a new hope

Yeah we do know quite a bit, it's a matter of putting the puzzle pieces together.

sum1

Some things we can see already. Unfortunately.

a new hope

Like what?

sum1

Like Rey is a dud.

a new hope

Maybe you should start an Anti-Rey thread considering how much you like to mention how much you dislike her.

sum1

If you'll post there.

She's a fraud. I don't like frauds. Nor do I usually like adult characters who come off like kids (see Anakin, Prequel Version).

a new hope

Well I disagree I think she's very inspiring and a great lead to the new trilogy.

sum1

Well, we'll argue it out some other time. It's not about simply bashing Rey, it's about exploring what went wrong with her. Because I have a strong intuitive understanding of how she doesn't work, but I have to tease out my thoughts on the matter to put it into words. And I want people to think about the problem of Rey, because I think it's an important aspect of how this new Star Wars is flawed.

TheCheshireKitten

I don't think anything went wrong with Rey - I enjoyed her character and I look forward to them exploring more of her character in the next two movies.

She was my second favorite character in TFA.

sum1

Here's how I see it:

Rey is a character who is supposed to have been dumped on a rough desert planet at a very young age and grew up learning to fend for herself in harsh surroundings. Yet she speaks with a posh British accent (Daisy's mother is from a minor British noble family, landed gentry specifically) and she's safe, innocent, and for all her spunkiness, kind of tame. It doesn't add up. It's not convincing and it stinks of Disney trying to create a perfect Disney princess rather than a realistic character. I like my characters to be three-dimensional people, rather than perfect, two-dimensional stereotypes. I want real strong female characters, not carbon-copy, by-the-numbers "spunky heroine" clones.

Additionally, Rey comes off much younger than she should. She comes off kind of like a big kid. Contrast her with Leia in Star Wars/ANH. Carrie was 19 when she played that role, yet she came across fully adult. Rey does not. Portraying women as childlike is an example of infantilization of women, a major way of doing women down, keeping them down, undermining them, disrespecting them. To have Star Wars' female empowerment heroine infantilized like that is offensive and subverts the positive benefit of having such a character.

If only the new Star Wars could have a character like Jaylah, Sofia Boutella's fiery heroine from Star Trek: Beyond. And if only the new Star Wars could have used Carrie Fisher properly and respectfully in The Force Awakens while she yet lived, rather than reducing her character to a subdued shadow of her former self and giving her barely any screen time. People like Carrie Fisher come along only rarely. They should be given the opportunity to use their talents fully before they leave us. The way Leia was handled in TFA reeked of ageism and sexism. It seems they could have a young heroine, but apparently it was too much to ask for a significant role for an older woman.

Of course, on this board all views are welcome. People can like Rey as much as they like here. I only offer my views for consideration.

a new hope

*ignores part about Star Trek* When you compare Leia with Rey, it's hard to defend Rey, but I understand your point of view, I just don't agree with it.

I love Kylo, Rey, Finn, and Poe, I think they're great additions to the fandom and have a lot of room to be explored.

sum1

I think Finn and Poe are well-acted by good actors, but I don't care that much about the chracters.

Jerry D

I've never had a problem with any critical comments you make sum because you always put a lot of thought into them, and you're respectful of the opinion of others. I need to watch The Force Awakens again to offer a more informed opinion of it. My wife bought the DVD, so I'll have to watch it some weekend. I do think that both The Force Awakens and Rogue One were better than any of the Prequel Trilogy movies, which I thought were garbage. Nothing will compare with the Original Trilogy Movies, but what's done is done. Disney will milk this franchise for all they can get out of it, and each movie will make lots of money. It's all a business, and offering something memorable is a secondary consideration to making money.

TheCheshireKitten

I don't see Rey and Leia as comparable in any way - the only thing they have in common is being female brunettes.

Leia and Rey are who they are at 19 because of their different circumstances. Rey has learned survival skills but is basically in other ways somewhat in arrested development - when we meet her, she's still holding on to that five year old girl's hope that her family will come back. There's nothing else for her but surviving and that hope. There's no evidence she had any guidance, or peers, or so many other things that enable to us to fully grow. So that "childlike" aspect of Rey, I don't see as infantilizing her in any way to dumb her down - I see it as tying into her character arc and her background. That 5 year old child's hope has to be let go of in the movie, as part of her growth, and it is. Rey is likely to grow as a character in some ways Leia did not (because Leia was already quite fully developed in ANH more than Rey is in TFA, IMO).

Leia, on the other hand, grew up with parents, most likely friends, teachers, mentors.... She probably experienced normal childhood and teenage things, and of course learned about the galaxy at large being royalty.

It's not either/or with Leia and Rey for me - I enjoy both of their (very different) characters. No need to defend Rey against Leia at all.

I agree that Carrie Fisher deserved more screen time in TFA and I absolutely hate the ageism factor when it comes to female actresses. I wanted Leia to play a big part in these movies, even more than Luke or Han, to be honest, but I don't see Carrie's screen time - the lack of it - as having anything to do with Rey or it somehow being the "fault" of Rey or Daisy.

a new hope

^I agree with your entire post