[sum1]

Originally Posted by cap'n cook (View Post) I didn't even know what SW was in 1999 Well that's not true, I knew what it was, but on a very superficial level and I had no idea which actors were in it. So no, I wasn't familiar with any inside jokes like that.

It's been used since 1999, like it was used to refer to Hayden's Anakin in the 2nd Clerks film.

That kid gets on my nerves.

The kid is a pain. Just look at the photos. The way he's playing it there, he looks like a sulky, dumb, totally-unspecial little brat. Seriously not Vader potential. But Hayden's Anakin is worse. Look at his eyes and the set of his mouth. He's projecting such a look of childish sulkiness in multiple pictures there. When he's supposed to be evil he looks like an overgrown kid sulking because somebody denied him a treat. His supposed I've-gone-dark glares are all childish sulk if you look close (I don't have to look close to see it, but some might need to). All his supposedly angry/intense looks are just sulky looks when you give them a good look. When he tries to look serious, he looks dumb, brainless. When he's forcing Kenobi down with the lightsaber in one of the bottom pictures, the expression on his face is one petty, childish spite rather than the dangerous fury of a true Sith. And when he he's going "What have I done?" (in one of the second-from-the-bottom pictures, after he's helped Windu's death) he looks like he's being an annoying whiney crybaby -there's a way to do that stuff without looking that way. In the AOTC pictures in particular, he looks incredibly awkward. And the second-last picture, of him going "I hate you!" at Kenobi, is an example of some of the worst acting ever. Instead of the fury and hate of a formidable Sith lord, it's the childish tantrum of an immature little kid.

Reposting the pics, because we need them on the same page as the commentary:

Originally Posted by cap'n cook (View Post) you will be gold and gold again

[a new hope]

I wish I could have that level of critical analysis when it comes to Hayden's facial expressions, it's hard for me as a very shallow person who finds him very attractive But I do agree that the way he plays Anakin comes across as very childish/petulant, like a kid who's not getting his way, and that it's conflicting with the Vader we saw in the OT

[Jerry D]

Excellent interpretations of Jake Lloyd’s and Hayden Christensen’s facial expressions sum. They were both woefully miscast in the part of Anakin. You can somewhat excuse Jake Lloyd because he was a kid, but Hayden Christensen was the worst possible choice for Anakin. Anakin Skywalker should have been imbued with a dignity and gravitas that would have allowed us to see the future Darth Vader in him, but instead, he came off as a whiny and petulant teenager who allowed himself to be duped into believing he could save Padmé by turning to the Dark Side of The Force and becoming a Sith, but once Anakin turned “evil” Hayden Christensen ‘s acting became even worse, and his utterance of the line “you underestimate my power” remains of one of the worst examples of “acting” that I’ve ever seen.

George Lucas really missed the mark when he cast the role of Anakin, but he missed the make with everything else in the Prequel Trilogy, so it shouldn’t surprise me, but it does disappoint me.

[sum1]

Originally Posted by cap'n cook (View Post) I wish I could have that level of critical analysis when it comes to Hayden's facial expressions, it's hard for me as a very shallow person who finds him very attractive But I do agree that the way he plays Anakin comes across as very childish/petulant, like a kid who's not getting his way, and that it's conflicting with the Vader we saw in the OT

You're not very shallow. Except with regard to some things.

Hayden's Anakin comes across like a guy who could never grow up. Vader is very much an adult. It's totally incompatible.

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) Excellent interpretations of Jake Lloyd’s and Hayden Christensen’s facial expressions sum. They were both woefully miscast in the part of Anakin. You can somewhat excuse Jake Lloyd because he was a kid, but Hayden Christensen was the worst possible choice for Anakin. Anakin Skywalker should have been imbued with a dignity and gravitas that would have allowed us to see the future Darth Vader in him, but instead, he came off as a whiny and petulant teenager who allowed himself to be duped into believing he could save Padmé by turning to the Dark Side of The Force and becoming a Sith, but once Anakin turned “evil” Hayden Christensen ‘s acting became even worse, and his utterance of the line “you underestimate my power” remains of one of the worst examples of “acting” that I’ve ever seen. George Lucas really missed the mark when he cast the role of Anakin, but he missed the make with everything else in the Prequel Trilogy, so it shouldn’t surprise me, but it does disappoint me.

