Milquetoast_onacid

I was watching Accession today with the resurgence of the D'jarras. Your D'jarra runs through your family line, so that got met thinking. What about someone like Odo? Wouldn't they have a D'jarra for those not born as a Bajoran but raised in it's society? It would be interesting to see that if they had kept them through the occupation, what sort of job would he be allowed to have? And would he have still met Kira? Kira who would have been an artist and no doubt someone with a higher d'jarra than him.

I wish that DS9 had explored that more often. It was interesting aspect of the Bajoran society. And an interesting look at them from a cultural standpoint of how they were before the occupation.
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- Going off of that. I had read in ST magazine (the Romance Issue) that this was the first ST romance that was not planned. I think perhaps because of that, that
made it that much more interesting. A lot of the TV romances out there feel too contrived because of all of that planning. It doesn't feel natural and you always know they will eventually hook up. If I had been watching DS9 when it was on, I wouldn't believe until His Way that they would ever get together.

- As I have read (I dont recall where) that Andrew J. Robinson was in the running for Odo. Imagine him as Odo and if Forbes had said yes to a series.

Wes&FredFan

Can't picture anybody else in those roles - Rene and Nana onscreen were like lightning in a bottle. Another example of two actors being just perfect for their roles and really clicking are EJO and MM on BSG. I ship Adama/Roslin .

laurelgirl120

I really enjoyed the way DS9 explored Bajoran political/religious/cultural society in the early seasons. Unfortunately, disappointing ratings gave Paramount the leverage to force the writers to add more action/adventure to draw in the young male audience. I also think TPTB were uncomfortable with the religious aspects of the show and wanted that toned down.

By the time Odo was found in the Denorious Belt, Bajor was occupied and the D'jarra's abandoned. If the occupation never happened and the D'jarra's still a part of the culture, as xenophobic as Bajor was, Odo would have been ostracized from Bajoran society or placed in the lowest D'jarra caste. I seriously doubt he would have ever come into contact with Kira. BTW, loved that scene in "Accession" when Odo confronts Kira about transferring her faith to the new Emissary. Nana really sells that scene.

Sadly, most TV romances are artificial and contrived. That's how I saw Jadzia's relationship with Worf. I never saw any chemistry there. Same with Julian and Ezri. Just throwing Ken and Barbie together, IMO.

As far as DS9 actually taking the plunge and FINALLY getting Odo and Kira together, I think that only happened because - knowing they were sending Odo back to his people at the end of the series - it had to mean something in terms of self-sacrifice. If they left it an unrequited love, Odo wouldn't have 'left anything behind.'


I was thinking the exact same thing. I'm sure Andy would have done a good job as Odo, but the casting people definitely got this one right. Andy was so great as Garak, and of course Rene nailed Odo. I was never a big fan of Michelle Forbes, so I'm really glad she declined the DS9 offer.

Like you, I was a latecomer to DS9, so I had the benefit of hindsight. I knew how O/K would turn out, but that means no weekly suspense like those who watched the show in it's initial run. Imagine how those fans felt when they aired "His Way."

Funny thing is, even knowing Odo and Kira would eventually get together, when I watched "Crossfire" a while ago, I would have sworn Odo had excised Kira from his life and heart. It wasn't until a few episodes later that you could see he was still in love with her. Again, the writers just couldn't overcome their on-screen chemistry.

Wes&FredFan

I was one of those who watched His Way live in the initial run ... and I squealed . Loudly. Totally fangirled. And replayed the kiss ... a lot. It was an emotional roller coaster watching it live, let me tell you .

The kiss definitely made up for it .

Milquetoast_onacid

- I had heard the same thing. I think that if the show was on now, they could have delved much more into it. On the other hand, I think it's pretty amazing what they did actually get away with.
- That is such a struggle for her in this episode and I love the scene where she tries to make those terrible birds. Speaking of Odo being raised in the Bajoran culture. Has anyone noticed if he claps like a Bajoran? I know this is such a little trivial thing but I can't quite make it out if he does clap like them.
- D/W didn't bother me so much. I never really understood why they got married, though. And I thought that Change of Heart was the best they did as a couple. I sort of saw them as a contrast to O/K. The humorous lusty couple that weren't very complicated. Now, J/E I didn't care for, and it simply was not needed. Trek's last minute romances never seem to work out and post-series books have all of them split up (W/T <--don't actually know if they split in the books). I'm not sure why they chose to repeat something that never seemed to sit well with the fans . Julian had way more interesting relationships with Garak & O'Brien. I really rooted for J/G. And Ezri I felt at that point in her life was still trying to figure out herself as person, as Ezri and as Dax.
- The producers were really into her. So much that not only did they want her for DS9 but also for Voyager. Which I just found out about them wanting her for Voyager. So because she turned both shows down, we got Kira & B'Elanna.
- I've read reviews where many people say they clapped or hollered when they kissed. I'm sure I would have done the same.
- You know I had thought that too, but as I re-watched the series for the first time. I had noticed that despite the fact that he chooses to close himself off from her; he doesn't actually do it. I was very surprised by that because I had thought that I had remembered it like that. But in the very next episode Return to Grace Kira says to Odo that she will explain the situation (Ziyal living on the station) later. Implying that the two of them do still have a friendship of sorts. Just not as close as it was. And in various episode after that they still gravitate towards each other.

crazy_diamond

It's great when you get actors that click instantly on screen..

In D Minor

Thanks for the welcomes, everyone!

I watched the series in prime time. It was absolute stupid flipping agony waiting for Kira and Odo to get their stuff together. It was years of waiting. Rarely has anything fictional caught me up so much, but by the sixth season, even I had given up.

