Star Wars - Constructive Criticism of the Prequels. - Page 2

LittleMilkJug · 07-17-2003, 12:39 PM

JanineW your post is very interesting. But I am one fan that would have loved for TPM and AOTC to have been much more 'dark'. I understand that Lucas had a lot of exposition to get rid of in Ep1 but he did it at the great cost of character developement. IMO. Now, there are a lot of flaws in the OT but overall the characters were brilliant and thats what makes them so much better. I do like the new movies, and as I have stated above, TPM really does get better the more times I watch it, its just that I was left feeling slightly disappointed, exspecting more. But perhaps thats my own fault, perhaps I had my hopes up too high.
But without going into spoilers, I really hope that Ep3 will be even darker than ESB.

Devon [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Jei · 07-18-2003, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Liz:
 [img]smilies/thumbs_up.gif[/img] Good thread.
You're right TMP does get better with repeat viewings. But like you said the Original were far better and more enjoyable. I would like to see someone else direct Episode III and not uncle George but that's not gonna happen. I mean yeah these are his movies, his vision, his creation but a little help wouldn't hurt. He has excellent actors in Ewan, Hayden, Sam L, etc. But he needs better direction. When I first saw Episode II I didn't really like how Hayden delivered some of his lines making him look like a not so good actor.

[ 05-06-2003: Message edited Darth Liz ]

I have to admit I was right there with you on Hayden's line and his deilvery. I kept thinking I need to rewrite them for him. Some of it just sounded like someone was reading a badly written romance novel...or something. I've heard Hayden is a great actor, but I was wondering what on earth happened to him in this movie.

JanineW · 07-18-2003, 08:04 AM

And the bashing continues. How sad. I'm through with you guys. I think I'll stick with the Anakin Skywalker page.

One last thing. I've watched the Original Trilogy numerous times. It's amazing that while you guys are so busy bashing Hayden's performance or someone else in the PT, you've continued to overlook the flaws found in the OT - namely the dumb lines (Harrison Ford probably uttered the worst line in the entire saga in Episode 4), wooden acting (check out Ford and Fisher in Episode 6, or Ford and Hamill in Episode 4) and sometimes questionable writing. But you won't, because you want to view the past with rose-colored glasses and join in the PT-bashing, which is the in-thing. Go ahead and close your mind. It seems that is all what so many people are capable of..

LittleMilkJug · 07-18-2003, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JanineW:
And the bashing continues. How sad. I'm through with you guys. I think I'll stick with the Anakin Skywalker page.

One last thing. I've watched the Original Trilogy numerous times. It's amazing that while you guys are so busy bashing Hayden's performance or someone else in the PT, you've continued to overlook the flaws found in the OT - namely the dumb lines (Harrison Ford probably uttered the worst line in the entire saga in Episode 4), wooden acting (check out Ford and Fisher in Episode 6, or Ford and Hamill in Episode 4) and sometimes questionable writing. But you won't, because you want to view the past with rose-colored glasses and join in the PT-bashing, which is the in-thing. Go ahead and close your mind. It seems that is all what so many people are capable of..

Wow, I'm sorry you feel that way. Just a few points 1) everybody on this board, one way or another loves Star Wars 2) If you read the title of this thread it says Constructive criticism of the Prequels which means this is a thread for Star Wars fans to 'point out','discuss' the 'bits' we didn't like about the prequels. Feel free to start a similar thread about the OT. Nobody 'bashes' Star Wars on this board and I think I speak for everybody here when I say that we all want the Star Wars films to do well and leave us awestruck.

Devon [img]smilies/look.gif[/img]

Jei · 07-18-2003, 10:30 AM

I'm sorry too as far as I'm concerned I wasn't bashing Hayden. I think he's a fine actor. I just feel he wasn't given good material to work with in the movie.

Mark Hamill did a lot of whinning in the first movie as well. But I feel his lines were better. Natalie has always had solid material as did Ben Kenobi.

On another note. Constructive Criticism means
Serving to improve or advance; helpful: constructive criticism.

That's not bashing.

[ 07-18-2003: Message edited Jei ]

Paul · 07-20-2003, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JanineW:
And the bashing continues. How sad.

Firstly, I can't see any bashing; it's criticism, as the thread title suggests. We all love Star Wars, we wouldn't be here if we didn't, but feel that something has been lacking from the Prequels. I still think they're great films, and have watched them both on DVD many times.

You do have a point with some of the acting in the OT! My friend and I always cringe at Luke's whining in Episode 4: "But I was going to Tosche Station to pick up some power converters!" I'll be the first to admit that the some of the acting isn't that good in either the OT or the PT, but then that wasn't my main criticism of the prequels; I actually didn't find Hayden's acting that bad.

