Tati_SwanJones

My dear friend Mary you're so brave to be able to see that episode again.

then again some of the stuff I sort of forgot if Kate really wanted to say with Jack she could had, I mean just tell Sawyer to get Claire and get her off the island to be with her son, sort like her asking him a promise to take care of Claire, like she did with Clem. anyway
she didn't she left with Clare and Sawyer, something tell me her priory wasn't to be with Jack.

and I'm biased but they got together off the island, Sawyer was more than over Juliet the moment he was in that cage and saw kate's dress, that scene my goodness and Kate always loved him and now they can actually be together, there's no a single reason for them not to.

now the church scene: Why in the name of God was Sayid with Shannon instead Nadia who was the woman he married and loved for years and years.
Desmond/Penny, Desmond probably went off the island to be back with Penny and Charlie, of course I don't think Jack ever found out Desmond had a child.
Sun/Jin: their daughter wasn't in the picture either. so that mean when that little girl grew up and died wasn't with her parents either.

excuse me but

mary ksand

We all deserve a for going through this horror once.

Good point about the dress. Sawyer was clearly all about Kate again - had it been differently, we wouldn't have gotten this scene at all. Sawyer settled for Juliet when he thought he lost Kate forever, but it doesn't mean he could stop loving Kate. His love for Kate survived the separation, it survived through time. His love for Juliet couldn't even survive Kate's come back. It was so clear who was the woman of Sawyer's life.

Tati_SwanJones

even that he was with Juliet, he was still hoping for Kate to come back, and he said why he was with Juliet, he didn't want to be alone.

even he was with Juliet, he saw Kate and all the feelings came back

sorry but this isn't the face of a man who is over some girl he loved in the past.

mary ksand

Exactly, he said it was about not being alone. Kate was always the woman of Sawyer's life and her absense couldn't change it. He knew, deep inside, how much she loved him and it kept him on hoping. And even if he had never seen her again, Juliet would have never replaced Kate in his heart.

Tati_SwanJones

and he was lying to himself when he was he was over her.

shabbytiger79

Well done for re watching!! Sorry for this long thought that will follow. It may just be fan wank but I prefer it to the alternative which makes my toes curl.

I don't think on reflection, that the ending is about eternity or endgame or anything like that.

I believe it is about letting go in order to move on from life, and in order to do that, they must let go of what is keeping them tethered to the after life, which I think is their regrets, most evident in Jacks' vision of purgatory I think.

This also explains to me why certain people needed to do certain things to move on.

Like Locke standing to go into the church, was letting go of his pain and regret and bitterness that had marred his life post accident and which the Island bought him out of and then back to on occasion. The wheelchair was a source of all this for him.

He had to let that go to move on, it was an anchor he wasn't even aware of.

Kate to me symbolises a source of regret for Jack because he allowed his pain and issues to ruin what they may have had. seeing her okay and happy to see him frees him of this weight and allows him to move on.

Juliet for Sawyer is a given. He felt responsible for her death and regardless of love, this would be a huge source of pain to let go-like wise her happy and forgiving gave him that sense he could move on.

I also think this is why Claire and Charlie have the baby as it was not being around to raise the baby with Claire that was Charlie's regret despite dying for the right reasons.

Jin and Sun forgive each other but we knew that anyway, but still, how awful as it that he died for her and couldn't save her and for her that he died because of her? Still a huge what if to let go of.

I think that theme plays better for me than a happy ever after scenario because otherwise the implication that we get eternity to try it all over again or whatever devalues the struggles in life from my view. I think being eased into whats next by those whom you wish you had been better for, and having their forgiveness and thus forgiving yourself makes better sense and also sends a better message.

You need to be at peace with your choices and actions in order to say goodbye and to let go of the false construct of a purgatory (in which they didn't move on until confronted with the reality of what had happened) and allow yourself to let go of the what ifs before moving on.


Kate/Sawyer/Claire/Hurley*/Ben*/Richard/Desmond(He may have got off the island but I admit we don't know) all may as well have died on the island with Jack if that was the case. If you see what I mean. Life does matter. And accepting and forgiving yourself for the things that happen along the way should be something we can all do in order to have lived completely.The Island was a source of many of their regrets and the idea that they all meet up and make peace with what happened on the Island makes me happy actually. It doesn't negate anything that happened off it.


* I know they did stay on the Island but lived a long time after Jack so count them

I personally think Desmond did not make it home, but that's just me.

Sorry for rambles.

Tati_SwanJones

shabbytiger79

Sorry for my essay lol.

mary ksand

You don't have to say sorry, it was great. I never really thought of it that way and now I think had writers done a proper job with explaining all their mysteries, had they written last season better to avoid so many plot holes and had they refused of coming up with the whole "soulmates in afterlife" concept which led us to ridiculousness of Shannon being Sayid's soulmate and not a woman whom he loved for his whole life (Nadya) this final could have actually been interesting and meaningfull

IceKat055

The only way the finale could have been interesting & meaningful was if they'd stuck with the original plan, and made the sideways be a tangent universe, created by Jack and Juliet exploding the bomb. When Lindelof brattishly decided "no No NO!, the fans can't figure it out this early, my geniusness is too genius! We have to pull a GOTCHA! on them!!!" and turned it into dead!Jack's wet dream, the show's failure was complete.

Sawyer and Kate were spared that failure. WHEW!

mary ksand

That's how a ot lof modern writers work on their ~flawless shows nowdays And ia with everything The sideways being alternative reality scenario could have really worked so well, it could have given characters redemption they where searching for and fixed things between them giving them all a second chance.

IceKat055

It would have been a heartbreaking revelation. Jack would slowly start remembering things from the Island and discover that the sideways reality wasn't real, the universe needed to be course-corrected. He'd have to sacrifice his son David in order to set things right. Charlie, Shannon, Boone, Locke, Juliet, Sun, Jin, Sayid - - they'd all have to go back to being dead in the "correct" reality. It would have been some good drama.

Instead of the lazy, trite LULZ we ended up with.

mary ksand

It could have been sad, tragic, heartbreaking and yet amazingly well written, smart and beautiful. It would have given all the characters a growth and a second chance and a REAL resolution, a real redemption. It would have also made Jack into a REAL leader who would have had to do what's right no matter how painfull it would have been. Yes, THAT kind of ending would have been amazing.

But that kind of ending would have actually made SENSE and we all know that modern television shows don't really go for something that makes sense, they go for cheap and contrived "gotcha!" moments believing that it's curprizing and creative. Damon Lindeloff's writing is one of the greatest examples.

shabbytiger79

Well it was Sayid and Shannon being together that makes me just laugh off the whole soul mate theory to be perfectly honest.

I simply refuse to believe it.

I prefer my ushering across theory.

It could have been hugely meaningful and I know many who watched seemed to think it was but it just wasn't to me.

It was a what the hell do we do with all this stuff we created and a we didn't want to get nailed with by viewers too smart for their own good ending.

The end was everybody died. At some point. The end. Whoop. We know that!!!

Oh man it riled me up, and my thoughts had just about softened the blow but if I focus on what the writers did too much it will blow my head off with wtf rage.

Tati_SwanJones

Oh no no it wasn't for your essay it was because the thread was empty I was looking for people