybe because it's so recent, is the fact that he put Bay's personal experience into his movie. I don't care if he was affected by it and therefore he attempted to justify it when Bay talked to him about it. It wasn't his experience to put onscreen. It was way too personal, he even told Sky he didn't want Bay to see it because it was so personal (yeah, personal for her) and at the very least, he should have talked to Bay before he did it. Hopefully he would have listened if she said no, but I don't that happening... I see it as him thinking what happened with Tank was her fault and he was using his movie to get back at her or something. I get him needing to process his feelings, I just don't think a film that will be seen by strangers without her consent.
I definitely don't think Emmett did it to get back at Bay.

He should have talked to her about it first, though. I'm glad he apologized for that.

That "personal" line sure does illustrate how far apart they both are. Emmett didn't share anything about his decision with Bay, because by that point, the two of them were not sharing anything at all.

I didn't get the impression that Emmett mentioned the word rape in the movie. Most shorts average five minutes in length.

Emmett started his story with the day the couple first meet on the beach. He ended it with the man questioning if the woman cheated on him, because she never got over his sleeping with "Sierra" so long ago. I don't see this short as being one that delved into Bay's personal story with Tank.

I know Bay felt as though Emmett had invaded her privacy and shared her story, and Emmett DID betray the intimacy he once shared with Bay, by putting their story out there.

But to me, that story is so generic, that I just don't see it as being something anyone would associate with Bay, other than Bay. (And Skye, but only because Emmett confided all of the other details to Skye. But that's no different than Bay sharing her intimacies with Tank.) Both Bay and Emmett have betrayed their intimacy with each other for a long time now. Bay started the betrayal, by sharing personal information with Tank, and Emmett continued it by opening up to Skye.

Originally Posted by lavitaebella (View Post)
And also, his line about how "relationships should just work" didn't help. It shouldn't be fighting all the time, true, but adults work at their relationships.
Yeah, a lot of people were upset with Emmett for that line.

"But we shouldn't have to try to make it work."

It's interesting. It didn't bother me, because I took his words to mean "we shouldn't have to force our relationship to work" which sounded reasonable, in my opinion.

But if people interpreted the line to mean that we shouldn't have to work on our relationship, then they must have thought Emmett had gone stark raving mad, because of course, relationships require work.

I do find it interesting that in the opening episode of Season 3B, Bay told Daphne, "Tank and I never really clicked like that. I kept trying to make it work, and it never did."

So on some level, Bay has to understand that a person can try and try and try to make a relationship work, and sometimes, two people just don't click.

To me, that's what Emmett was saying to Bay on the beach. He was saying that they have been trying to make it work for the last year, and they just haven't been clicking.

Originally Posted by lavitaebella (View Post)
I couldn't help but think that Bay looked crushed after her and Emmett ended things and he looked like he had much better things to do, maybe that's my opinion.
Oh, absolutely. I do agree with that completely.

Emmett has found his niche in film school. He is really happy and able to totally throw himself into this art form that fascinates and compels him.

Plus, he has found a woman, in Skye, who makes him feel wonderful and shares the same interests with him.

Emmett has all of his needs met, and Bay is returning home to KC, as a convicted felon with no plans for school, no job, few friends. Bay needs to make some better choices for herself.

Originally Posted by lavitaebella (View Post)
So I took a sexual assault counseling course when I was in college. We learned that if anyone has any amount of alcohol in them, they are unable to consent, and that makes it rape. Tank was also intoxicated, so that's where it gets fuzzy.

I see what happened with Tank as rape and personally do not see that as her cheating on Emmett. From the flashbacks, she was way too out of it to give consent. To me, cheating is a conscious decision, and I don't see that decision in her deciding to sleep with Tank. But again, Tank had also been drinking (although he didn't seem as out of it as Bay) so it's not all black and white.
Yeah, I am grateful to Switched at Birth for calling my attention to the ways that laws and policies are being written. I am looking for ways to effect change, because I disagree. I believe if a person chooses to drink alcohol, then the law should allow that person to consent.

Society does not let intoxicated people off the hook for any other choices that they make while drunk, so I do not understand why society would absolve people for this choice. But over the course of human history, there have been many bad laws written. It shouldn't surprise me. If you believe the law is a good one, then we will just have to agree to disagree.

You shared how you feel about Bay and Tank's sexual encounter, but how do you feel about my other questions?
  1. So how do you feel about Bay cheating on Tank with Emmett?

  2. And how do you feel about Bay emotionally cheating on Emmett with Tank (going to dinner with him and his dad, sharing information about her aneurysm, telling Tank about her relationship problems with Emmett, letting Tank comfort her by sitting on his lap, asking Tank to look at the stars on the ceiling with her, while she was in bed, etc.)?
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