[xmag]

I don't remember the title of the previous thread. But it's there that we can discuss the plots, questions about the stories or the sci-fi of Roswell.

Like, how does Max heal people ? Why couldn't he heal grandma Claudia ?

[Kathy W]

Hey, xmag! Good question about healing and Grandma Claudia. Story-wise, I'm wondering if there were just too many things wrong with Grandma, or alternately, if Max wasn't aware of what he was capable of. Reality-wise, I don't think the writing team knew where they wanted to take the healing ability yet.

I have more questions. For example, Max was supposed to be the only one who healed, to the point where Michael couldn't heal his own black eye....yet Michael healed River Dog's ankle. And in the Pilot, when Max jumps up to go to Liz, did Michael know that Max was going to heal her, and if so, how? Had Max healed before? His ability to heal didn't seem to come as a shock to Michael and Isabel.

Questions, questions.

[shapeshifter]

I think I recall Max saying he was able to heal Liz because it wasn't her time yet.
Trying to heal the old guy in the 3rd season didn't have a very pleasant outcome.

When Max, in an early episode, was trying to explain things to Liz, he said that "we" can manipulate matter, and then he did the trick with the clay sculpture. So they all knew they could do that.

But just like I could potentially have learned to play the violin, but never did, so Michael was never going to be a great healer.
But it's more than that, because in the cancer ward, Michael wished he could have helped Max heal the kids. But then maybe he just didn't have enough self confidence and practice. Healing River Dog's ankle is a lot less complicated than removing cancer from a body.

Originally Posted by Kathy W ...Reality-wise, I don't think the writing team knew where they wanted to take the healing ability yet.

I agree. And it's kind of cool to think of the character development and maturity as an expression of where the writers did choose to go with things--even though some may not have cared for the direction.

[Misha]

Well, here's a very interesting toppic!! I might stick around

Healing... there's a lot I've been thinking about that. These are just sort of random ideas, so let's see if they make sense

First, I don't think Max knew he was *healing* Liz in Pilot. When Liz confronts him later on with her list of questions, the thing goes like this:

from ************** MAX: We can connect with people, as uh, you know. We can manipulate molecular structures, and...we can.... LIZ: Wait, what does that mean? [Max goes to a clay sculpture on a nearby table and moves his hand in front of it, the shape changes] MAX: That's, uh, that's how I healed you

So, as far as Max was concerned, he hadn't used a unique healing ability, he had used his very "normal" manipulation of molecular structures.

When he tells Liz that he's not God,

MAX: Liz, when I saved you, it was because you were shot, and there was a bullet in you. Something was happening to you that wasn't supposed to happen. It was before your time. But I can't just heal people. I'm not God.

(Um... actually Max, you can just heal people... )

So, it seems like Max really didn't think of it as healing, at least not till that point.

If Michael and Isabel thought it like that, maybe Michael assumed that was what Max was going to do. And maybe some form of healing actually can be done by manipulating molecular structures.

I remember back in the day that some theorized that their powers were abilities that they all had, but in less degree. They compared it to drawing: We all can draw, just that some can do it really well, and some should stay away from all pencils and ink for the sake of humanity... That way you can explain why Michael was able to heal the ankle, and why Tess was able to heal Max in Ask Not, though it may also imply that healing a black eyes was impossible to Michael because it couldn't be done in the same way as an ankle... Or maybe his own emotional state didn't allow it.

This brings the question if all of them would be able to heal a bullet wound, though, or if Max is particularly good at manipulating molecular estructures... hhhmmmm... And if they can, why didn't Michael tried to heal Isabel from that bullet wound in Chant Down Babylon?

So, in retrospective, it may seem that Max was really healing Liz (with his unique ability, not the molecular thing) but he wasn't aware of it. He just assumed he was using the other power. He was definitely surprised to see a silver handprint on Liz's stomach, so I would assume he had never healed anyone before, at least not to the extent or degree of leaving a handprint behind.

Anyway, I think by the time of the Phoenix Hospital incident, Max knew by then the extent of his powers and his own unique abilitiy to heal sickness. How he found out? The Destiny book? Nasedo? His powers just getting stronger?? Who knows, but by that point Max knew he could do it. Otherwise, he wouldn't have risked going there, entering the hospital, just to say "um... guess not..."

