[shrrshrr]

Hey all - I got a message about a problem poster and logged on just long enough to notify ROCKSTAR and Chris, and to start a new thread.

I'm just not sure if I want to title it, "The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly - Edgy Films," or, "Italian Films - Viva Italia!"

Bottom line I want to start a discussion about directors like Tinto Brass and Fellini, and they both fall into both of the above categories.

I just got off the phone with a friend and he was telling me about Tinto Brass. I've only seen Caligula, and I think Fellini's films are better, simply based on that, but I love how these two directors 100% push all boundaries in film making, especially what might be considered good taste, for something...I don't know, somehow something that winds up being both disturbing and intriguing.

I don't think Italian directors are the only ones who do this (I mean, Lynch, for example), but I think that there may be a penchant for this type of film-making in Italian films, just like Film Noir is so much a French genre (even if other places, including the US, make such films).

So, discuss away - what're your views, thoughts? I won't be around to participate much but since I subscribe to the thread I can read messages.

Miss you all lots and lots and will hopefully be back soon! 'Tah!

[S.A.S.H.A.]

I saw Caligula earlier this summer. It was interesting. I kept going through it all. That's definitely one of the most explicit films I've ever seen. I doubt American movies will ever push the boundaries like films from other countries. There's far too much censorship here in the Land of the Free.

Sasha

[LittleMilkJug]

I wouldn't compare Tinto Brass with Fellini, but I must explain that I have a big problem with Brass. Not so much his films, which I don't mind, its his whole attitude. I don't like the way he uses women. Now, degrading women in film, definately didn't start with him and won't end with him. I'm very open, and mainly find arty-farty porn boring...I'm the type that finds the right 'stare' or 'intention' much more sexy, am I making myself clear?
It's just that he, himself goes around the Italian film circuit with a load of soft porn stars. He reminds me of that American grandaddy that always has a bunch of playboy bunnies with him, and they all 'do-it' in a cave... can't remember his name???
Anyway, European films are generally more liberal sex-wise, than American films, but its almost a throw-away thing. Brass underlines the sex and then its not subtle anymore.
And I think I've confused myself more than you all And boy does he like to put a female backside in his film one-sheets.

[shrrshrr]

S.A.S.H.A. - yeah, that's how I felt when I saw it in the theater for the first time back in '83, but I recently rewatched it and thought it was fairly tame. How sad is that? Quite the commentary on the development (or my experiences of) the film industry.

LittleMilkJug - you're thinking of Hugh Heffner, the creator of the Playboy Mansion (and Playboy Industries).

I don't know Brass and have only seen that one film, which I hear isn't indicative of his work, but I plan on watching Miranda really soon. I don't know, I've heard arguments both for and against the claim that he objectifies women (both arguments being rather sound and well thought out, not to mention well-explained), so I reserve my thoughts until I've seen the film - then I'll get back to you.

And you know, I'm thinking Brass is a lot like John Waters, maybe? Still, he at least tries to be like Fellini (by his own admission). And I agree with you - I don't need "arty-farty porn" (GREAT term!), but I don't care for misogyny, either. Still, every person's misogyny can be another person's sensuality...

I'm just thinking about how these women I used to know hated both Bull Durham and The Unbearable Lightness of Being, both films I absolutely adored, because they were so negative in their portrayal of women. Right, because today's woman never subjugates herself to a man. Mmm-hm. *nods facetiously* I mean, I get their point, but those are both fantastic movies specifically BECAUSE of the women. The men are merely dressing.

And a similar argument could be made for the characters in Secretary, a film which many friends of mine couldn't stand, and thought was self-indulgent in the worst way, at the very least. I, on the other hand - being a life-time cutter, etc. - LOVED it. I thought the portrayal was accurate and sensitive and showed that you're not a freak just because you're a freak, if you know what I mean.

So I guess I'm saying that I agree with you and it's a complicated issue!

Oh, and I hear/read there's a lot of peeing (female peeing) in Brass' films, not just their tushies. Should be an interesting watch...

[S.A.S.H.A.]

Originally Posted by shrrshrr S.A.S.H.A. - yeah, that's how I felt when I saw it in the theater for the first time back in '83, but I recently rewatched it and thought it was fairly tame. How sad is that? Quite the commentary on the development (or my experiences of) the film industry.

Wow, I guess so.

Sasha

[mukooh]

this thread brings back one of my favorite memories of going to a theater......the old port theater in corona del mar....cdm is just a name for one part of newport beach...the theater is still there on the pacific coast highway....sadly it's been closed for over 5 years.....it was strickly an "art house" type of venue.....the last film that i ever saw there was federico fellini's ' le notti di cabiria' which was made in 1957....there's nothing like seeing a film, by a director of such stature, on the big screen of a theater....

[ROCKSTAR]

Hey shrr, I changed the title of this to "Viva Italia!" It reflects more what the thread is about. You can, however, change it back if you want.

[shrrshrr]

No, no - this is good. It's just that when I saw the title I thought, "Wow, I don't remember starting this thread! Did someone get ahold of my password?"

It's kind of sad, too - when I started this thread the person I was referring to was my old...boyfriend I suppose is the best term, although it's not accurate - and we were toying with the idea of seeing each other again.

Alas, it has not come to pass.

But anyway, I'm glad the thread's been resurrected. I recently saw Night of Cabria (the film mukooh mentions above) again and thought it was a marvelous film, and I still adore Italian directors and films.

One film I didn't mention and should have was Cinema Paradiso. This is a film for film lovers, especially the final scene, and I would wholeheartedly recommend it to everyone!

[S.A.S.H.A.]

I've got a few Italian movies that I've yet to see. I think I'll watch them this week.

Sasha

[shrrshrr]

Awesome! I can't wait to read what you think. Are they new or classics, or both?

[LittleMilkJug]

Probably my favorite Italian film. done with non professional actors





Along with




including the best performance ever of the best Italian actress Anna Magnani (forget Loren..well no, she's good too but not a patch on Magnani)

[taovande]

I wish I was more involved in Italian film....the extent of my knowledge of any type of Italian film is Roberto Benigni, whom I adore.

Johnny Stecchino being my personal favorite.

I'll have to go explore some films so I can add something to this topic.

[ROCKSTAR]

I haven't watch many Italian films myself. The last I watched was "The best of youth" which is the 6 hour quasi film, quasi mini series. It is SO good. I cried several times and gasped in surprise once.

BTW, the Italian language makes for some incredibly effective dialogue heavy scenes.

[S.A.S.H.A.]

Finally got around to watching La Finestra Di Fronte (Facing Windows), Il Fiore Delle Mille E Una Notte (Arabian Nights), and Le Notti Di Cabiria (Nights of Cabiria).

Sasha

[XXAngieXX]

Hey guys!
I'm Italian and I'm happy to finally see a thread for movies from my country!
I haven't see all the movies you have talked about but I have to agree with Rockstar: "The best of youth" is one of the best Italian movies of the last ten years . It has the best actors you can find these days in Italy, and it shows how this country changed in the last forty years perfectly.
At first it was created to be a mini series, that's why it last almost six hours, but the network to which they proposed the project rejected it, so they make it a movie and it won a lot of awards in many festivals over Europe. In fact, I was surprised it wasn't considered to represent Italy for the Academy Award, since I know it was really appreciated in the USA too.