*Ice Princess*

The Morning Show Part 1


The Morning Show Part 2



CP24 Interview

kairetwinslovest&S

Wow! I haven't posted in here in a while. I have peaked in from time to time and I'm always glad to see your posts. Great job keeping up the site guys! So much has gone on in the last few seasons. It's been a heck of a ride as a Scott and Tessa fan! So proud of them!

kris9918

It was a screw job.

Historically, ice dance has been rife with corruption in the form of vote-swapping, bribery, various kinds of payoffs, etc. So, it's not as though there's no precedent for what happened, as despicable as that precedent is. But, as it is designed, the "new" system assesses skating quite well. When a fair assessment is allowed to happen, that is.

Tessa and Scott are a team that grows programs fastidiously over the course of a season so they won't peak until the end. That's good, that's how it's supposed to work. That's why the Olympics or Worlds isn't until the end of a season instead of the beginning or in the middle. Their programs were exceptional, gold medal-worthy vehicles. From the beginning, their SD was lights out. I think it was one of the most brilliant programs they (and their coaches) have ever conceived/created. Everything from the music selection (perfect) to the choreography (gorgeous and wickedly difficult), to the characterizations (watch their midline step sequence from any competition. They're putting on a clinic of technical precision in the footwork and are also grooving within the rhythmic beats and playing with each other out there. IN A MIDLINE STEP SEQUENCE). Their FD was another gorgeous yet insanely difficult vehicle that needed to really develop and grow over the course of the season. It did. From the very first time they skated it, the brilliance and difficulty of the program was there - the power and speed it took to skate it…I don't know if enough people understand what they were looking at out there (actually, I think they do understand it just fine). All of it - both programs, were well constructed within CoP regulations, yet also pushed its boundaries (like always).

Whether you think Meryl and Charlie are very good, just average, or awful - doesn't matter. At GPF, Tessa and Scott were the better team on the ice. They had the superior performances, skating, and programs. Yet, they came in second. As a fan of their skating, and as a fan of GREAT skating in general, that was a tough outcome to swallow then, and it's tough to swallow now. BUT, it was only December. The Olympics were still two months away, and everyone knew they'd continue to grow their programs.

The MOST frustrating thing about the Olympics…hell, the most unconscionable thing - is that Tessa and Scott went to Sochi and accomplished something only one other team in ice dance has ever done: they earned a second gold medal. They grew their programs well, peaked at the right time, and threw down two stellar performances. In both segments of the competition, they were superior to every other team. Their footwork was cleaner, their edges were deeper, their curves in the ice were bigger (as was their ice coverage), their characterizations were sharper, etc., etc. They were ready, had the gold medal-worthy programs, skated them superbly, and bested everyone else in the field. On two consecutive nights, they skated out to the center of Olympic ice and GOT IT DONE.

And they were placed on the second tier of the podium.

bogtree

The free dance was certainly difficult but it didn't "work" for a lot of people, including myself. Not that the program they chose would have changed the final results, but it may have gotten them more support from the public and outrage at their scores. Most people-Canadians- I talked to thought D/W were clearly better in the FD and much preferred Mahler. Plus I don't know of any fans who have Seasons as their favourite FD, or even top 3. Maybe T/S love it, but the Olympics is not the time to do something that only appeals to a very small audience (a Russian journalist actually asked Marina why they chose a FD so little geared towards the public, saying it was a program for ice dance connoisseurs). It's the main opportunity, every four years, to bring in new fans, to get them invested in your skating. As much as I didn't like the Mahler choreo, it helped them connect with the public in a major way, Seasons didn't do that.

I was hoping a fantastic skate would make me appreciate the program but no, it just made me annoyed to see a great performance wasted on such a mess (IMO, obviously). At least the SD was a real gem, I was worried when they brought Jean-Marc in but the result was terrific, even with the music cuts. You'd think the judges could at least have let them win that portion of the comp, but no.

Do any of you think V/M will come back to competition? I think there's a decent chance they might. I'd love to see competitive programs from different choreographers.

kris9918

I could line up ten people, who range from being almost entirely unfamiliar with ice dance to some who follow it regularly, who will all tell you Seasons was far superior to D/W's FD. Point being, to say that the program did not appeal to a large audience is an entirely subjective statement. We simply cannot know how many people it appealed to or why, and it doesn't matter anyway. Ice dance isn't a beauty pageant.