Or maybe I just think too much about this...



Misha <<-- who is so darmned happy that FF is back!!!!

[xmag]

So, as far as Max was concerned, he hadn't used a unique healing ability, he had used his very "normal" manipulation of molecular structures.

yes, but I think he is the only one who is gifted enough in this area to heal people who are sick or seriously injured. They can all manipulate, but that doesn't mean that Isabel and Michael can heal. I can write, like everyone, but I am not Shakespeare. Same here.

And if we believe the show, healing goes with the seal. When Michael had the seal, he was able to heal Isabel.

About grandma Claudia, maybe he couldn't heal her because it was her time to go. LIke Clayton. Nothing was wrong with Claudia. She wasn't sick, hurt or anything. It was just time for her and when Max says that he isn't god, he probably meant that he can't save someone from old age.

[Citrus and Vine]

Thank you for the new thread, xmag!

Grandma Claudia had a stroke. Liz asked Max to help her. When Max told Liz that he couldn’t just heal people and that he wasn’t God, he meant that he didn’t have the capacity to heal every person in the world and keep them from never dying. He couldn’t change the fact that people age, grow old and die. As he said, he wasn’t God.

When Max healed Clayton, who was old and infirm, all the energy Max used to heal Clayton depleted his own body to such an extent that his own body died, decayed and turned to dust.



The aliens had powers to do things in ways that humans can’t do things. In real life and in the story of Roswell, things have limits and limitations.

Max, Michael, Isabel, and Tess were able to revive Nasedo, using the healing stones, after Nasedo had been shot and appeared to be dead. After Whitaker fatally injured Nasedo, they weren’t able to revive him. Max couldn’t save Nasedo, using his own healing powers. The group couldn’t bring Nasedo back to life, using the healing stones. Too much of Nasedo’s body was internally damaged. He couldn’t be brought back to life.

Likewise, Max knew that he couldn’t extend Grandma Claudia’s life indefinitely, with his healing powers. He understood that people die, when they are old. Max attempted to revive Grandma Claudia, so that Liz could say goodbye to her. But Max wasn’t able to bring Liz’s Grandmother to consciousness. Too much of Grandma’s Claudia’s brain had been destroyed by the second stroke. The living part of Grandma Claudia could no longer communicate with people. Grandma Claudia’s spirit though, was able to stand outside her unconscious body and speak to Liz and be seen by Liz and Max.



Max, Michael, Isabel, and Tess had healing powers. Max, Michael, and Tess were shown to individually heal people. Michael and Tess healed minor injuries. Max had greater healing powers. But Max couldn’t heal every person. He couldn’t bring Alex back to life. Alex was too far dead for Max to revive, just like Nasedo was too fatally injured for Max to revive.

Michael healed River Dog’s ankle. Michael felt connected to River Dog, because River Dog had helped him and had helped the others to heal Michael. Michael was emotionally in tune with his desire to help heal River Dog’s ankle.

Later, Michael wasn’t able to heal his own black eye injury that Hank had inflicted on him. Michael was afraid to use his powers, because he was afraid of what he might do to Hank. Michael knew that he lacked control of his powers, in contrast to Max and Isabel, who were raised in a loving, caring, protective family, and who had good control of their own powers. Although Michael had been able to heal River Dog’s ankle, Michael couldn’t heal his own eye, even though he wanted to. Michael was emotionally conflicted about his injury, because Hank’s abuse had escalated to leaving a mark on him. Michael needed to let people know that he needed help in handling Hank. So, unconsciously, Michael needed people to see that Hank had abused him. Michael needed help. Not being able to heal his eye was a way for people to see that he needed help.

When Hank threatened Max and Isabel with the gun, Michael had more trouble using his powers to try to stop Hank. He smashed a chair at first. Eventually, he succeeded in using his powers to get the gun away from Hank.

When Michael was upset that Maria was taking an interest in Billy, Michael’s powers involuntarily exploded the eggs and the sugar containers.

Roswell shows that whatever talents and powers and abilities people have, sometimes those powers don't work. In Roswell, like in real life, there are reasons why people sometimes can do certain things and sometimes can’t. Roswell shows that sometimes, people don’t have control over some things.