My main gripe was the increased focus on CGI, which you have to admit is dominating a lot of movies these days, sometimes at the cost of the plot.

Maybe some of us are looking at the past through rose tinted glasses. My first viewings of the originals was during my carefree childhood and yes, watching them again does take me back to that time. I don't see that as a bad thing. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Jei · 07-21-2003, 10:44 AM

I think sometimes, in some movies the CGI is there to hide lack of plot.

Luke did whine (a lot) in the first movie and you can see in these prequels that he got that trait from his father [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img].

It's easier to pick on Hayden's Anakin just because Star Wars isn't new as it was for Mark Hamil back in the day. We've all grown up and lived with the Original Star Wars movies for so long that I think this second wave of Star Wars Eps are suffering from sequel-itess. I like the older movies because the focused more on plot with the FX there for enhancement.

Sometimes in the newer movies I fell like the FX are being pushed on the audience as if it were some visual drug. Still nothing should be taken away from either set of movies because they all have some really great things about them.

Me I'm just an old school type o girl.

TheCheshireKitten · 07-21-2003, 07:01 PM

It doesn't have anything to do with nostalgia in my case - I wasn't interested in Star Wars at all as a child. I had watched the original trilogy maybe once. I didn't become a Star Wars fan until I was fifteen, when I decided to give the original trilogy a try. This was before TPM came out in theatres. I just simply think the original trilogy were better made movies.

Whenever I say something about the characters in the prequels meeding work- someone always brings up the acting in the originals. IMO, the acting in the originals was spot on - probably because the characters were obviously the top priority then. When people think of Star Wars, what comes to mind from SW first? Usually a character. Like Darth Vader. Luke Skywalker. Han Solo. Yoda. Etc. Even if someone isn't a fan, they can usually name a character from the films. That says a lot, IMO, about what made the OT.

As much as I don't care for Natalie Portman, I do believe these actors could get better performances out of these roles than what they do- if the characters they were portraying had more development and time spent on them, and less on the little things such as background characters, or fancy effects that should enhance the story, not take it over. I see moments in the prequels - moments of potential, moments where it reaches the level that the OT was on with its characters. Like Anakin's confession scene to Padme', his speaking with Palpatine, and an argument or two with Obi-wan. But there just isn't enough focus on the story long enough to get the full effect of the characters or the plot, which IMO, is just as interesting, if not more so than the OT plot. Darth Vader's fall to the Dark Side. That's a hell of a plot right there. I suppose I just wish the prequels were more about the people, like Anakin, and less about the look.

[ 07-21-2003: Message edited TheCheshireKitten ]

Paul · 07-22-2003, 12:37 AM

TheCheshireKitten, it's interesting to hear your views on the OT since you viewed it much closer to the release of the PT that most of us have. I think I would still form the same opinion in your situation, though I can't prove it of course.

It'd be interesting to see how the new movies might have differed if George had been limited to only using 80s technology!

LittleMilkJug · 07-22-2003, 07:55 AM

OK, I cant take it anymore, I just have to bash. I know we aren't meant to, but I cant help myself..

[img]smilies/burn.gif[/img] DIE JAR JAR DIE [img]smilies/burn.gif[/img]

I know, it wasn't very constructive, but it felt good.

TheCheshireKitten · 07-23-2003, 02:24 PM

Didn't like Jar Jar, eh? [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

I didn't either, but the way they used him for comic relief was what got on my nerves. The time they spent on Jar Jar could've been used for more important characters, like you know, Obi-wan, for example, whose part in TPM was next to nothing compared to Qui-Gon's.

[ 07-23-2003: Message edited TheCheshireKitten ]

AlexEvans · 07-24-2003, 02:16 AM

Jar Jar didn't really annoy me, but that he took time away from more interesting characters is a valid point.

Actually, I found Anakin the annoying one, especially in the first movie. Tied in with this was the incredibly cheap ending to the first movie. He accidentally saves the day? Jar Jar accidentally destroying a few droids, miraculously missing his own side... okay, I'll buy that. Reluctantly. But that the whole battle depends on a little kid saving the day by accident just doesn't work for me.

[img]smilies/abduct.gif[/img] [img]smilies/read.gif[/img]

TheCheshireKitten · 07-24-2003, 02:02 PM

That didn't work for me, either. Which is why I think Anakin should've been older in Episode 1. A teen would have been more effective, and would have allowed more time for adult Anakin (eventually Vader) to develop in Episodes 2 and 3.

I hated that he saved the day accidently.

Paul · 07-27-2003, 07:33 AM

Yeah, it was a bit daft. I get that Lucas was trying to show what a good pilot Anakin was from an early age, but I agree that it might have been best if he'd been in his teens for TPM.

Rogue Jedi · 07-29-2003, 01:28 AM

i heard that ep.3 is to start with a huge space battle.