Star Wars - Star Wars Comics #7 - Have faith in Dark Horse, for the Horse runs well

**Cryostar** · 11-24-2008, 06:30 AM

Continuing on. I believe that Legacy comes out this week.

Alex sounds like a plan

**BehrItAll** · 11-24-2008, 06:28 PM

Yay! New thread.

Love the catchy title, Jerry

***Alexander*** · 11-24-2008, 10:10 PM

Legacy, as in VECTOR part 11 of 12? That arc is coming to an end quick, I guess they wanted to end it before the year is over?

sum1 · 11-26-2008, 04:21 PM

Don't you guys get tired of discussing and being into modern Star Wars stuff? I mean, there's 30 years of history and you guys only discuss stuff that's recent.

**BehrItAll** · 11-26-2008, 05:20 PM

Don't you get tired of complaining all the time?

We have appreciation threads for the OT which you are welcome to discuss the "happy times."

***Alexander*** · 11-26-2008, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post)

Don't you guys get tired of discussing and being into modern Star Wars stuff? I mean, there's 30 years of history and you guys only discuss stuff that's recent.

I've already discussed any previous SW films to death, so I'm discussing what is new right now b/c I'm currently reading both Legacy and KOTOR and have been since the beginning of both series

I'll be happy to discuss the OT movies, the prequels, all the novels and DH comics b/c that is what I've read/seen. I have not read or seen the original SW marvel comics so I can't comment on those.

**Cryostar** · 11-27-2008, 08:27 AM

Why would we not want to discuss things that we're excited about. They're compelling stories.

Alex, Legacy rocks, how this is shaping up well. There are scenes (Talon's back, btw) between cade and talon. I think she's touched a nerve.

sum1 · 11-27-2008, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BehrItAll (View Post)

Don't you get tired of complaining all the time?

When there's something seriously wrong there's a duty to "complain".

Quote:

Originally Posted by BehrItAll (View Post)

We have appreciation threads for the OT which you are welcome to discuss the "happy times."

Except nobody here seems interested in discussing much that's not modern.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strider (View Post)

I've already discussed any previous SW films to death, so I'm discussing what is new right now b/c I'm currently reading both Legacy and KOTOR and have been since the beginning of both series

I'll be happy to discuss the OT movies, the prequels, all the novels and DH comics b/c that is what I've read/seen. I have not read or seen the original SW marvel comics so I can't comment on those.

The Marvel comics are the comics that came out when the films (the OT -the PT doesn't count) were coming out and in the period shortly after. As such they're a product of the Star Wars era. That makes them fundamentally more Star Wars than stuff made long after the OT era. The Marvel comics are the classic Star Wars comics. More recent comics come from a time when the connection has broken and people have lost the feel for what made Star Wars Star Wars. I don't understand interest in the modern comics, because to me they're so far from the heart of Star Wars. At least the early Dark Horse comics come from an era when the original films had not yet been mutilated and supplanted by the Specially Screwed Up Editions.

Example of an early Dark Horse comic: Dork Empire, the first Star Wars comic by the company. It was originally to have beeen made by Marvel in the late 80s but the Star Wars license went to Dark Horse (boo, hiss) and Dark Horse put it out instead. We don't know what a Marvel version would have been like. Working for a different comics company that had a different mentality, the creative team may have put out a very different work than what they might have put out for Marvel. It certainly doesn't seem very Marvelish.

It came out in 1991, which was when the modern EU started, with Zahn's Heir to the Empire bestseller. Dork Empire was the comics branch of that EU offensive. The story works in some ways, but it isn't great. Cloning the emperor was daft in the extreme. Once you start resurrecting characters the fiction is weakened. You believe in it less. Some franchises can get away with that sort of thing more than others. Not Star Wars. Daft. Star Wars is not Dune. Clones as resurrection -what next, giant worm emperors? The film characters, other than threepio, don't feel all that much like themselves. Threepio is easy to do. Han's friends from the Hutt planet are probably the best character portrayal in it. The emperor is pathetically done, just a lame villain, not true to the film version at all.

The art has some good bits (the initial picture of Salla is good, for example), but overall it is not terribly impressive. That's the pencilling and inking I'm talking about. The coloring is another story. If they gave out razzies for worst coloring of the year Dork Empire would be first in line. In a pretentious style decision they have stuff colored all the same color or nearly the same color -panels of all pink, panels in which everthing is green, etc. Painful. Makes things look less real, makes things less alive, makes it dreary and depressing. And it's downright lazy too.

And what's Luke dressed like Darth Vader for? They have him dressed like that before he decides to sample the dark side. If you want Luke to be Luke have him dress like Luke, don't have him dress like "Look I'm echoing my father's dark side gear because I think it's cool he went over to the dark side." He also comes off rather dark sideish before he goes over to the dark side, in the art otherwise and in the writing, which is just dumb lazy writing.

And their emperor is such a pain in the butt. Seriously.

Not a good start to Dark Horse's Star Wars. But it was a big success. There's no accounting for taste. Zahn's books were better than this.

Of course, this stuff is taken more seriously as "canon" than the Marvel comics, even though it's less Star Wars. The Marvel comics never pushed themselves forward as This is the True Star Wars Story. But the Zahn books were pushed as These are the sequels Lucas isn't making. And the Dark Horse comics were part of an attempt to take the EU seriously. Which I don't understand.

Dork Empire was followed by Dork Empire II and Empire's End.