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[Kathy W]

Originally Posted by Misha So, as far as Max was concerned, he hadn't used a unique healing ability, he had used his very "normal" manipulation of molecular structures.

That would fit with the injury. A bullet hole is a breakage problem, a hole in lots of different things--blood vessels, organs, tissue--that shouldn't be there, so manipulating molecular structure would close that. But it wouldn't make up for blood loss and sheer trauma, so I'm still curious as to how Liz was absolutely fine immediately afterwards. It would seem there's a bit more to it than Max thought at first. Which brings me to...

(Um... actually Max, you can just heal people... ) So, it seems like Max really didn't think of it as healing, at least not till that point.

It was established that the hybrids hadn't used their powers much at all, so it's reasonable that there are all sorts of things they could do that they didn't know about, or knew about in some fashion and didn't completely understand. I always liked that aspect of the show--the self-discovery, even though they found it frightening.

I remember back in the day that some theorized that their powers were abilities that they all had, but in less degree. They compared it to drawing: We all can draw, just that some can do it really well, and some should stay away from all pencils and ink for the sake of humanity...

And that would be me. (I still can't figure out where my kids got their drawing ability, but it definitely wasn't from me.) I like this explanation; it makes sense, and it covers a lot of territory.

Originally Posted by shapeshifter Healing River Dog's ankle is a lot less complicated than removing cancer from a body.

True. And Michael was feeling quite an emotional connection to River Dog at that point, which may have helped. I wonder if that has anything to do with healing--the willingness to form an emotional connection with the one you're healing?

[Misha]

Hey guys!

Well, most people interpret Max's statement about Grandma Claudia and being her time like a natural process. But some people -like me- think that what he meant is that he couldn't heal her of a natural death. Because a bullet isn't natural, it is not supposed to happen to you, no matter what your age is. That's why he could heal it.

Following this line of thought, then if Grandma Claudia had been shot, he would have been able to heal her. But, if Liz had had a stroke, he wouldn't have.

Because if Max feels that strongly about being your time, then he wouldn't have healed cancer, which is definitely a natural death, even if you are a kid. Like Liz pointed out, that would be a Higher Power decision, which falls into the category of "being your time".

But then again, I'm playing with the idea that Max didn't know he was healing with a unique healing power, only that he was manipulating molecular estructures Am I making sense??

xmag, that's an interesting idea, that healing goes with the seal. For that matter, would any of the pod squad inherit Tess's powers now that she's dead? Or would only Max's powers transfer? Or anyone's powers who has the seal would transfer?? hhhmmm....

I do agree that Max is the only one who can heal that well, I was just saying that he didn't know it was unique when he was saving Liz.

Misha

[Citrus and Vine]

When Max told Liz that he couldn’t just heal anyone and that he wasn’t God, I don’t think he meant that he couldn’t save anyone from strokes or cancer. Max told Liz that it wasn't her time. She was young. He was able to bring her back to life.

I think Max meant that he knew old people eventually die, no matter how much effort goes into saving them. Max understood that death is an inevitable end to old age.

Max healed the children of cancer at the hospital. The way he healed them left a handprint on them, just as a handprint was left on Liz, when he healed her. Children have the capacity to heal and improve with treatment.

A stroke is caused by blockage or rupture of a blood vessel. Strokes can damage part of the brain, which in turn impairs a range of functions including movement of body parts and communication. Some strokes cause severe injury and death. People who are younger are more likely to recover from stroke, than people who are old.

Grandma Claudia’s doctor initially expected her to recover from her stroke. The second stoke damaged so much of Grandma Claudia’s brain that her doctor believed that she would die. Liz could see it in his eyes that he didn’t expect her to live. When the brain and body are too damaged, recovery isn’t possible. Likewise, after Alex died, he couldn’t be brought back to life. Also Alex had been dead for an extended period of time, before Max tried to heal him.

The children with cancer were young. They had been receiving medical treatment. Max was able to heal them of their disease. He collapsed from his efforts. It took him time to recover his powers.

Max healed Clayton, who was a very old man. Older people’s bodies don’t have the healing capacity to recover from injury or disease that younger people have. There was so much wrong with Clayton’s aged body that Max used up all of his energy in healing him. Max’s own body died in the process of healing Clayton. Max’s spirit and memories transferred into Clayton’s body.