Wow. What an absolutely moronic question from that Russian journalist. God forbid Tessa, Scott, and Marina create an exceptionally difficult program that so perfectly adheres to CoP standards when what they really should have created was something intended to please audiences whose tastes (and their outright definitions of what ice dance even is) run the gamut. Yeah, that's an intelligent plan. A program for ice dance connoisseurs? Adhering to the sport's standards of pure skating and pushing it forward is somehow tantamount to acting uppity? Mother of all that is good, how $#@!ing insulting. If I was Marina, I'd have had to hold myself back from telling that journalist to go $#@! herself/himself for that comment.

No, the primary goal is to win a gold medal and push the sport in the process. They constructed programs that, as per CoP, were geared toward that goal. To assume that D/W's type of programs are the only kind that appeal to potentially "new" audiences is incorrect. Tessa and Scott's Olympic programs likely brought in plenty of new fans and got them invested in their skating.

Says you.

CarrieAnne

+1.

One of the biggest problem with this "sport" is that most everyone involved in it assumes the general public is nothing but a bunch of boorish idiots. All that was needed was to have some simple commentary explaining how V/M's Seasons did a much better job of fulfilling CoP than D/W's nonsense. Of course, this is not allowed by the ISU because then it wouldn't be so easy to cheat.

fishyfin1

I'd have to agree with Kris. My social media platforms were full of comments after the ice dance talking about how beautiful Seasons was and preferred over D/W. To the lay person who doesn't know a lot about skating, Seasons was able to draw people in and made them forget what they were watching, because it was so beautifully performed.

Again its a subjective thing to say, and I really doubt that a different program would have garnered more support. It boils down to 1) people not knowing enough to formulate a better argument other than "Tessa and Scott were robbed" 2) it's figure skating. We've spent over a year caring, and despite that, it's had no impact.

Meyers

VM have been on a number of morning shows lately and I've forgotten to watch every single one. Night owl-ness is not helpful here. Glad that they're available online, LOL.

However, apparently there will be an evening appearance... which I will miss.

etalk ‏@etalkCTV 26m
.@dsoltendieck and @Tessa_virtue & Scott hit up @yogurtys in Toronto! Watch for it Tuesday! #etalk #WeAreWinter pic.twitter.com/j01dS12CTe

***

I was randomly thinking of VM's backflip entry to their Carmen lift the other night. They've said in the past they perfect a lift off the ice first, then transfer it to the ice. That sounds reasonable. But as I imagined this lift, all I could think was, 'what kind of ninja is Tessa that they could do that lift off ice, without the momentum behind it?' Go ahead, think about it.

***

All the discussion of the packaging of VM's FD reminds me of 2012 and Funny Face. All season long, it felt like I kept reading that DW were going to be unbeatable with their amazing DF. And even when VM won at 4CC, I think that people were kind of dismissing it as the altitude did DW in -- and it probably didn't help -- but there still seemed to be the expectation (perhaps in other areas, because I do remember feeling pretty hopeful after 4CC) that DW would come back and win Worlds. Instead, VM won both segments. And then there was the general outcry that DW waz robbed -- not by anyone supporting it with skating facts, but with feelings and with 'standing ovation' comments. Tessa was unfotunately, publicly hard on themselves by admitting it wasn't their best skate, which was an honest and admirable thought, because she was basically saying they worked for it, that backfired and had even the Canadian media pouncing on a passing comment and questioning the results. But then, and now, no one except VM fans actually look at the skating and say, VM deserved to win, even with it not being their best skate, and questioning just how was DF a masterpiece? Because really, DF was a masterpiece -- of choreography designed to sweep the viewer away. I saw it live. I enjoyed myself a lot watching it. It was easy to be caught up in the music, in the highlights, and I felt that the light, joyous feeling that DW gave it was well suited to them. (This was at GPF, where I knew VM wouldn't win overall because of the SD fall, but I was sorry to see they didn't win the FD, but I don't recall actually being upset by it at the time.) But when I look back at DF, and especially if I ignore the upper body and pay attention to the blades, or listen to it without the music, I can see all the things that are being pointed out about it now and see better, how the same types of things are being done in other DW programs, and question how VM ever lose to them.

