Star Wars - Star Wars FAQ#3: "Seek and you shall find" - Page 3

**BehrItAll** · 11-09-2006, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strider (View Post)

Here's the theory. Had Vader not been physically damaged, he would have unseated Sidious way before the events in ANH took place, simply b/c he would have been more powerful in the force and the dark side.

I'm reading a fan fic like that right now

**Cryostar** · 11-11-2006, 10:29 AM

Indeed, that is if Anakin could have ever gotten over his Naivite before the emperor replaced him, like he did with Dooku.

***Alexander*** · 11-11-2006, 06:30 PM

I don't think that Sidious would have had Vader killed, I mean the whole deal is that you sort of accept that an apprentice who is worthy will one day defeat his master and take over. That's why you have to pass on all your knowledge of the dark side eventually to your apprentice, so it's not lost. It's a catch 22 to be the main Sith Lord. You can only hold on to that for so long, before you must die in order for a stronger one to emerge and so on.

***Jerry D*** · 11-11-2006, 08:53 PM

I definitely feel that Sidious would have had Vader killed, and in fact, he was cheering Luke on to kill his father in their battle in Return of the Jedi: "Fulfill your destiny and take your father's place by my side." Luke would have killed Vader if he turned to the Dark Side, but then he realized what he was becoming, and refused to do what the Emperor wanted, and he nearly died because of it, until Vader saved him and sacrificed himself by hurling Sidious down the reactor shaft. Therefore, I feel that Sidious was definitely planning to kill Vader once he found a more powerful apprentice, just like he had Anakin kill Count Dooku when he saw that Anakin was more powerful than Dooku.

**BehrItAll** · 11-11-2006, 09:07 PM

Even if Vader was never in a suit Sid prob would have wanted to replace him with Luke since Luke was younger, and esp if he felt Luke became more powerful than Vader.

But I don't know if Luke would have been more powerful than his father if Vader was never suited....
I don't think he would have been.

***Alexander*** · 11-12-2006, 04:58 AM

You are losing the whole point. If Anakin, Darth Vader I mean, was not injured and left for dead, had he full use of his body, his force abilities and powers would have soon surpassed Sidious and Vader would have most likely killed him.

Of course once Sidious knew that Vader would not "become a powerful sith" like he had hoped, he searched far and wide for a replacement. It only took him 20 plus years to discover Luke, b/c of the destruction of the Jedi Order, few beings were discovered as force sensitive and trained to serve Sidious at all. In a way, he made it harder to find a suitable replacement for the half mechanical Vader, by having almost all the Jedi killed.

If you look at the history of the Sith Order, most of their powerful Sith Lords were once Jedi, or were being trained to be Jedi. So without a Jedi Order...Sidious had "crippled' the supply line for future, potential Sith Apprentices.

Alex

***Alexander*** · 11-12-2006, 04:59 AM

You are losing the whole point. If Anakin, Darth Vader I mean, was not injured and left for dead, had he full use of his body, his force abilities and powers would have soon surpassed Sidious and Vader would have most likely killed him.

Of course once Sidious knew that Vader would not "become a powerful sith" like he had hoped, he searched far and wide for a replacement. It only took him 20 plus years to discover Luke, b/c of the destruction of the Jedi Order, few beings were discovered as force sensitive and trained to serve Sidious at all. In a way, he made it harder to find a suitable replacement for the half mechanical Vader, by having almost all the Jedi killed.

If you look at the history of the Sith Order, most of their powerful Sith Lords were once Jedi, or were being trained to be Jedi. So without a Jedi Order...Sidious had "crippled' the supply line for future, potential Sith Apprentices.

Alex

**Cryostar** · 11-12-2006, 06:46 AM

I think in the case of most sith lords, who's time was finite, this was why the apprentice was recruited, by Sidious had Plagieus' knowledge, he could extend life, he had do so for himself already, so having a new apprentice was no big deal to him. If Vader got out of control, I have no doubts that Palpatine would have had him killed, there were dozens of other force adept individuals around him he could choose from to replace Vader, any number of his Hands or Inquisitors come to mind.

But he needed the perfect plan, and what better plan than to replace father with son.....especially as the son's power grew.

***Alexander*** · 11-12-2006, 12:53 PM

Alright, other than Luke, what other force "sensitive" beings are we talking about that Sidious knew at the time of "ESB and RotJ"?

Mara Jade? Maybe one of the Imperial Guards, like the guy from "Crimson Empire"? The C'baoth clone? I mean you have to really search and gasp at straws.

**BehrItAll** · 11-12-2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Sidious had Plagieus' knowledge, he could extend life, he had do so for himself already, so having a new apprentice was no big deal to him.

If he could expand his life and live forever then why have one at all to pass his teaching too?

***Alexander*** · 11-12-2006, 03:11 PM

I don't think that Sidious knew how to manipulate the midichloriens to create life the way Plageuis did. I mean he never "showed" that power/ability? Maybe it's only for one self that it works, as in he extended his own natural life through the manipulation in the force?

Of course, there are those who think that Plageuis manipulated the force to create life, aka Anakin, as the "perfect being" Sith Prophecy, to become the most powerful of all Sith Lords.

***Alexander*** · 11-12-2006, 03:15 PM

Something else, when Sidious told Anakin that "Plageuis taught his apprentice everything he knew"...but later in the story says "To cheat death is a power only one has been able to achieve"? Does that mean that Sidious a) lied to get Anakin's attention b) actually knows how to manipulate the force to avoid death or extend life but is not strong enough in the force to actually do it himself? c) Lied about the whole thing from the start, and nobody, not even Plageuis could manipulate the force, even with the extensive knowledge in the darkside that he possessed.

I'm guessing all of these shall be answered in the Darth Plageius novel.

Alex

**BehrItAll** · 11-12-2006, 03:28 PM

Until I read otherwise I think that Sidious used that legend to get Anakin's attention but actually wasn't able to acheive it himself.

***Alexander*** · 11-12-2006, 03:32 PM

I think, in my own interpretation of what we know at the moment, that Sidious lied to Anakin to further "entrap" him to further his cause for his fall.

**BehrItAll** · 11-12-2006, 03:51 PM

I hope that novel sheds come light on this question
while endless speculation and discussion is fun I'd like some answers.

I will always beleive that it was the Force that created Anakin, and not some midi-chlorian trick.