Star Wars - Kylo Ren (Adam Driver) #2 - "I feel it again... the call from light." - Page 2

katlicious · 01-02-2016, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post)

I think Kylo might end up killing Luke.

His character's original name was Jedi Killer.

I hope that scar convinces him to keep his mask off. We need more of THAT face and THOSE locks. Scar or no scar.

dragonfire · 01-02-2016, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post)

I think Kylo might end up killing Luke.

I don't know the person who wrote the first script before LK had it in order to save the day more like save Kira/Rey Luke would have sent Kylo to the lava and let him burn alive causing him to wear Vader's mask to stay alive.

It was like Kylo injured Kira/Rey Luke snapped and showed no mercy on Kylo.

katlicious · 01-02-2016, 12:28 PM

I found this from very reliable source. Shows how they did character progressions for Kylo and Rey:

Quote:

Right, so some of the discussion in this thread has gotten a little...well, let's politely call it "passionate" and leave it at that.

So, on another topic that I suspect many of us will find interesting, I'm going to collate and summarize how most of the major story decisions of The Force Awakens came about. Please note that this record is incomplete (there's one major, major spoiler choice that no one is talking about when it happened or who had the idea yet - Hide Spoiler Kylo Ren being Han and Leia's son ), and slightly based on rumor, but in the last couple of weeks two invaluable sources have gone public: first, the book The Art of the Force Awakens, which stretches the record back to the beginning of 2013 just after JJ Abrams was hired, and a WGA panel with Abrams, Lawrence Kasdan, and the "third man" in the TFA story equation: Michael Arndt. Entertainment Weekly has written up articles on many of the revelations there. All rumors will be in italics.

2010-2012 (various Lucas/Iger interviews): George Lucas begins preparing for retirement and looking to sell Lucasfilm. He comes into contact with Bob Iger, who wants him to sell to Disney. Disney is interested in a sequel trilogy. Lucas considers directing Episode VII himself, but instead simply prepares some initial story concepts. Kathleen Kennedy is installed as co-president of Lucasfilm.

Summer 2012 (EW/WGA): Shortly after her hiring, Kathleen Kennedy contacts Michael Arndt to inquire about his interest in writing the entire sequel trilogy. Arndt demurs, but accepts the Episode VII job. Kennedy's Episode VII pitch to Arndt is "the origin story of a female Jedi".

Summer/Fall of 2012 (EW/WGA): Arndt begins initial work on Episode VII in concert with Kennedy and Lucas. At that time, the plot is about "Kira", a young woman whose village is attacked by the villains, and goes to find Luke Skywalker. Initial MacGuffins discussed include the remains of Darth Vader and ancient Jedi artifacts. The villain is called "The Jedi Killer". It is likely at this stage that Kira is revealed to be a legacy character by the end of the script. Arndt discovers that once the story reaches Luke, it becomes hard to return the focus to the younger characters, so the choice is made to have the younger characters save the day at the end of the script themselves and then find Luke. From there, the story naturally moves to have the location of Luke be a central MacGuffin/mystery. There are even discussions that Luke may not appear until Episode IX, but it is decided the film should end with Luke Skywalker. It is also at this time that the initial male lead "Sam" emerged - essentially a Han Solo-type. The full Lucasfilm Ltd. company is informed of the decision to make the sequel trilogy in September 2012.

October 2012: The sale to Disney is finalized. It is possible at this point that the ideas Lucas claims were discarded are discarded.

November 2012: Rick Carter is hired as production designer for Episode VII, even before any director is set in stone. He forms a group called "The Visualists" who begin doing "guided imagery" explorations of what Star Wars is, visually. The team includes, among others, PT veteran Doug Chiang, and is one of the single most important groups within Lucasfilm in terms of breaking the story of the sequel trilogy.

December 2012 (EW): After JJ Abrams has initially passed on the Episode VII job, Kennedy meets with him again. Her pitch is similar to the Arndt pitch: female lead, "Who is Luke Skywalker?" Abrams accepts.

January 9, 2013 (Art of Force Awakens): The formal story group for Episode VII has its first meeting, including JJ Abrams, Kathleen Kennedy, Michael Arndt, Lawrence Kasdan, Simon Kinberg, Kiri Hart, Rick Carter, and the Visualists. It is at this meeting that the "junk planet" Jakku is pitched by Michael Arndt. "Kira" being a scavenger on said planet is adopted in the same meeting. They pick five images from Kurosawa films to outline the film tracking Kira's journey from fearful scavenger to burgeoning Jedi. Lucas' outlines are provided to the group. Anakin Skywalker's lightsaber playing a critical role in the film is in play at this point, as is the "Jedi Killer" having caused some devastating incident that has led to the estrangement of Luke, Han, and Leia.

