[Chris]

Originally Posted by Allison'sGirlfriend (View Post) Oh, Tom would absolutely have had to initiate it. And he would have had to be very persuasive. But I think he could have gotten through to her.

It certainly would have been fun to watch him try.

Originally Posted by Allison'sGirlfriend (View Post) I thought she was actually more caring with Kes, whom she viewed as a child. A very accomodating child. To me, Seven was more like her rebellious teenager. At least in the beginning (season 4) and sometimes afterwards. I think Kathryn would have liked to have been an older sister to Seven, if she hadn't always had to lay down the law as it were for her.

Personally, I always preferred Janeway's relationship with Seven. While she did mother Kes a bit, I thought the maternal instincts came out more with Seven.

Originally Posted by esdawet (View Post) those Voyager women really know how to treat themselves, they know what they want Kathryn is one distinguished Star Trek captain. don't ya love a woman in a command?

Definitely. Although the franchise never had an issue with trying to enhance some of the female's natural attributes, they were always, well written strong characters.

[Allison'sGirlfriend]

Originally Posted by Chris (View Post) Personally, I always preferred Janeway's relationship with Seven. While she did mother Kes a bit, I thought the maternal instincts came out more with Seven.

Yeah, I can see that. I guess I sort of gravitated toward the friction between them, at least as the seasons progressed. But, frankly, I got tired of Seven, so I think that colors my view towards their relationship. I will say that Kathryn was fairly maternal with Harry as well. At least she was in the beginning.

Originally Posted by Chris (View Post) Definitely. Although the franchise never had an issue with trying to enhance some of the female's natural attributes, they were always, well written strong characters.

And that's where you had Barbie-like Seven. I always thought Kathryn was much sexier (but that could just be me). And I think TPTB were afraid to let Kathryn get too sexy because they weren't confident enough with a female being able to be in charge and still be a woman, though goodness knows Kate tried. We had glimpses though, and I suppose I should be happy with that at least.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Allison'sGirlfriend (View Post) Kathryn was fairly maternal with Harry as well. At least she was in the beginning.

I don't remember that lasting for long though. It might have been nice to see a little more of that.

Originally Posted by Allison'sGirlfriend (View Post) And that's where you had Barbie-like Seven. I always thought Kathryn was much sexier (but that could just be me).

Agreed. I've never thought that a woman needed to dress provocatively to be sexy. Self confidence can be far sexier than somebody trying to exploit their natural attributes. A low neckline is often just a distraction tactic.

Originally Posted by Allison'sGirlfriend (View Post) And I think TPTB were afraid to let Kathryn get too sexy because they weren't confident enough with a female being able to be in charge and still be a woman, though goodness knows Kate tried. We had glimpses though, and I suppose I should be happy with that at least.

Could be part of it. I suppose having a female captain was a bit of a risk, so they wanted to be sure that she came across as businesslike. And honestly, I think Kathryn would have wanted to come across as professional while on the job.

[Allison'sGirlfriend]

Originally Posted by Chris (View Post) Could be part of it. I suppose having a female captain was a bit of a risk, so they wanted to be sure that she came across as businesslike. And honestly, I think Kathryn would have wanted to come across as professional while on the job.

Oh, yeah I agree that Kathryn wanted to be as "captain-like" as possible while on the job. And the thing with Voyager was that she was pretty much on the job the whole time. So I'm sure she let a lot of her more private traits languish. But, we did get glimpses her and there. I just wish that being professional didn't mean being less feminine, which sadly I think it was when Voyager was on, and is even still today.

[Chris]

Really though, I think most of the Trek captains were portrayed as on the job most of the time. There were a few episodes when they had holodeck time, and we got to see a little more of their characters then.

Agree that a woman can be professional and feminine at the same time. In Kathryn's case though, I think she had to start out showing a firm hand if she had any hope of making the merged Starfleet and Maquis crew work as a team.

[Allison'sGirlfriend]

You're right about Trek captains being portrayed as on the job most of the time. What I meant was different about Voyager was that in the show, there was really nowhere for Janeway to go, to get away from things. She couldn't take her two weeks at Risa or whatever. Her vacations were a couple hours on the holodeck, unlike the others who could travel to Earth or whatnot.