Uh, where was I going with what is turning out to be a ramble? Oh, right. Packaging is a funny thing in skating. I go back and forth on it, and I think that I come to this conclusion. If I like a program, that's the bonus. It means I go back and I watch it with enjoyment. But it is incredibly subjective. I know someone who could barely stand FF because of the music, and only liked it better when I muted it; then when she saw it live, was impressed with how she didn't notice the music because of the excitement of watching the skating in person. Or, for a completely different example, I saw Javier skate live at SC a number of years ago, and came home raving about his presence on the ice and the entertainment of his program; but then I saw him on TV in the same performance, and it felt a little flat. Sometimes, live vs recorded can be as subjective for the package as the package itself.

But I'm just a fan. I've said that before, and as a fan, I have the 'right' to choose to look at a program for it's entertainment value, or to study it as a skating program. If I want to pout about a program winning or losing, without paying attention to the skating, so be it. But I also have to admit it's not an informed opinion.

I hold the judges to a higher standard. COP is supposed to take out the majority of the subjective. It's why people complain that programs all 'look the same' since it's inception. It breaks down most of the skating to specifics and numbers. (Though there is the occasional lapse, like suggesting that GOE can include lift poses being pleasing to the eye.) Judges have been involved in the sport, and should know more about what good skating is than me. Judges get some training, and should know more than me. They should be able to, and I think much of the time, they are capable of ignoring the package, and look at the skating. Otherwise, would FF have won? According to the internet, and apparently the media, the answer is no. We would have seen DF win on the basis of audience reaction (and for that matter, Latin win over Tango the previous year).

Obviously, I think judges are capable of being swayed by audience reaction -- I hold them to a higher standard, but I know they're human. And obviously, I think there are "other factors" that have come heavily into play, especially in ice dance, recently (again).

But VM have never been "audience-friendly package pickers", LOL. They pick music *they* like, for whatever reason, or at least music they feel they can rehearse to for 9 months without hating it. And I think they feel that way because they know their skating is the best in the world, and that they don't "need" to have something to falsely sway an audience or a judge to their side. Just like, they don't feel they need to dumb down their programs with their transitions or elements just so they can win -- they'd rather push the sport and show what they're capable of, even if no one else is. And in the end, I'm on their side for that one. I haven't always been a fan of what music they choose, and yet every single season, they win me over because their skating is so amazing. So, do I love Seasons for the music? Nope. Do I love it for every single element? Nope. But I do love Seasons for the way that they skated it. And the way they skated it is the reason they deserved to win with it. Not because of how I felt, or didn't feel, watching it.

Sorry, that turned out to be a lot more 'train of thought' than I was expecting.

binker

Tru dat^^^ i dont get the low GOE on their midline. it was fantastic better than meryl and charlie's. weeks later im still by the scores and im glad that everyone else on social media knew they were robbed, as fishyfin1 mentioned. the people who are trying to dismiss the terrible judging by saying d/w deserved to win bc their twizzles were synchronous and vm got a lvl 3 on their finnstep are missing the big picture. the truth is white was shaky on the straighline, curve, choreo how that got high GOE is mindboggling. not to mention how sloppy their step sequences were. their lines never matched and their edges were shallower than VM's. in addition they were really unsynchronous in one of the twizzles after their circular step (i think it was circular but i dont have the protocols with me) it looked like they stopped/ wasn't smooth - and what i mean by that is that it didnt have the same 'flow' as tessa and scott's step sequences. also i feel since the finnstep is a relatively new, the tech panel could have taken advantage of it RE: key points. all season they have punished v/m when they missed key points but were lenient on d/w when they missed key points for example: GPF. also if d/w were able to set a WR with missing a level on the YP last season then why can't v/m do the same? i think its obvious that there are problems with the SD format. in addition it rly looked dw made the same mistake in one of the finnstep keypoints that vm made at nats. d/w winning the OGM was like jennifer lawrence winning a golden globe over lupita and sally hawkins (sry jlaw fans!) i hope in the future dw will be remembered as one of the most undeserving OGM

its really rude to dismiss petri and sussanna's opinions because they were 6.0 skaters and are not on the tech panel. its their dance that they helped develop for compulsories and if i remember correctly, they also helped a couple of dance teams with their SDs as well. they probably know more about it than the tech panel does. if they say something fishy is going on something probably is. and with the media attention that petri got with that tweet and based on his tweet afterwards its obvious that he does not want to be involved in the drama.