**BehrItAll** · 11-27-2008, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Except nobody here seems interested in discussing much that's not modern.

I am up for OT discussions.

sum1 · 11-28-2008, 03:18 AM

Yeah but this thread is for comics, so it has to be the OT's comics. The real ones. The Marvel comics. How about Dariel in Water Bandits? I thought she was a cool character, I wish she'd appared again the comic.

**Cryostar** · 11-28-2008, 06:06 AM

Sum, how much do you know about how Marvel lost the license for star wars? How much do you know about the reboot for the comic franchise by Dark Horse? Have you ever read Dark Empire? Do you even know what it's about?

I understand your want to be a purist, and like most purists, you feel star wars died, and was brought back to life as something more or less wrong. We accept you for that, but you also should accept us for our opinions that modern day star wars story-telling is still entertaining, and thus, worthy (by our own admission) of discussion in these forums. While we would love to discuss the older (marvel) comics, to be honest, you will find few that have read them, and even fewer that remember them. To be honest, I don't even remember the story that you just referenced.

So, instead of being such a stalwart over the matter, why don't you try and join the discussion and see where it takes you?

**BehrItAll** · 11-28-2008, 09:45 AM

Also, I would like to add that there are threads here for OT characters (such as Leia, Han, Luke, Boba, Han/Leia, Luke/Leia, ships, and droid appreciation threads. Take a look at the board guide.)

Quote:

how much do you know about how Marvel lost the license for star wars?

Oh I don't know the story. How did it happen?

sum1 · 11-28-2008, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryostar (View Post)

Sum, how much do you know about how Marvel lost the license for star wars? How much do you know about the reboot for the comic franchise by Dark Horse?

Not a lot, but I don't think that's relevant. But clearly you do, so please tell us about it.

I read the Marvel comics. The Marvel comics stopped. I moved on. Then one day I came across the Dark Horse comics. I wasn't impressed by what I read. Beyond that I've read some tibits about the topic on the net and in magazines. That's the sum of my knowledge on those topics. Recently I decided to take another look at the Dark Horse comics. Not the new ones, the old ones I looked at back in the 90s. But I don't have those now. So I ordered the new edition of Dork Empire, read it and reviewed it. End of story.

Now I'm ready for you to tell me what you know that you consider relevant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryostar (View Post)

Have you ever read Dark Empire? Do you even know what it's about?

That's a really dumb question, seeing as I just gave you a detailed review of the comic. If you can't recognize that I've read the comic from my referencing various specfic things in it, then perhaps you haven't read it yourself. All in all I find your implication rather insulting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryostar (View Post)

I understand your want to be a purist, and like most purists, you feel star wars died, and was brought back to life as something more or less wrong. We accept you for that, but you also should accept us for our opinions that modern day star wars story-telling is still entertaining, and thus, worthy (by our own admission) of discussion in these forums. While we would love to discuss the older (marvel) comics, to be honest, you will find few that have read them, and even fewer that remember them. To be honest, I don't even remember the story that you just referenced.

So, instead of being such a stalwart over the matter, why don't you try and join the discussion and see where it takes you?

Discuss things I'm not interested in and know little about? Why would I do that? Obviously it's not within my capabilties to do that properly.

I've got a better idea: Stop taking offense at my taking a different view of Star Wars. You say "We accept you for it" but clearly you don't, or else you wouldn't be getting offensive by suggesting I'm lying about reading something I've just reviewed. Clearly you feel a need to be aggressive, because that's an act of aggression. My taking a different stance on Star Wars is clearly so unacceptable to you that you feel the need to be aggressive about it. I don't appreciate being called a liar. Look, I'm not interested in arguing, but I do feel offended by your implication and I do feel you're not being as tolerant of my different viewpoint as you think you are. Obviously I'm pissed off but I want to try to get along. So please can we? Without anybody implying anybody's lying? (And without any fox and hen analogies either.)

And why is it so hard to understand that when I come to a Star Wars board it's natural to feel distressed when people aren't really discussing Star Wars?

You have indicated you know something relevant about why Marvel lost the comcs license and "about the reboot for the comic franchise by Dark Horse". Well then, there's a topic for discussion. Please tell us what you know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BehrItAll (View Post)

Oh I don't know the story. How did it happen?

Ditto. Please tell.

(But be warned, in any story involving Lucasfilm and Marvel I'm liable to see Lucasfilm as the bad guy and Marvel as the good guy. Feel free to try to change my attitude, though.)

::sits down and waits to hear Cryostar tell the story::

**Cryostar** · 11-28-2008, 09:30 PM

Sum, if you'd like to continue this conversation, please feel free to PM me. There are several aspects of your argument that are beyond faulty. If you wish to make this personal, PM me, and we'll have a discussion.

I'll await your PM.

As to why Marvel got rid of the license, it willingly gave it up after 1986, believing that star wars was a fad and wouldn't last. When it came time to publish new stories, Marvel felt that there was no money, and that star wars would never make money again, the world had moved on. In the mean time, Dark Horse stepped in with the Tales series, focusing on the ancient jedi, which quickly became one of the best selling series of all time.

As it stands, it was one of the worst financial decisions of the 90's that Marvel made, and they nearly went under because of it.

***Alexander*** · 11-28-2008, 10:26 PM

Well I have no idea about licensing and the past, I moved to the US in the fall of 92 and didn't read SW comics until 5 years ago

so I can't comment on any of that.

Jerry, thanks for the legacy 30 link.