January - June 2013 (Art of TFA/WGA/EW): The "guided art" story development phase. The art department churns out some truly wild ideas to help inspire where the story could go as Abrams, Arndt, and Kasdan/Kinberg (in consulting positions) work to crack the plot. Some major points (and intriguing digressions):
-The third male lead is initially called "John Doe" because no one knew who the **** he should be (Jedi and bounty hunter are both pitched), until...
-April, when in one single meeting JJ Abrams pitched both the characters of Finn and Poe and sent the story off in a wildly different direction. Finn initially decided to turn after seeing a bunch of rebels thrown into space by the First Order, and Poe ditched him at the crash (Finn was wounded, but found and healed in a strange ritual by a desert tribe). Then they decided to have Poe die in the crash.
-Michael Arndt and Dennis Muren pitched Starkiller Base, initially called "Doom Star" and was located on Dantooine. At one point, the Jedi Killer ate the sun matter Starkiller Base was powered by.
-The Jedi Killer's obsession with artifacts goes back to even before this time, but is explored heavily by the art department, as is the Jedi Killer himself. One idea in play was that he would dress as Darth Vader to mock Luke
-One intriguing art piece has a Force ghost of Anakin Skywalker - whose form would shift between light-Anakin and dark-Vader
-Another intriguing art piece has the first lightsaber - essentially a crystal with rope around it
-Going along with Starkiller Base being located on Dantooine, it was pitched that Leia's resistance would be headquartered out of Darth Vader's old castle
-Much was made of the location of the first Jedi Temple being in the Emperor's private archives...which could only be found in the ruins of the Emperor's tower from the second Death Star, which would be underwater. The Falcon would dive underwater, and Kira would have to swim into the tower - as in, where Luke and Vader's duel in ROTJ was.
-The Jedi Killer and his cohorts initially began as pirates, then evolved into the First Order and eventually the Knights of Ren
-BB-8 is developed as a droid named "Surly" who is introduced saving himself from a smelting facility in a wrecked Star Destroyer
-Han Solo was originally found in a location called "Crime City", even more down-and-out than he was in the film

July 2013-November 2013 (EW/WGA/TFA Art Book) - The Arndt phase
-At this point, many of the major points of the finished film are in play, including Maz Kanata (it is unclear when much of Kylo Ren's character emerged - all indications are that the Jedi Killer was one of the biggest issues in development the whole way through, but nearly everything else seems to have come up by now. It is likely that "Kira" was still definitively revealed as a legacy character in the script at this point)
-This one reveals a major, major spoiler for the finished film: Hide Spoiler In Arndt's initial outlines and draft, Han Solo lived and got back together with Princess Leia. Abrams is unconvinced by this, calling Han "luggage". Abrams tells Arndt that Han's story has to have something "permanent" happen in it, or else the character's inclusion in the film is pointless. This is almost certainly the point that Han Solo's death emerged and, if I may make a guess, the discussions of how to kill off Han possibly led to the birth of Kylo Ren as he exists in the finished film.
-Arndt struggles with the script, and ultimately finds that his timetable and Disney's do not line up. The decision is made to let Arndt go and have Abrams and Kasdan take over. Kasdan wants to throw out everything that had been done previously, Abrams dissuades him by pointing out that they would both be quickly incorporating what they most liked from previous development anyway.