i think no matter how terribly choreographed seasons was tessa and scott still were able to bring in new fans and thats because they skated the lights out of their fd and skated with their soul. and in the process they gained lots of new fans.

i dont know if this was mentioned here earlier but its obvious that the general public perfer v/m over d/w. if they didn't why were vm trending higher than dw on the day dw won gold?

aabf

I love The Seasons, and yes I was underwhelmed the first time I watched it on that first meet they did plenty of months ago, but honestly, that's how I've always felt about their free programs the first time I watch them (including Mahler) - The only FD I was truly amazed by the first time I watched it was Umbrellas, all the others grew on me with time, they grew on me as the programs grew themselves, and The Seasons was not an exception.

It's a very clean and extreamly difficult program with beautiful movement, flow and range; and what I specially like about it, is that literally no other team in the entire world could have pulled it off like that. No one else.

Really, think about it... And I think the reason of that is that no other team out there is as clean, and has that much difficulty with beautiful movement, flow and range. The skaters made the program. They made it better than it was, and they accomplished their goal, because that program became them. It really has Virtue and Moir written all over it. The chemistry, the simplicity, the elegance, the speed, the difficulty, the tenderness, the details...

Also, their olympic individual performance of Seasons was literally their best ever. (In my opinion it would have been absolutely p e r f e c t if they had kept the original first lift with Scott lifting his foot in sync with Tessa, but I understand why they changed it)

I don't know where i'm going with this, except that they should be proud of what they accomplished, regardless of results. I honestly, genuinely believe that they earned the gold medal and are THE best ice dancers, period.

They were the best team in the individual olympic SD and they were the best team in the individual olympic FD.

It has been 4 years and they maintained their level. An olympic champion level, held their title with class, poise, hell, they are BETTER skaters and dancers now than they were 4 years ago. They are.

So congratulations Tessa and Scott, 'cause even though every single odd was stacked against them, they still won. And most of us know it, some will realize it with time, some won't, but they never backed down and always kept their integrity and love for their sport.

This is a team that changed the game. This is a team that has already gone down in history as true legends of Ice Dance, and shall be remembered and appreciated forever. And we are lucky to have been a part of it.

Thank you Tessa Virtue & Scott Moir! What a legacy they've danced... together, cheek to cheek...

binker

^^ i hope you are right

can anyone even explain why d/w deserved to win gold over v/m?? without saying "they worked so haaaaaard" (every elite skater works hard), "they were undefeated for 2 years" (undefeated unjustly), and "they had the better fd" (if thats true than the medal should be going to marnia and that "persian" dancer they worked with)

i can easily explain why v/m deserved gold in vancouver: they outskated both d/w and d/s

Shayii

I hated Seasons at the beginning of the season and hated Marina for giving them such a program--I honestly felt there was nothing special about it choreo wise. Then I saw it live and loved it to pieces. When I got home and saw the videos I was surprised that it lost the impact I had felt at Nats. By Olympics I pretty much didn't like it again. I still regret that Seasons was their final FD. I wish they had done something more impactful. But I realize this was how I felt and some people obviously loved Seasons.

kris9918

I have a question for you both, since all season long you've made claims the choreography of the Seasons FD was "nothing special" or "terrible." I'm not trying to pick on you, I promise. But you've been the most vocal and that's why I'm asking. I'm wondering, according to CoP regulations (which is what the programs are intended to be scored within), what was subpar about the choreography? Not how it made you feel or react, but insofar as the actual rules for composition are concerned? Also, if you wish Tessa/Scott and Marina (because it's the three of them who "give them" a program, not just their coach) had made a "more impactful" program, per CoP regulations, what would that look like?

Shayii

I don't know. I think my criticisms is the way I felt watching it. I guess that's not really fair since that is so subjective. Besides watching it live I just didn't feel it was special. Personally it was too much in the vein of Mahler for me. I'm just talking choreography BTW. This season, the Spanish team's FD made me feel something and I also really liked G/P's FD. But how a program makes you feel is not what is judged so I guess my point is moot. Anyways I haven't been really vocal about not liking Seasons. This is actually my first time coming out and saying I hated it at the beginning, but I have said that I wished they had done something that made people sit up and take notice like Carmen.

TygerTyger711

Charlie Moir is on my train to Toronto right now! I'll keep an eye on who he's meeting at Union station. Hoping it'll be Scott.