[ROCKSTAR]

I wanted to start a topic to discuss various aspects of 'controversial films'. By that I mean movies that are plagued by harsh criticism, too much praise, political, religious, etc, themes that get the attention of non movie goers, movies that spark discussion in the streets, etc, etc.

To mind comes the Passion of the Christ & Alexander, both very recent.

It's clear why Passion was so discussed, critized and praised; it tackles a subject that wraps the whole world in bitter arguments and a portrayal of such a figure as Jesus Christ will be controversial especially in such a big stage as the Box Office. One could argue it helped the film as far as selling tickets but a counter argument could state that it would've been just as succesful regardless.

Alexander did not have the same fate. The characterization of the historical figure was badly beaten by many sectors before the film even had the chance to play before mass audiences. The critical backlash also could've helped weigh down the film's attraction to those audiences that were bombed with negative comments making them decide in not buying a ticket.

I have much more to say but I won't for now. I want to say that being controversial can be a blessing, a curse, or both because when a subject is heated audiences can be severely turned off by the war of opinions, or they can be curious enough to give a try.

What's your favorite controversial movie? What was the conext in which the controversy developed? What side were you on?

[shrrshrr]

Ooh, good topic - I'd add Catwoman to that list as it generated a ton of bashing before it even came out, and even more once it did, even though most of the bashing was done by people who hadn't actually seen the film.

I find it fascinating that some films can generate so much controversy, while others, even very good films, just don't.

Another film would be Troy - I spent hours debating this film even though I didn't bother to see it (shame on me), but I couldn't have cared less about discussing something like Aurthur. Why the difference? Why do some films really drive us?

Great topic!

And yes, movies about Christ are necessarily going to generate controversy just by the nature of the topic.

[Alexander]

The Passion is an amazing film. I have it on DVD now. Of course, I have faith in Christ so I feel that way for a reason

Alexander the Great is my favorite person in history. I didn't like the media backlash b/c I wanted the film to do well. I will be getting in on DVD when it comes out.

Alex

[mukooh]

it would seem that most controversial films deal with sex and religion......

2 of my favorites in this category are:

'ultimo tango a parigi' (last tango in paris)

and

'the last temptation of christ'

but on closer examination whenever 2 parties have an opposing viewpoint on a film it becomes controversial.....and it extends to any area that film might explore.....



'birth of a nation' by dw griffith is considered a masterpiece by some and racist by others.......


even the walt disney company has been acuused of racism with it's film....

'song of the south'....a live action and animated film featuring the song zippy do da.............

so i guess as long as people are different they'll always be opposing viewpoints and controversy.....if only people wouldn't get so uptight though....

[shrrshrr]

Originally Posted by mukooh it would seem that most controversial films deal with sex and religion... ...if only people wouldn't get so uptight though....

SERIOUSLY. *nods*

See, even though I'm mixed-race and hate the message of Birth of a Nation, I gave it five stars for my NetFlix review because it's such an important film in the history of the motion pictures. There's no denying that. And as far as story telling goes, it's exceedingly well done.

Sure, it's racist - there's no denying that, either, as the message is clear and blatant, but I'm not going to decontextualize the film - it fit the general views of the white population in those days. *shrug* (I used to have this same problem in grad school when most of my female colleagues wanted to do papers on female artists and how they were ignored or abused, but my argument was that it was part of the times and you can't really decontextualize that without taking away from a major part of the story).

Anyway, yeah - any sort of extreme view, no matter what the message, can provoke controversy. And it wasn't just because of "Zippidee Do Da" - it was because they show "the darkie" happy and singing while being a slave in the south. Similar complaints were made by the black community for Gone with the Wind, and what's-her-name was ostracized for a time from the community. I think Song of the South was taken out of circulation because the times had changed and the black community had a much stronger voice.

I'm old enough to remember Song of the South - I rather liked it, but I knew it was probablematic on a personal level for me, even at a young age.

Also, I'm right there with ya - I like The Last Temptation of Christ very much. But then, I love Jesus Christ, Superstar, too, and it generated a ton of controversy in its day, as well. Religious figures are probably necessarily going to cause controversy when portrayed in film.

I think sex and violence in a film are far more complex issues to debate when it comes to controversy, you know?