November 2013-May 2014 (EW/WGA/Art Book/Assorted interviews of Abrams/Kasdan/actors): The Abrams/Kasdan scripting phase
-Abrams and Kasdan begin scripting. Most elements from the finished film are still in this phase, and it is probably at this point that both the Jedi Killer and Kira are revealed as legacy characters, and that they are renamed Kylo Ren and Rey.
-One major exception: Poe Dameron is still seen as dying in the TIE Fighter crash. The role is apparently offered to Michael Fassbender and possibly Chiwietel Ejiofor, both of whom turn it down. But when Abrams and Kennedy meet Oscar Isaac in March 2014 to discuss the character, Abrams decides that if Isaac accepts, Poe will survive. Isaac accepts the role (he had been dubious due to the character's early planned death, but ultimately decided that he wanted to work with Abrams). The script is altered so that Poe survives (much to Isaac's delight), prompting some additional emphasis on the X-Wing part of the final space battle (which was initially to involve a Resistance supership called The Juggernaut which would ram Star Destroyers)
-Another major exception: Captain Phasma. In one of their many, MANY designs for the Jedi Killer, the art department pitches the final Phasma design. Abrams loves it, but not for the JK. The script had featured a few different stormtrooper officers in tiny roles, they are now condensed into Phasma, with the idea to introduce Phasma here and do more with him/her in future films (Abrams is rumored to have initially talked with Benedict Cumberbatch about the role, but in May he goes to Gwendoline Christie for the part - quite possibly in response to the initial uproar over Ridley being the only new major female performer)
-Hux is said at this point to have been an older Imperial commander who survived the Battle of Endor, but they ultimately decide to go in a younger direction, likely to emphasize a particular characteristic of the First Order as compared to the Empire
-The design of Maz Kanata was supposed to have been finalized at this point so the character could be a puppet (sets were even planned with this in mind), but Maz's design is not finalized until October 2015
-It isn't quite clear when exactly Rian Johnson is hired, but it was certainly before he was officially confirmed to be writing and directing Episode VIII in June 2014. Abrams has confirmed that certain elements in TFA were tweaked - possibly by Johnson himself - to better prepare for Episode VIII. One guess would be the flashback, which initially revealed more of Rey's heritage and the full journey of Anakin's lightsaber. Another guess would be the interrogation scene, which at one point in the development apparently revealed Rey's full backstory. It is also possible that, if Kira/Rey was initially revealed as a Skywalker/Solo, that this was cut to put more emphasis on Hide Spoiler the reveal of Kylo Ren as Ben Solo . Regardless, elements that hint at Rey being either a Solo or a Skywalker remain in the finished film, with more of them leaning towards the latter.

Now, there are definitely some shifts that happen during filming. What they are isn't quite as clear, and there are still definitely some mysterious elements of the process outlined above, but this has been personally quite fascinating to follow over the last couple of weeks. The Art of TFA book is really worth reading if you're a fan - there's some genuinely beautiful work that I hope appears in the next two films. Hope this was interesting and illuminating for people!

As to the rumors: my sources for these are generally second-hand, though these are people who have ties to LFL/the SW spoiler world. I won't go into detail here, but I trust them and their stuff has panned out (for instance, I was told at the beginning of June 2014 that Christie was playing a chrome stormtrooper commander). There's a bit of my own guesswork in there, but I've tried to specify wherever I go out on a limb versus what I've heard

The STAR WARS: Episode VII Thread: The Bluth Awakens - Page 35

emptyMERMAiD · 01-02-2016, 12:42 PM

I'd like to see Kylo get progressively more twisted/disfigured as the trilogy goes on.

Maybe he'll lose a hand in the next film (someone probably has to)

sum1 · 01-02-2016, 12:47 PM

THank you for the information, katlicious.

katlicious · 01-02-2016, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emptyMERMAiD (View Post)

I'd like to see Kylo get progressively more twisted/disfigured as the trilogy goes on.

Maybe he'll lose a hand in the next film (someone probably has to)

OOf, no. I hated that about Anakin. he was,like, the most powerful Jedi blah blah yet lost all his limbs and some 2 times over, while inferior Jedi lost none. Can't we have some consistency? if you are good than keep your limbs, simple.

Also, I don't want more physical pain on top of his mental pain. Beating his wound was cool and psychologically deep so he should keep his limbs. he's a victim of Snoke's mind control. Why would anyone wish him more hurt?

You're welcome Sum. It's a good read, shows that Rey and Kylo were always the main characters.

rpmaluki · 01-02-2016, 01:00 PM

I'd like to see him get stronger in the dark side, he's come this far (killing his father).

katlicious · 01-02-2016, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpmaluki (View Post)

I'd like to see him get stronger in the dark side, he's come this far (killing his father).

That weakened him. Shown in the movie and confirmed in novelization.

dragonfire · 01-02-2016, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpmaluki (View Post)

I'd like to see him get stronger in the dark side, he's come this far (killing his father).

Me too

rpmaluki · 01-02-2016, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katlicious (View Post)

That weakened him. Shown in the movie and confirmed in novelization.