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[xmag]

xmag, that's an interesting idea, that healing goes with the seal. For that matter, would any of the pod squad inherit Tess's powers now that she's dead? Or would only Max's powers transfer? Or anyone's powers who has the seal would transfer?? hhhmmm....

This episode, WDAMYK, confirmed some theories I had about the antarian royalty, based on the european royalties in the past. When Max died, Michael inherited the seal. Not Tess, who was still the queen, after all. Not their son (probably too youn). So it would leave Isabel, since she was the king's sister.

BUT it was Michael who inherited the seal. Why ? In my opinion, only males inherite the throne. On Antar, Zan and Ava were married but they didn't have children. As a king, Zan knew that he needed an heir. If he didn't have an heir, the throne would go to... his sister's husband (this is based on the fact that on Earth, Michael inherited the royal seal, not Isabel).

So whoever was married to Isabel was the next king. Now, imagine if Khivar had married Isabel ? We also know that Vilandra and Khivar met during peace treaties. Meaning that Zan and Khivar were already at war when Vilandra and Khivar met. It was in Zan's interest to preserve the throne in case he was killed and without an heir so he married off his sister to his second in command. Who might have been a noble, too.


About the seal allowing to heal, well, Michael was able to heal Isabel when she was shot, and that was because he had the seal. And wasn't there a scene where Max was trying to heal a light injury but couldn't ? I could be wrong since I haven't seen this episode in a long time but I am almost sure that there was such a scene.

And healing is oftenly associated with royalty, in Europe. It's like a divine power.

[Misha]

Hey people!

Kathy!, as usual, we posted at the same time I like the emotional bit you put in. After all, we do know that emotions can trigger the podsters powers, or at least Michael's in Behind the Music. It is reasonable to assume that emotions would help with healing which, as far as we know, always implies a connection being formed.

xmag, though I like your theory about Vilandra meeting with Khivar at peace treaties, there's no canon on that. We have assumed that Khivar and Zan have been enemies for a long time... or we have assumed that Vilandra met Khivar when he was her brother's enemy. But we really don't know. For all we have seen, Khivar and Zan could have been best friends and then all went to hell...

BUT! I do like your scenario, and I think it's very plausible. I read someone's theory that the seal by-passed Isabel because she was dying herself. But it doesn't explain why Tess didn't get it, being she the Queen. I mean, as far as we know, Rath didn't married Vilandra -was just going to- so he wasn't part of the Royal Family. I guess your theory works better

And I didn't know that bit about kings and healing! COOL!

Misha

[Citrus and Vine]

Regarding the Seal of Antar, the direct Royal Antarian line was the important factor in determining who was meant to have the Seal.

Max lost the Seal, when he died and went into Clayton's completely human body.

Baby Zan didn't get the Seal, after Max died, because he was completely human. Kivar didn't want baby Zan, because, baby Zan, being completely human, could never be a true Royal lineal Antarian ruler. He couldn't inherit the Seal. He lacked Antarin cells.

Michael developed the Seal on his chest, after Max died. Everyone could see that Michael was an interim leader, and not the direct, lineal Royal Antarian ruler.

After Max grew Antarian cells in Clayton's body, Max was able to take the Seal away from Michael, because Max was the true King. Max wore the Seal of Antar "stenciled to his brain".

Isabel nearly died, shortly after Max died. She didn't develop the Seal of Antar. Evidently, the Seal couldn't be in someone near dying and unconscious. The Seal then developed in Michael, who had the Seal, until Max took it away from him.


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[xmag]

Originally Posted by Misha xmag, though I like your theory about Vilandra meeting with Khivar at peace treaties, there's no canon on that. We have assumed that Khivar and Zan have been enemies for a long time... or we have assumed that Vilandra met Khivar when he was her brother's enemy. But we really don't know. For all we have seen, Khivar and Zan could have been best friends and then all went to hell...

In the episode "Interruptus" (Isabel and Jesse's honeymoon), Khivar is present and is telling how he met the love of his life :

KIVAR: Hey, it's all right. Really. Look, to fully understand what happened, you gotta go back to the first night we met. See, we weren't supposed to fall in love. Our families were enemies, we were at the palace, and it was one of those rare moments where they were trying to find peace.