[Dark Half Undine]

I wouldn't say that Catwoman created controversy over race, I think it just....sucked. And so did Alexander, but there was controversy over the homosexuality with I thought was ludicrous. It only shows how stupid people are and how they are more willing to be lied to than to ever open their minds and accpet others.

sigh...

[Captivating]

I loved the movie Passion Of The Christ. Then again, I believe in God/Jesus. I don't think people who disagree with this movie have valuable arguments. Reason being, most people who don't like it say it's b/c the movie tries to push religion on people and religious stuff should stay away. Well, using that srgument, I could say that all the other movies out there that don't deal w/what I believe are trying to push against my beliefs. Also, if you don't believe in God/Jesus, don't watch the movie. Simple as that.

- Lib

[S.A.S.H.A.]

Originally Posted by mukooh 'ultimo tango a parigi' (last tango in paris)

I saw that in 1994 and haven't been able to see butter the same ever since.

Originally Posted by shrrshrr I love Jesus Christ, Superstar

Me, too. I first caught JCS on VH1 in the 90s and just had to have it and the soundtrack.

I think I saw The Last Temptation of Christ as a kid, but all I remember is Willem Dafoe. I'll have to check it out some time this summer. I love movies with controversial religious plots, especially when there's some sort of sexual innuendo involved. I remember counting down to the theatrical release of Passion of the Christ from the moment I heard Mel and Jim were involved. I'm not religious at all, but I enjoyed the film. I don't get what all the fuss caused by critics was about. I don't have to be a believer to know that it was well done. To me, it was like watching the Spiderman movies. I don't believe in Spiderman, but they sure make awesome movies.

Sasha

[shrrshrr]

Originally Posted by Dark Half Undine I wouldn't say that Catwoman created controversy over race, I think it just....sucked.

Actually, no one here was saying Catwoman was controversial because of race. My point was that people who hadn't seen the movie said it was crap, and it caused a lot of controversy with people who had seen the film and didn't think it was all that bad.

The race thing was in regards to other films, just so we're clear.

Originally Posted by California_ here_ I _come I loved the movie Passion Of The Christ. Then again, I believe in God/Jesus. I don't think people who disagree with this movie have valuable arguments. Reason being, most people who don't like it say it's b/c the movie tries to push religion on people and religious stuff should stay away. Well, using that srgument, I could say that all the other movies out there that don't deal w/what I believe are trying to push against my beliefs. Also, if you don't believe in God/Jesus, don't watch the movie. Simple as that. - Lib

Wow - I think that's rather nonsensical, actually. I happen to believe in the existence of God and Jesus, but I don't care to see The Passion of the Christ because of many reasons, not least of which is that I don't think anyone should profit off of religion. It totally goes against the teachings of Christianity, not to mention other religions (I'm referring to the profiteering Mel Gibson did off of Christ's suffering, by the way, just so we're clear).

It's incredibly presumptuous to speak for people as if you know why they don't care for something. Sure, there probably are people out there who behaved as you described, but I'm not comfortable with your generalization at all. I hope you can understand and respect my differing views.

S.a.s.h.a. - I wholeheartedly agree. Also, I really hope you do get to see The Last Temptation of Christ again specifically because of how it fits into your interests.

[Alexander]

Originally Posted by California_ here_ I _come I loved the movie Passion Of The Christ. Then again, I believe in God/Jesus. I don't think people who disagree with this movie have valuable arguments. Reason being, most people who don't like it say it's b/c the movie tries to push religion on people and religious stuff should stay away. Well, using that srgument, I could say that all the other movies out there that don't deal w/what I believe are trying to push against my beliefs. Also, if you don't believe in God/Jesus, don't watch the movie. Simple as that. - Lib

Word

Alex

[pixiedude]

There are a few films that were controversial because they showed violent criminals as sympathetic POV characters, which caused some critics to fear that they would encourage people who already had antisocial tendencies to act them out. Stanley Kubrick removed A Clockwork Orange from distribution in 1977, after a rapist and a guy who murdered a homeless man both claimed that they identified with the main character, Alex, a sadistic gang leader. The film was re-released after Kubrick's death, in 1999, but there are still a few countries on IMDB's list of ratings by nation where it's banned. Here is a link to a page of articles from around the world (esp. UK) about controversies related to this movie. The most recent are from 2003, when a high school teacher was disciplined for showing it to a class.