And I also agree that she had to be tough from the get go with the Maquis. She had to be stronger than Chakotay if she was gonna hold any authority over them.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Allison'sGirlfriend (View Post) What I meant was different about Voyager was that in the show, there was really nowhere for Janeway to go, to get away from things. She couldn't take her two weeks at Risa or whatever. Her vacations were a couple hours on the holodeck, unlike the others who could travel to Earth or whatnot.

True. I hadn't thought of it that way.

And I also agree that she had to be tough from the get go with the Maquis. She had to be stronger than Chakotay if she was gonna hold any authority over them.

Exactly. I was glad to see her character mellow with time, and to see her relationship with Chakotay one based on mutual respect.

[Allison'sGirlfriend]

Well I think it helped Kathryn tremendously that Chakotay was former Fleet. He knew the importance of chain of command and that she was "the" captain.

And yeah, she did mellow as the seasons progressed.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Allison'sGirlfriend (View Post) Well I think it helped Kathryn tremendously that Chakotay was former Fleet. He knew the importance of chain of command and that she was "the" captain.

True. He'd be familiar with all the procedures, protocols, expectations. He obvioulsy respected her, and that would make it easier for him to give her a chance to prove herself and then accept her as captain.

[Allison'sGirlfriend]

I was kinda sad that we didn't get more of the struggle between Fleet and Maquis on the ship. It seemed to me that everybody started getting along rather quickly. And I would have loved to have seen Kathryn more hands on in the melding of the crew.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Allison'sGirlfriend (View Post) I was kinda sad that we didn't get more of the struggle between Fleet and Maquis on the ship. It seemed to me that everybody started getting along rather quickly.

Honestly, I enjoyed Voyager more once they got past the initial struggle of melding the crews. You're right though that it wouldn't have been easy, and it would have been more realistic to have a few more storylines where the old tensions came into play.

And I would have loved to have seen Kathryn more hands on in the melding of the crew.

True, but it's also a sign of a good captain to delegate and let those she put in charge take care of things.

There was the Seska storyline that tried to bring the Maquis loyalties back into play.

[Allison'sGirlfriend]

Originally Posted by Chris (View Post) True, but it's also a sign of a good captain to delegate and let those she put in charge take care of things.

You're right about that. I just loved Janeway so much that I wanted to see more of her. Even when she was the main focus of the episode.

Originally Posted by Chris (View Post) There was the Seska storyline that tried to bring the Maquis loyalties back into play.

Yeah, but I think that was sort of spoiled by the fact that she was really a Cardassian. I would have liked to see more of the other Maquis and friction with the Fleet crew. But, only at the beginning of the series. That later episode with the mind control thing was a little disappointing. Though I loved seeing the Janeway/Tuvok interaction there. I wish we had gotten even more of them through the series, 'cause I think that was one of the best relationships. Le Sigh.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Allison'sGirlfriend (View Post) Yeah, but I think that was sort of spoiled by the fact that she was really a Cardassian. I would have liked to see more of the other Maquis and friction with the Fleet crew. But, only at the beginning of the series.

Agree on both points. It would have been nice to see how they worked together to overcome their differences.

Originally Posted by Allison'sGirlfriend (View Post) That later episode with the mind control thing was a little disappointing. Though I loved seeing the Janeway/Tuvok interaction there. I wish we had gotten even more of them through the series, 'cause I think that was one of the best relationships. Le Sigh.

hmm ... is that the one where we see Tuvok go back and relive something from when he served with Captain Sulu?

[Allison'sGirlfriend]

Originally Posted by Chris (View Post) hmm ... is that the one where we see Tuvok go back and relive something from when he served with Captain Sulu?

No. Though, I did like that one a lot. Loved seeing Janeway helping Tuvok.

I can't remember the name of it now, but the episode I was talking about was where some Bajoran fanatic had planted memories in all the Maquis, or in Tuvok's mind (the details are a little fuzzy to me now ) and they were triggered by a message in the data stream. Then the Maquis took over the ship and Chakotay had Tuvok fire a phaser at Janeway (which was set not to work, but he didn't know that). And then Tuvok regained his senses and helped Janeway and the Fleeters take back the ship. And then all the Maquis had the switch or whatever turned off. I just found the whole plot fairly lame. But seeing Janeway and Tuvok on opposite sides and then together again was nice.

[Chris]

That sounds vaguely familiar, but I can't say I really remember it.

AS a character, Tuvok was rather under used. Seeing him interact more with Janeway would have been nice. Although at the time I'd probably be thinking "give me Chakotay!"