It weakened him but he's determined to see his course through to the end, He's made his choice, therefore I want him to be stronger in the upcoming movies. He can change his mind at the very last minute if they want him redeemed, not a minute before. Kylo is the villain personified (we follow him on screen), Snoke is the puppet master just a man in shadow on a screen, like Vader was the villain personified with Palpatine in shadow. Unless Rey turns to the dark side (it could be fascinating) while Ben return to the light, and I don't see Disney shooting themselves in the foot with their new heroine.

katlicious · 01-02-2016, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpmaluki (View Post)

It weakened him but he's determined to see his course through to the end, He's made his choice, therefore I want him to be stronger in the upcoming movies. He can change his mind at the very last minute if they want him redeemed, not a minute before. Kylo is the villain personified (we follow him on screen), Snoke is the puppet master just a man in shadow on a screen, like Vader was the villain personified with Palpatine in shadow. Unless Rey turns to the dark side (it could be fascinating) while Ben return to the light, and I don't see Disney shooting themselves in the foot with their new heroine.

Well changing mind in the last minute is stupid. Redemption arc has to run before the last minute. Sorry but NOT a fan of Vader redemption at all. he was evil in 2 movies, no textures/layers/light side moments like Kylo, and then out of blue we get this:

Luke:"There's good in him I can feel it."

Leia:"Huh?"

Luke:"I can feel a conflict in you father"

Vader:"Huh?"

Luke:"Father, I know you don't want to kill me!"

Vader:"Banzai!" (hacks and slashes with clear intention to kill)

Emperor: "Lohd Vaydah, you ah fired!"

Vader tosses Emperor in the pit. The end.

NO. Just No. Ben deserves better.

rpmaluki · 01-02-2016, 01:47 PM

Honestly I don't know what they will do. I only ask that it be well written and convincing. My hope (and dread, for Leia's sake) is that Kylo gets worse, not better. I don't want him redeemed at all, at least not until the end. If they are going to go the redemption route, he is highly likely to die in the process and that means Episode IX because he'll be finishing his training with Snoke in Ep VIII while Rey is training with Luke. That's almost as close to last minute as you can get.

Unless Rey is the one that will be the Sith if Snoke gets his way and they spend Ep IX trying to win her back into the light. Kylo will still have died sacrificially, unfortunately. I don't see any other way out for him.

dragonfire · 01-02-2016, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katlicious (View Post)

Vader tosses Emperor in the pit. The end.

NO. Just No. Ben deserves better.

That's like my favorite scene in SW Anakin defeated Vader/Emperor and saved his and Padme's only son.

rpmaluki · 01-02-2016, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonfire (View Post)

That's like my favorite scene in SW Anakin defeated Vader/Emperor and saved his and Padme's only son.

Nice.

After reading that post about how the characters developed, Kylo seems to have sprung largely from Han's death. Before then, he was simply a "faceless" Jedi killer. Kylo's fate may rest not in his own hands but how they want to treat Leia, going into the last stretch of the trilogy.

katlicious · 01-02-2016, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpmaluki (View Post)

Honestly I don't know what they will do. I only ask that it be well written and convincing. My hope (and dread, for Leia's sake) is that Kylo gets worse, not better. I don't want him redeemed at all, at least not until the end. If they are going to go the redemption route, he is highly likely to die in the process and that means Episode IX because he'll be finishing his training with Snoke in Ep VIII while Rey is training with Luke. That's almost as close to last minute as you can get.

Unless Rey is the one that will be the Sith if Snoke gets his way and they spend Ep IX trying to win her back into the light. Kylo will still have died sacrificially, unfortunately. I don't see any other way out for him.

I think that a lot hangs on how big legacy character he is. if he's the last Solo, than they may not be so eager to kill him. Of course, he and Rey can always make sweet love and have a Solo baby to easy Leia's pain.

That's the thing. he's a Dark Sider and she's a Light Sider, it kinda makes tons of sense that they would mate and have Power Puff Baby. That's why I'm surprised that they are hinting at blood relation when this angle is so obvious and also hinted at (with sexy overtones...am I in Kylo or reylo thread? I better be). I mean, considering that all 6 SW movies were kind of concerned about levels of power (who's the most powerful jedi, Sith, etc), Dark/Light child fits the bill, no? It's the saga where dark Lord got a random woman pregnant by manipulating midichlorians. It has always been a soap opera with Power Puff Kids, secret identities, etc.

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Fan Forum > Sci-Fi/Fantasy > Star Wars > Kylo Ren (Adam Driver) #2 - "I feel it again... the call from light."