bogtree

Thank you for posting the article!

It does look like Grinenko worked mostly with Davis/White and maybe just helped out a bit with the other skaters' programs. But we have no idea how good of an ice dance choreographer she is or if she's better than other ballroom experts Tessa and Scott have worked with in the past. There's no point in getting all worked up about this.

I do think that Igor favours D/W, and that Marina favours V/M. So it balances out somewhat. But it has to be difficult to train with your main rivals. I'm sure it's very motivating, but at the back of your mind, you're probably wondering whether your coaches want the other team to win. It's bound to happen, no matter how fair the coaches try to be. I wouldn't be surprised if one of D/W or V/M leave Canton at some point (assuming V/M continue to compete).

augustexposure

Quit making leaps and reaching for things that may not even be there.
What lifts have D/W taken from V/M?
Why do refuse to believe that the two teams are just friendly competitors. If V/M weren't happy with the way they were treated or the amount of attention they got, they could have left. So lets trust that they're adults who can make decisions on their own. Quit making them out to be the victims of favoritism.
Besides, I always got the feeling that V/M were more under the wing of Marina rather than Igor and that's fine.

fsfan1

I always wish to ask Cantn skaters - when they found what music other skaters in there group choos and did they see there friends programs from the beginig or this must be secrete information during some time?
And if two or three teams want to use the same music, to do the same elements - how coaches have a deal with this? Reall yintresting to know.

Dont think Marina have favors - she look happy with made from individual sport team sport - thats why she worked with D-W programs during season, when from the begining this was really bad Igor choreo and Marina mad eit look a little better. Without this help V-Mbecome 2 time WCh. And she work with her son now.
In this situation werid thing is - Marina ask Grinenko to work with all teams, when Igor - only with D-W. So if you want to give only 1 team all best (i am sure, he afraid latin program for D-W, because he did bad latin dance for Chock-Zuerlan and the changed it and he see, how V- are good in dancing) - maybe other teams didnt need to pay him money? Why only Marina need to think about buisness?

I saw D-W wt Marina at CoR. She didnt let them even give interviews along. If she have V-M like her favors - D-W never won gold at WCh.
And if Igor didnt want to let other teams work with Grinenko, why Marina need to help D-W with FD choreo?
The problem is - all teams in too young, when Davis become 25 soon. They didnt understand, whats happened, they didnt know nothing about reall adult life.
Scotts relatives were very unhappy with WCh - so i cant understand, why they didnt let Scott know, that coaches didnt work on them anymore? They didnt work against them, but Igor work on Davis, Marina - on Fedor and Shibs. And they need T-S only to sold them for better places for USA teams.
But i think for V-M its a badtig to have the same chorejgrahfer with D-W. We really dont know, what Grinenko could do on ice and i know, and D-W not strong off-ice dancers.

kris9918

Once again, you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Despite the fact that you admittedly have no idea what the training schedule is for each of the individual teams at Arctic Edge, what their specific goals are for the upcoming season, and what coaches are looking for each team to improve upon, you continue to let your completely unfounded insinuations about Meryl and Charlie being given unfair advantages over Tessa and Scott cloud almost every post you make on this board, and it's a tired act. Maybe Igor saw something in Elena's choreography he thought would suit Meryl and Charlie while he was looking elsewhere for choreographers that would similarly suit his other teams and later changed his mind after the first session with her. Or maybe Tessa and Scott's SD is going to be very different from Meryl and Charlie's in terms of style, or Tessa and Scott requested to work with specific choreographers (and did) before Igor brought Elena to Arctic Edge. Who knows.

I find it humorous that you're the poster (here and elsewhere) always complaining about Tessa and Scott not using more outside choreographers that are different from the ones used by Meryl and Charlie, but when an article comes out (on a figure skating website that concentrates on American skaters) highlighting how an outside choreographer was brought in for Meryl and Charlie, you use it as potential proof that the fix is in and Tessa and Scott are possibly being screwed over by their coach.

"Asking permission" is likely, as shsocu pointed out, done as a professional courtesy, not done because Meryl/Charlie/Igor always make sure to get the biggest slice of the pie before doling out the rest of it to the other teams in the rink.

It appears that whatever set up they've got going in Canton works well for all the teams. I'd imagine that at this point in their careers, if there was some kind of deeply held suspicion about favoritism hindering the success of one or more of the top teams, Meryl/Charlie or Tessa/Scott are in the position where they could leave if they wanted to. But they appear very happy and content with the atmosphere in the rink and the way Igor and Marina run operations. I also think it's very possible that Meryl/Charlie and Tessa/Scott not only enjoy training together on account of the motivation factor having your biggest rivals in the rink can bring, but that they want one another there, day in a day out. And if that's the case, why leave? They're working with two of the top coaches in the sport (if not the top coaches), and they're inspired to improve and push the sport by watching their biggest competition everyday on the ice. It also appears that Igor and Marina, because they've been working together so long, are incredibly adept at creating a competitive environment for their skaters where they're challenged both technically and artistically, while also providing them with equal opportunities. In other words, while it may seem strange and/or unbelievable to some, Marina and Igor have it down to a science and it works.

fsfan1

I agree with you in one thing - if V-M didnt have a goal to win gold again, they dont need to change coaches and choreo and could stay at home, sweet home
You didnt find werid, that Marina ask Grinenko to work with her group after she and her skaters return on ice? If they had different vision for Shibs, Kh-A - why they need to do this?
And i know, what Igor do with there teams and what is Marinas work.

