Aurelia

Amen to all of that. Will recognized her strength, encouraged it, and took pride in it. They were partners and Will trusted her to have his back and to let him have hers.

I also hate the whole idea that there relationship kept her trapped & weak because of that final scene at the very end. There was nothing to suggest that Elizabeth stayed on that island for 10 years, and nothing to suggest that Will told her to stay there. And there is nothing weak about a woman being a single mother during that time, nothing weak about a woman during that time building a life for herself all on her own, and there is nothing weak about a woman staying faithful to the man she loves & not letting the fact that they will be seperated for some time destroy her.

lisztomania

I agree with all your posts, very insightful.

Seive

It's been awhile.

Exactly. Exactly!

I love what you said about how Will encouraged her. In all their interactions, he treated her as an equal.

But he's going to stifle her freedom.

Funny, the only damsel in distress looking moment of DMC (her clutching his leg, no less ... good grief) didn't involve Will somehow telling her to sit down and let him do it all, it involved Jack coming along and taking the musket away from her.

Will knows all about her skills with a blade because he taught her everything she knew. He knew that she could shoot, that she was good at it, probably because of the same reason. He trusted her to do the job. He does all the work of getting her ready, giving her all the skills she needs, never stifling her in any way, and then he gets hung with this ridiculous belief that she can never be free with him.



Elizabeth is the only person that this ever happened to ... got married and got pregnant right away, while her husband was away at sea (or, in more modern terms, overseas in the military).

I agree that the idea that she sits on the island is ludicrous. There is nothing weak about creating a life for herself and her child while she waits for her husband to return.

In that day and age, men in the military were gone for years. She wasn't the first or last woman that had that happen to her. The guys couldn't exactly fly home on leave during wars that lasted years.

Will didn't plan to be the CotFD. He didn't pursue it, unlike Jack, who wanted it. It was either that, or death.

This is what life handed the two of them. And I think that they love each other more than enough to wrestle it into submission.

Aurelia

That's one of the things I love about them. In a time when women were not thought of as men's equals and the common men were not thought to be equals to those born into wealth and privilege, Will & Elizabeth didn't talk down to each other, look down on each other, or disrespect each other.

I so hated that moment in DMC. It was such a major eye roll inducing moment. I would have much rather seen Elizabeth come back after being knocked down. Her clutching Jack's leg just seemed so pathetic and OOC. I am so glad we never had to see a scene like that with Will.

Exactly. A man who wants a "kept woman" does not help her develop/mature the skills to take care of herself. A man who wants a "kept woman" does not make her part of his plans. A man who wants a "kept woman" does not follow her lead. A man who wants a "kept woman" does not entrust her with matters/items of great importance.

Honestly, I think the fact that Will entrusted her with his heart proves how much faith and pride he had in her. He trusts her to keep his heart (the only thing keeping him alive) safe for ten years. He trust that no matter who/what comes after it that she can and will keep it safe. He entrusted her with his very life, knowing that he would not/could not be there to provide back up if needed.

Will isn't some guy lusting after a pretty girl. He is a man in love. A man who knows he's fallen for a strong and intelligent woman, and he enjoys that and is proud of it.

I know! Lord, is every woman who has stayed behind while their husband had to leave weak? It is ridiculous. As if being a pirate is the only way Elizabeth can be free or show strength. As if she would decide or Will would decide she needed to immediately have a personality transplant upon her marriage and give up her love of adventure. I have no doubt she sailed and had adventure while Will was away. Come on, no way would she pass up an opportunity to teach her son and show him the world. -and lets get real. Elizabeth likes the adventure of going to sea, fighting, going after treasure, making sure wrongs a righted and the guilty pay. I seriously doubt she would enjoy the kind of pirating that actually went on...ambushing innocent people, nights of drunkenness, filthy ports and even filthier men, etc.

Seive

Happy New Year to everyone.

This is an excellent point. Just as Will treated her as an equal, Elizabeth did the same.

I have yet to figure out how this moment shows Elizabeth to be a strong, free, independent woman. It was a throwback to all the pirate movies that had the woman as the damsel in distress and the pirate had to saaave her. Gah!

Yes, and yes, and yes. Will empowered her. He trusted her to do the job, to do what needed to be done. He had all the confidence in the world in her skills. They were a team, they were true partners.

A big amen to this. Will understood what she could do. Watch him help her back onto the Pearl in AWE, while she shares with him what her plan is.

He's not telling her she can't do it. He's not saying things like (paraphrasing here, lol) "They made you Pirate King (captain)!?! They're just giving the bloody title away!" He didn't bat an eye when she told him that Jack had made her king.

Will may not know why Jack did what he did ... and no, I don't believe that Jack voted her the title because he felt she could do it, but because it fit in with what he needed ... but Will sure isn't telling her that she isn't up to the job.

She's the pirate king, he's her first mate in this situation, and he's more than willing to take on that role. He trusts her and what she's capable of.