The Prequel Trilogy is such an incredible case of doing EVERYTHING wrong that I'm inclined to think that Lucas was trying to deliberately go against everything he did in the OT and go against every principle of what would work in a film, effectively trying to screw up. There's a quote from one of Lucas's right hand men (I forget the guy's name) indicating that Lucas wanted to make the first prequel a film that he knew would turn off all viewers over 18 and everybody who liked the original trilogy. And there's a quote from Lucas saying he wrote the romance in AOTC in a way that he knew men or anybody with any cynicism (insult to women here) wouldn't like. There are numerous examples of Lucas making aspects of the prequels lame to suit various whims of his. For example, he made Palpatine's Sith-face makeup in the later part of ROTS so bad because he was trying to echo old monster movies. Old monster movies being notable for bad makeup. That makeup was dreadful. Combine it with Ian's hamming and you've got a dreadful mockery of Palpatine.

I think Lucas picked Hayden and Jake because they were the actors most likely to turn in lame, annoying performances and Lucas was trying to deconstruct Vader/Anakin and reduce him to a contemptible character. He picked actors who couldn't turn in good performances or play a convincing Anakin and he effectively directed them to do their worst work. Better actors would have salvaged more from the characters anyway, even with Lucas's direction and destructive intent, but Jake and Hayden didn't have the talent to bring anything extra to the characters. Jake and Hayden succeeded in that they gave Lucas the useless character he wanted, but they failed by not giving us anything to care about, identify with or connect with in the character, crucial functions of a lead actor. And both Lucas and the actors are to blame for how far Prequel Anakin is from being compatible with OT Anakin/Vader.

I've seen Hayden in a number of other films. He's better in them than in Star Wars, but never very good, and his characters tend to come across immature, childish, weak and shallow, like he played Anakin. I doubt he can convincingly act any character who's not like that. He maxed it out in the prequels. His Anakin is a testimony to the human capacity for lameness.

[Jerry D]

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post) You're not very shallow. Except with regard to some things. Hayden's Anakin comes across like a guy who could never grow up. Vader is very much an adult. It's totally incompatible. The Prequel Trilogy is such an incredible case of doing EVERYTHING wrong that I'm inclined to think that Lucas was trying to deliberately go against everything he did in the OT and go against every principle of what would work in a film, effectively trying to screw up. There's a quote from one of Lucas's right hand men (I forget the guy's name) indicating that Lucas wanted to make the first prequel a film that he knew would turn off all viewers over 18 and everybody who liked the original trilogy. And there's a quote from Lucas saying he wrote the romance in AOTC in a way that he knew men or anybody with any cynicism (insult to women here) wouldn't like. There are numerous examples of Lucas making aspects of the prequels lame to suit various whims of his. For example, he made Palpatine's Sith-face makeup in the later part of ROTS so bad because he was trying to echo old monster movies. Old monster movies being notable for bad makeup. That makeup was dreadful. Combine it with Ian's hamming and you've got a dreadful mockery of Palpatine. I think Lucas picked Hayden and Jake because they were the actors most likely to turn in lame, annoying performances and Lucas was trying to deconstruct Vader/Anakin and reduce him to a contemptible character. He picked actors who couldn't turn in good performances or play a convincing Anakin and he effectively directed them to do their worst work. Better actors would have salvaged more from the characters anyway, even with Lucas's direction and destructive intent, but Jake and Hayden didn't have the talent to bring anything extra to the characters. Jake and Hayden succeeded in that they gave Lucas the useless character he wanted, but they failed by not giving us anything to care about, identify with or connect with in the character, crucial functions of a lead actor. And both Lucas and the actors are to blame for how far Prequel Anakin is from being compatible with OT Anakin/Vader. I've seen Hayden in a number of other films. He's better in them than in Star Wars, but never very good, and his characters tend to come across immature, childish, weak and shallow, like he played Anakin. I doubt he can convincingly act any character who's not like that. He maxed it out in the prequels. His Anakin is a testimony to the human capacity for lameness.

Excellent post, sum. For me then, the question is: Why would Lucas do that? Why would he destroy his own legacy and create a trilogy so clearly inferior to his original trilogy, and why would he squander the characters he had brought to life so powerfully? It just doesn't make sense.

