[sum1]

Sebastian Shaw was only in ROTJ.

[BehrItAll]

Who's head do we see in ESB?

[stilldreaming]

It wasn't Shaw, he wasn't cast until ROTJ... no idea who it was though. I doubt they hired someone specifically to sit in the Vader costume and not move, speak, or do anything else, so it was PROBABLY either Prowse or one of his stunt doubles? I guess? I wonder if anyone's ever thought to ask that at a convention or something, it would be interesting to know the answer.

[BehrItAll]

I didn't think of it at the time but I should have asked at NYCC when I went to the panel about the Making of EBS book.

Or maybe it is mentioned in the book and I just have to get around to reading it.

[FreedomsBullets]

Whoever's head it was, it was gross.

[BehrItAll]

Yea, it used to freak me out.
First time I saw it I was like, "OMG WTH!?"

[stilldreaming]

I never thought it was gross... intriguing maybe, meant to make us wonder what Vader was really like under the armor. I also think that as of 1980, there was some debate as to whether or not Vader was even human, and that scene was meant to show that he was... to set up what was to come, I suppose? And to start the process of making the audience feel sorry for him.

[BehrItAll]

Well, I was 11-12 years old when I first saw it.

It wasn't until I saw Vader take the mask off and was redeemed in RotJ that I began to wonder what happened to him. The seeing EBS again after seeing RotJ, I was still a bit grossed out but more curious.

[basenji]

Yeah, in 1980, we learned he was human. In 1983, we learned he cared. That's how I saw it.

I honestly think the whole fight in ROTJ was staged for Palpatine's benefit. You can see at the very least Vader wavering in episode VI.

[stilldreaming]

Well, I rented and fell in love with ANH, bought the whole trilogy and watched them back to back and that's how I first saw ESB and ROTJ... so any concept of what it must have been like to wait three years between them is lost on me too.

I was also 12-ish, I think... still wasn't grossed out, but then again, I like angst. I think I've liked angst since the 3rd grade.

I don't know that the fight was STAGED... that sounds like Luke and Vader had planned it out beforehand and that seems very unlikely. If Palpatine hadn't been in the picture, though, they may never have fought. But Vader still wanted Luke to join him, I think he would have wanted that with or without Palpatine... although he was definitely doubting the Dark Side at that point.

Going back to what BehrItAll said in the Marica Lucas appreciation thread... does anyone think it was actually a bad move to show Vader's face at the end of ROTJ? Personally, I never thought so... we still don't get many details about his life or know at that point (provided you're watching the the RIGHT order... release order, that is) what he looked like before he became Vader... we get such a small but powerful glimpse of the good man that he was and the great man that he could have been, that I think it works really well. But I know some people (at least, back when I used to go to conventions and things, pre-1997) say that it would have been better if we'd never gotten any more than the back of his head.

[BehrItAll]

I was a squeamish kid.

The fight was NOT staged, or pre-planned at all.
Luke wanted to save his father from the dark side.
And though Vader showed some signs of redemption (which Luke felt the good in him which is why he wanted to save him) still Vader's objective was to get rid of Palpatine and have Luke join him.

I love the scene when he reveals himself to Luke. It fills my heart with so much emotion that he wanted to see Luke with his own eyes before he died. To really look at his son and tell him face to face that he was right.

Just no, I would not have been happy or satisfied with just the back of his head.

[basenji]

Actually, I liked showing Vader's face, regardless of what Chris Rock's character in Chasing Amy says. Plus, the idea of Vader being free of, well, Vader, was an awesome way to end the story. Finally, it showed that this bogeyman who haunted us for six years was actually quite vulnerable, in a way that didn't make us all retch like three Star Wars movies I can name.

[sum1]

Vader's death scene with Sebastian Shaw was one of the best scenes in the films. And Lucas screwed it up in the 2004 version by taking off Shaw's eyebrows, to make the OT fit in with the PT, when it should have been the other way around.

[stilldreaming]

Originally Posted by basenji (View Post) Actually, I liked showing Vader's face, regardless of what Chris Rock's character in Chasing Amy says. Plus, the idea of Vader being free of, well, Vader, was an awesome way to end the story. Finally, it showed that this bogeyman who haunted us for six years was actually quite vulnerable, in a way that didn't make us all retch like three Star Wars movies I can name.

Exactly!

[sum1]

Yes, it's actually quite a good post.