"Our families were enemies, they were trying to find peace..." It seems to indicate that Khivar's family and Zan and Vilandra's family were at war and that they were talks about peace. Vilandra and Khivar fell in love while they shouldn't have, because of everything happening between their families.

I read someone's theory that the seal by-passed Isabel because she was dying herself. But it doesn't explain why Tess didn't get it, being she the Queen. I mean, as far as we know, Rath didn't married Vilandra -was just going to- so he wasn't part of the Royal Family. I guess your theory works better

In my opinion, Michael getting the seal could be temporary, until baby Zan was of age. But still, none of the girls inherited the seal, neither Tess nor Isabel. For me, it's more a question of gender rather than of title : women aren't important, only males get to be leaders on Antar. Tess was used as a womb for the heir but she wasn't important by herself. Had she been important, her baby would have been too, human or not. Since the royals were 90 % human, Max's heir would be, too, so Khivar knew that.

[Citrus and Vine]

Roswell shows that woman on Antar are important.

Max, Michael, Isabel, and Tess had been known on their planet as the Royal Four. All four were sent to Earth. Even their enemies, the Skins, identified them as the Royal Four. Each of the Royal Four had status, and they were recognized as important people on their home planet.

After Tess and Max’s baby failed to have any Antarian cells, because he was completely human, Kivar came to Earth to get Isabel. Kivar didn’t attempt to have a child with Tess. Tess was royal, but she wasn’t a lineal Royal. Kivar wanted Isabel, because Isabel was a lineal, Royal Antarian. She or her child could inherit the Seal, if Max/King Zan died. Isabel didn’t inherit the Seal immediately after Max died healing Clayton, because she was unconscious and near death. The Seal couldn’t be in a dying body, near death. The Seal of Antar couldn’t be in a completely human body, either. Max lost the Seal, when he died and went into Clayton’s completely human body.



Max/King Zan became King on Antar, after his father’s death. So the crown passed on to either the eldest, lineal heir, or to the male lineal heir, as first preference. The Seal went to King Zan, as the prime, lineal Royal Antarian heir. (On Earth, Isabel was assigned a birthday that made her seem older than Max. But we don’t know whether Max/KingZan or Isabel/Vilandra had been first born, when they lived on Antar.)

Max and Isabel’s Antarian mother was important. After the Royal Four were murdered by Kivar on their planet, she got the Seal. She became in charge of the Royal allies on Antar. The Royal allies worked against Kivar. Max and Isabel's Antarian mother and the Royal allies sent the recreated Royal Four to Earth, hoping one day that the group would return to free their planet.

Max, as a fetus, had the Seal, before he came to Earth. Max's Antarian mother passed it on to him, after he was recreated as an alien/human hybrid. Max had the Seal, when he came to Earth, before he emerged from the pods in 1989, looking like a 6 year old. Age didn’t matter to the Seal. Max, even as a fetus, had the Seal.

After Max’s death, and after Isabel was near death, the Seal went to Michael, who was healthy. The Seal was on Michael’s chest, not on his brain, the way the Seal was when the true ruler of Antar had the Seal. Michael was an interim ruler. He wasn’t a true lineal King. Max was able to take back the Seal, after Max grew Antarian cells in Clayton’s body.

If Max, Michael, and Isabel had all died on Earth, Tess could have inherited the Seal, until a new lineal, Royal, Antarian heir, with Antarian cells, was created or born. Then the Seal would have passed on to a recreated Max or Isabel or to their heirs, with Antarian blood.

If Max, Michael, Isabel, and Tess had all died again on Earth, without heirs with Antarian cells or without being recreated again, then Max and Isabel’s Antarian mother, could inherit the Seal, again as an interim ruler, until a time when she could again recreate Max or Isabel, and one of them could become the new lineal ruler.

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[Misha]

I had always heard it as if things were calmed, a rare calmed during the war time! But now I see where you are coming from Yeah, it definitely makes sense now.

90% human?? Where did that come from?? Last thing I remember (but now we know my memory is not that good... ) they were "too" human -according to the dupes, who are not exactly the best source- but I can't recall anyone anywhere saying any % about it... So, was it just a number you threw in or am I forgetting something? Seriously

Misha