Before Marina brought Tsaikovskay for both teams before OG. She could ask her to work only with Tessa and Scott, but she didnt this.
I understand, this is really good news for D-W fans, but if people want to see reall situation - is this look greate? Before both teams had dance instructors, but now thins change?
I wish to see D-W programs without Marinas help - only pure Igor choreo.

bogtree

Marina and Igor are clearly considered the top ice dancing coaches right now, so it might not be the best idea to leave. But things change, the momentum might move to another training center in a couple years (unlikely, yes, but it could happen). Plus, there are a number of other good ice dance coaches out there. You're clearly a bigger fan of the Canton coaching team than I am. I think they do a great job, but they're not perfect and are a bit overrated by the judges right now. I'd kind of like to see what V/M could do with other coaches.

The problem is that it's impossible to provide perfectly equal opportunities. The skaters get different programs, different lifts, different music choices. I think it's human nature to wonder if the other team got the better deal. The situation has worked so far and it might continue to work, but it's not a given. There is bound to be some tension, especially in a sport where there's a lot of behind-the-scenes politics and what is done on the ice only partly determines the result (it would be naive to think COP has gotten rid of all of that).

fsfan1

And now this could be the perfect time to do this. And V-M the team who is so good and dont need politic help.
Sad this never will happened
No one is perfect. And after S-B split and Bates start working with Chock - i dont this this will help S-Z reputation.

teaspoon

You could talk about Meryl and Charlie in there own tread. You no, there tread wich isnt grow so fast, like this one and i think, if you start discuss them in there own tread it will grown fatser

fsfan1

I am talking about V-M coaches and about there traning camp - so i think this is right place to do this

hackysack

Hey guys, long time no see! Real life has kept me away from the fandom for a while, but I'm super excited to find out what Tessa and Scott come up with for next season.

And about Igor bringing in another choreographer to work with Meryl and Charlie first--is it possible that he thought they needed more help with the Latin dance than Tessa and Scott, who had just done quite a good Latin FD, did?

kris9918

Did my icon give it away? I understand what you're saying though, and there are always a number of variables at play when it comes to success on the ice. And I certainly don't think Marina and Igor are perfect. But I do believe they've created a system that works for themselves and their skaters. I also think there are plenty of other good ice dancing coaches out there right now (I particularly like what Camerlengo has done with Weaver and Poje and I'm interested to see what he'll do with Pechalat and Bourzat), but I'd also be interested to know if more up and coming coaches are adopting a similar set-up to Marina and Igor's on account of their successes.

I should have been clearer about what I meant by equal opportunities, my fault. I was referring more to ice time and the time spent working on programs with coaches, which according to their skaters, Marina and Igor have down to a science for each team. And while I don't think CoP has totally eliminated the political aspect of the sport, I do think it's shifted the focus further toward the combination of technical ability and dance on the ice, at least more so than some people assume it has (though I know you and I have disagreed about aspects of that in the past. ) I also think another core of our disagreement might lay in the importance of any tension between the top teams. My guess is that if it's there (and I agree that it's human nature for some kind of tension to exist), it exists as a positive. In other words, it drives the teams to improve on their weaknesses, rather than causing them to wonder if their biggest rivals got the better deal that particular day/week/entire season.

canadablue

hey gals, haven't gone anywhere, just went back to lurker status for a bit

Kurt Browning's website has the new NBC ice show schedule up - I'm so dissapointed that there isn't a Shall We Dance on Ice, or a show in Canada, two traditions I thought might become annual events - I mean if they can make the weird skatenastics hybrid a yearly thing....
The Kurt Files - 2011-2012 Season Events
anyways, it would be cool if TS did the Beatles tribute one with IWTHYH, they often add more performers closer to the date
eta: although they couldn't skate actually with the tribute band, the tempo is so much faster....

as always, thanks for all the updates and pics and etc everyone posts (and the great discussions)

fsfan1

Untill some point. Did you remeber, what happened with B-A, when they felt there young team-mates will beat them? Tanith had mistakes all time before they went to Linichuk. For someone this pressure inside traning camp didnt bring nothing good.
And this could be another side - if one team lost to anothe 1 time they could stop compete, because they stop belive they could be on top again.
And this situation with all this year splits at this camp, situation with Silvershtein in the past show that situation at this camp isnt perfect.

And V-M didnt have a lot off out-side choreo if you look at there FD. Igor understand D-W could dance, like V-M and did all for D-W victory. The next step - they will give worst musc ever for Shibs and V-M?

Sad, they didnt have "Shall we dance" this season. But after all this teams splits.....
I think if T-S will skate in this show, this will mean they will not skate at SC/ But they are not in the cast - so i have a hope
Happy for Kerrs - look, like they have busy show life ow

Thief Of Love

Hacky and Anne! Awesome to see you guys again.

That was my thinking on the topic...

In addition to the fact that Elena's area of expertise as a dancer is fairly specific, and it's possible that the direction Igor (and Marina) wish to take Meryl and Charlie's SD is fundamentally different from the direction the other teams will be taking (say M/C might be going with Rhythm rather than Latin, if we're going to look at this as ballroom on ice), so that she spent more time on actual choreo for Meryl and Charlie and perhaps more on general expression and basic movement with Tessa and Scott and the Shibs.

kris9918

I'm not saying it works for every team. It clearly ended up not working for Tanith and Ben in the long run. But that doesn't mean it isn't working for Meryl/Charlie and Tessa/Scott, and/or won't continue to do so.