I saw it when it first came out, and thought it was too arty for me. I'd read the book, by Anthony Burgess, which made more sense.

Some of the same reactions have followed Natural Born Killers, including criminals bragging that they were just like the stars of the movie.

No one remembers Cruising anymore, but it got a lot of protest, including theater picket lines, from gay organizations when it was released in 1980. It's based on a book by gay author Felice Picano about a gay serial killer who preys on gay men he meets in S&M clubs. Gay critics were concerned that straight audiences would take away the message that most random violence against gay men was perpetrated by other gay men, and that most gay men were reckless S&M participants.

Editted to add Do The Right Thing by Spike Lee. This film about a Black delivery man working for a racist white pizzeria owner climaxes in a riot. After a scene where the main character's boss comes on to the character's sister, the camera pauses on the words "Tawanna told the truth" spray-painted on a brick wall, referring to Tawanna Brawley. I recall several conservative critics saying that Spike Lee would be responsible if there were riots in NYC that summer (there were none).

[shrrshrr]

pixiedude - thanks for that. You make some excellent points and have brought up some of my favorite controversial films (all of which were well done, regardless of the controversy).

A Clockwork Orange is still banned in the UK because when they tried to show it a few years ago people started acting exactly the same. *rolls eyes*

I also remember that football movie way back when - the guys lie in the middle of the road to show their bravery? Real football players went out and did that and at least one was killed. (sorry, I'm tired and I'm not particular articulate without caffiene).

Finally - it's not just fiction that causes controversy: remember all the flack over Capturing the Friedmans? Because some people still claim they were guilty and felt the documentary maker was manipulating the audience to believe otherise?

And let's not forget the controversy over all of Michael Moore's films!

[pixiedude]

Originally Posted by shrrshrr I also remember that football movie way back when - the guys lie in the middle of the road to show their bravery? Real football players went out and did that and at least one was killed.

The Program (1993), starring James Caan and Halle Berry. From the review on Amazon:

This is the movie blamed for encouraging college kids (and others) to lie down on the painted divider between lanes of highway traffic. (Incredibly, the studio pulled the film in its opening weeks and deleted the allegedly offending scene.)

[Anabela]

Originally Posted by California_ here_ I _come I loved the movie Passion Of The Christ. Then again, I believe in God/Jesus. I don't think people who disagree with this movie have valuable arguments. Reason being, most people who don't like it say it's b/c the movie tries to push religion on people and religious stuff should stay away. Well, using that srgument, I could say that all the other movies out there that don't deal w/what I believe are trying to push against my beliefs. Also, if you don't believe in God/Jesus, don't watch the movie. Simple as that.

Here's my opinion and I hope you respect it: I didn't like "The Passion of the Christ" for a lot of reasons. Pushing religion on me isn't one of those reasons because I usually like movies about religion and faith.
Only, I don't think The Passion had anything to do with religion or faith. It had more to do with the complete demonization of every character that wasn't a follower of Christ. Everybody who didn't follow Jesus was mean, cruel, sadist, rude. When the movie first came out, it was accused of being anti-semitic. But the romans don't look any better in the movie.
And I'm not sure what to call that part when little children are transformed into demons. Disgusting? That's what I thought it was. In that movie, everybody who didn't follow Jesus wasn't even human. What's the message behind that? If you're not a christian then you're a blood-thirsty monster? I think that goes against Jesus' message.
Second, for a movie that claims to tell the story as it really happened, it fails miserably when it showed the part about Veronica's veil. That part isn't even in the Bible.

Oh, and I'm not a christian but "The Last Temptation of Christ" is a great movie. But then Martin Scorsese is a great director.

[Captivating]

shrrshrr: I wasn't speaking for everyone. As you can see in my previous post, I said "most" people give that as a reason. Ok, moving on. You didn't want to see this movie b/c you don't think anyone should profit off religion? Hmmm, ok. I think this movie was wonderful, and I'm glad Mel made it. I know a few people who were even led to the lord because of it. So, you missed out not seeing it.