Exactly. She literally held his life in her hands.

It's ludicrous, really.

And I completely agree with your last point. Quite honestly, I think that a lot of people underestimate that "honor, decency and moral center" thing that Elizabeth has going on.

I don't know how so many people miss the fact that Elizabeth isn't a pirate. Not really. In every instance, she fought against the bad guys ... Barbossa and his awful crew, Cutler Beckett and the EITC (call them the big oil of their day, lol), a corrupt and cruel Davy Jones.

I'm not sure how much of a pirate, a real pirate, she could actually be. I can't see her being comfortable with lining up a ship like, oh, say the Edinburgh Trader in her sights, and then firing on them and blasting them to smithereens, all for the swag they carry. Honest, innocent sailors would die. How would she resolve that in her head?

No, I could see her maybe being a rum runner, a smuggler, something on the other side of the law, but not something that would go against her principles, or cause her to have innocent blood on her hands.

That's why Will is the pirate for her. He doesn't do it to do it, he does it because people he loves need him. Then he's all in.

Moonray13

hey guys could you please add me? I LOVED these two together

Always & Forever

Wow! So glad to see this thread active! Is this in place of the thread that was on the POTC board because I had been posting in that one?! Anyway, hope everyone is having a good new year's and I love seeing fellow admiration for these two because, despite how awesome Jack is, Will & Elizabeth were what made the movies for me!

EarthMom

I have to totally agree with this.

Elizabeth is a very specific type of pirate. There have only been two times that I can think of in the movies where her moral center had been challenged.

One would be after she bargains with Norrington to rescue Will. She knows that the undead pirates can't be killed, but she keeps that knowledge to herself ... for awhile.

I know that there is a lot that is made out of the "peas in a pod" scene. Many think that it proves that she and Jack are alike. But that's really not the case. Elizabeth can't send innocent men into a situation where they can't win. Her conscience gets the better of her, and she tries to tell them, through warning Gilette.

The same holds true for the kraken scene. She's eaten up with guilt, even though she's saved her own life and the lives of Will, Gibbs, Pintel, Ragetti and Cotton. She can't live with herself, and when the opportunity comes to make it right, she takes it.

Elizabeth, for all her love of pirates, could never do what they do. She couldn't blast another ship into oblivion, all for the sake of swag. Imagine her coming upon the dead body of a cabin boy, as she boards the ship to take their plunder. How would she ever live with herself?

No, Elizabeth is young and idealistic. And she got to be a "pirate" by fighting bad guys, like Seive said. Will had his own time to be a "pirate." I still laugh at how he fooled everyone as he negotiated the mutiny with Sao Feng behind everyone's back. And, if he wouldn't have been betrayed, he would have been successful.

But, in each case, Elizabeth and Will were both pirates, not because they were in love with the life style, but because they could do so without compromising their honor. Elizabeth fought the undead pirates, and EITC headed by the man who murdered her father. Will committed mutiny to get the Pearl, not because he wanted to be a pirate himself, but because he needed it to save his father from a horrible fate.

As Governor Swann said, "Sometimes piracy itself can be the right course." In Will and Elizabeth's cases, it was because, at the time, it put them on the side of right. But, to stay a pirate, and be a real pirate, would put them on the side of wrong, and I don't think that either one of them could do it.

nhlover4ever

Since I pretty much completely agree with everybody's defenses of Will and Elizabeth's relationship and the explanations regarding common misconceptions about it, I'm just going to leave it there and say that I have never, do not and will never understand the whole appeal of a Jack and Elizabeth pairing.

The infamous wedding kiss was both the hottest and most romantic kiss I've ever seen on film.

Always & Forever

I am totally bumping this for selfish reasons because I've noticed the Jack & Elizabeth thread has been on the first page a lot lately! And this couple deserves more than to be buried amongst all the threads of those who don't even belong together.

Same here. And that's all I'll say about that!

Aurelia

Hehe, good enough reason for me.

I'm gonna have to do a POTC re-watch. It's been a looong time. But Will & Elizabeth remain an awesome/beautiful couple.

Always & Forever

^Same here! It's been awhile since I've seen all 3 movies! I don't think I've ever seen them back-to-back, so I'd like to do that one day! And if not the whole thing, at least just the Will & Elizabeth parts!

Aurelia

Yeah, sometimes I get the W/E craving and I hit youtube and rewatch some of their scenes. I especially love that final scene on the beach, so playful/sexy/touching/angsty.

Always & Forever

The ONLY reason I will watch AWE is for their final scenes! The hot wedding kiss while they're fighting and the sexy knee kisses on the beach! OMG! I can't even stand it! They are just full of so much love & goodness!

*OldHollywoodStarlet*

I was going to ask to be added, but there isn't a list.

One of my favorite film couples! Been reading posts on this page and totally agree with what you guys have written!

ETA: Oh wow! Such a gorgeous video! Have you guys seen this?



Here's another one!