Then "His Way" aired, and though I didn't care for the liberal coating of Velveeta they covered that episode with, that kiss was perfect. So in character, so typical of them, and so placed at just the right moment. In my house, we were dancing around, laughing and cheering, yelling "FINALLY!" Again, smart writers.

As far as "Crossfire," another favorite moment in series history for me, I didn't buy for a second he quit loving her. You can't just shut that off. The look on his face when she hugs him is utterly tragic. It was self preservation for him to give her up, which made the drama very real-life to me. Matters of the heart, fictional or real, are never simple.

And as someone else pointed out, their Tuesday morning meetings resumed not too long after.

clairepear28

I feel really disappointed that ds9 is not available on netflix of amazon in the UK. I cannot believe it's available yet . I cannot seem to find it on either of these and I think Star Trek should be available to all . Anyone on the UK feel the same ?

Milquetoast_onacid

- Ha ha! I think that's the best description! I love it, you crack me up.

- I agree, Odo is a bit of a pressure cooker when it comes to his emotions. And it doesn't take much to set Kira off. I love how they just forgot themselves and finally gave in.

- Oh yes, I love that episode. It's so bittersweet. That scene where he waits outside her quarters all night. Is a moment that has stuck with me ever since I saw the episode for the first time. It's so very depressing. As for loving her anymore. They don't refer to it for a long time and then the FC, Troi and Quark bring it up. When any of them do bring it up he doesn't deny it. Troi asks him point blank if he still loves her, but he doesn't answer her. To me that said it all, because if he didn't love her anymore he would have just said no. And I'm glad that they were realistic about it. And didn't just have him suddenly not love her anymore. I hate to say this but if this were Voyager that would have been the last time we would have heard about it.

- Hopefully it will be available soon. I think that (from what I've heard) is that DS9 might have the last ST to go up on Netflix.

laurelgirl120

Was Odo still in love with Kira in the aftermath of "Crossfire?" Yes - his silence to Lwaxana when she asked was confirmation of that. However, Odo was so full of self-loathing he couldn't envision that Kira could ever return his feelings, and he simply decided to put an end to the torment of spending more than 'essential' time with her. Throughout the rest of the 4th season their interactions are pretty sporadic. Yes, they have some communication, but it's more in passing.

Odo's downfall as to his resolve to limit their time together was when the Founders made him a human. As a Changeling, Odo had biological control over his body - something he DIDN'T have once he was turned into a human. I think Odo's physical reactions to Kira as a human was what cracked his resolve. He just couldn't help himself. During the first half of the 5th season you see the resumption of their Tuesday meetings and some social interaction. By the time of "The Darkness and the Light," Odo is even more hopelessly in love with Kira than ever before. By the time he regained his Changeling abilities, Odo realized he would just have to live with his unrequited love. That didn't stop him from falling for - and having sex with - Arissa.

I firmly believe that if Gaia Odo hadn't spilled the beans, Odo would never have told Kira he was in love with her.

Wes&FredFan

^ I doubt he would have as well.

In D Minor

Agreed, though does anyone else get really bothered by the whole Odo-as-human thing, and the real lack of exploiting such a plot twist? It always seemed improbable to me that one could go through such fundamental change, and just walk around like nothing happened. I can never figure out if the writers were giving us rabid fans something to chew on until Nana Visitor had her baby, or if it was a way to cut the FX budget, or what. Does anyone have inside info on that, any interviews, articles?

And don't get me started about "The Begotten." The only worse cop-out was the closet scene.

As far as Arissa, I like that episode more than any O/K episode. (I know, don't punch the screen! Hear me out!) I liked that they gave Odo that chance to have some peace, some affection. It would have been too cheesy if Kira was his first. It was also one of the sexiest episodes of Trek I can recall, and so sweetly handled. Would we have truly bought Odo as Kira's lover if we hadn't already seen him as one? I think it would have made him look pitiable if he'd won her without us knowing he had options. And would take them.

Which brings me to another question. I said myself, matters of the heart aren't easy, but I still have a hard time believing someone who is basically chief of police for a city in the middle of a war zone would be so clueless about people, especially since that someone is supposedly an "observer" of human nature. Odo was a boss, yo. A leader, and apparently, we're told, a good one. Maybe that's why I never bought "His Way" so much, or some of the little stolen scenes we've been talking about that came after. They clowned it up too much sometimes.

Or maybe I've watched way too much of this series. I'll quit typing now.

ChakotaysLover

I love the new thread title!!! Hahahah!!

Wes&FredFan

Oh yeah ... That massage scene was so intimate - not just physically,but emotionally as well. It shows the lighthearted banter of a couple who loves each other deeply and have known each other for a long time. It's almost like a "springball seduction" - Odo and Kira play springball. Odo wins, but so does Kira - she gets a massage for her strained muscles. This leads to a naked Kira lying down on a bed in front of Odo, who puts his hands on her and rubs her down. Win, win . Of course, Odo mentions that he's going away and the subject changes from lighthearted teasing about Kira's springball training to Odo spotting that she's worried about him leaving and holding her, reassuring her he'll be careful.

Loved Odo's expression during the massage ... he's clearly turned on. The way he says, "How's that?" Would love to know who's idea the massage was .

ChakotaysLover

Oh yes!! I love the massage scene! LOL! Odo is putting all of his attentiveness into it, while Kira lies there taking it all in.

I love how he tells her not to worry and kira goes, "Worried? Ha! This just gives me time to practice my backhand." Even though she's trying to laugh it off, you know she wants to go with him, to make sure that he'll be ok.