[a new hope]

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post) You're not very shallow. Except with regard to some things.

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post) I think Lucas picked Hayden and Jake because they were the actors most likely to turn in lame, annoying performances and Lucas was trying to deconstruct Vader/Anakin and reduce him to a contemptible character. He picked actors who couldn't turn in good performances or play a convincing Anakin and he effectively directed them to do their worst work.

That's true, 'cause I remember watching a video of the auditions for kid Anakin, and it was down to this kid who was pretty good and Jake, and George Lucas said he purposely chose Jake because his audition wasn't as good Like he couldn't deliver his lines all at once and things like that. So he hired him

[sum1]

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) Excellent post, sum. For me then, the question is: Why would Lucas do that? Why would he destroy his own legacy and create a trilogy so clearly inferior to his original trilogy, and why would he squander the characters he had brought to life so powerfully? It just doesn't make sense.

Well, there's a theory that he went nuts, but leaving that aside, maybe it has something to do with the fact that the Original Trilogy was something he made with his wife whom he so bitterly split from after ROTJ. Maybe he looked back negatively on that story because he looked back negatively on her. Additionally, he may have taken to such a reductive view of Star Wars for reasons of affectation, thinking such a take on Star Wars was clever. Successful creator types often get a bloated ego and start indulging weird notions and whims and thus ruining what they originally created. The mess Joss Whedon made of Buffy in his "Season 8" comics was mind-boggling and has made him a lot of enemies among Buffy fans. Frank Herbert, who wrote the classic science fiction novel Dune, followed it up with endless sequels, each one nuttier than the last, totally mangling his story. Lucas's seeming intent to mangle Star Wars also shows in the senseless and highly destructive changes he made to the Original Trilogy in 1997 (Special Edition), 2004 (original DVD edition) and recently for the Blu-ray. That certainly shows a hostility towards the Original Trilogy.

Originally Posted by cap'n cook (View Post)

That's true, 'cause I remember watching a video of the auditions for kid Anakin, and it was down to this kid who was pretty good and Jake, and George Lucas said he purposely chose Jake because his audition wasn't as good Like he couldn't deliver his lines all at once and things like that. So he hired him

Which brings us back to the "he went nuts" theory.

Nice new avie Tar. Scary, but nice.

[Jerry D]

I think that the theory that Lucas was bitterly affected by his divorce and it made him disrespect the work that he had done with his wife makes a lot of sense, and it seems like the most logical explanation for why the Prequel Trilogy was so different and inferior to the Original Trilogy. I also feel that he did get a huge ego after the success of the Original Trilogy, and that gave him the notion that he could do whatever he wanted with not only the Prequel Trilogy but with rereleases of the Original Trilogy. By allowing his ego to rule, however, he tarnished his own legacy and the legacy of the Star Wars franchise itself, but he doesn't seem to care.

I particularly didn't like the misogynist bent of the Prequel Trilogy and how Padmé literally willed herself to die and leave her children orphans because her husband had turned to the Dark Side. I find that whole concept appalling, and I feel that it's pretty obvious that his divorce influenced that happening on the screen.

[a new hope]

The "he's nuts" theory definitely makes sense when you analyse everything It's kinda sad that a divorce can turn someone's views upside down like that.

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post) Nice new avie Tar. Scary, but nice.

Thanks

[sum1]

Notably, Lucas worked more with other people in creating the OT. The prequels were both written and directed by him and he dominated everything. He had decided that Star Wars = George Lucas and that arrogant assumption led him into an unholy mess.

[Jerry D]

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post) Notably, Lucas worked more with other people in creating the OT. The prequels were both written and directed by him and he dominated everything. He had decided that Star Wars = George Lucas and that arrogant assumption led him into an unholy mess.

I completely agree with this. His egotistic and arrogant ways caused him to tarnish his own legacy and also tarnish the franchise that he created.

[sum1]

And alienate a lot of fans bigtime.

[a new hope]

Well let's be thankful he's not gonna have that much of an influence anymore

[sum1]

I hope not. He's still an advisor and I think the new films are based on ideas of his.

[a new hope]

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

New thread time