ScarletCourt

It's also dawn, possibly signifying the dawn of a new era.

Beebbop

Fingers crossed for a much happier series. Really going to miss Sybil though, not too bothered about Matthew but Sybil was and still is a big loss

ScarletCourt

Yes, hard to get sadder than two major deaths in a span of a series.

ScarletCourt

In AU land, Sybil and Tom will live a long and fulfilling life.

ScarletCourt

Anyone else really dislike where Tom's character has gone since Sybil died?

Beebbop

I like having him on the show because he is my favourite character.

Saying that, realistically I do not think he would have stuck around at DA. If JF thinks of a way he can utilize Tom to ensure that his beliefs still come across that would be good.

ScarletCourt

This is the problem. I can't imagine Tom willing to stay at Downton for anyone other than Sybil and Sybil wanted out. Him sticking around makes him out to be the "fool" he's calling himself because he's not being true to himself. Sybil wanted to leave. If for no other reason, he should leave because of that. There's no reason why he couldn't have come back for say the party with little Sybil, but living the opulent lifestyle just isn't him.

Also despite all the reasons why the show tells us that he can't leave, there is nothing keeping him there other than JF wanting him on the screen all the time. All the "chains" and "cages" are false. He already has an option with his brother in Liverpool. Kicking tenants out of their farms for the good of Downton is not the Tom that used to be in S1 or even up to 3x04.

alertthecorgis

Well, Scarlet and I are going to try to have a discussion here. I cannot speak for her, but I used to love coming here and discussing things with you all.
We will, I am sure, go OT and I hope all will be forgiven because I am watching to see what Fellowes does with all this, However, at the end of all, Sybil and Tom live happily ever after in Ireland in my version of the story. He does not go through all this heartache and this personality transplant and Sybbie is Saoirse (but you can do what you like ).


OT, so read no further, if Fellowes version of Season 4 is repugnant to you.

Have not seen all of it, but 4.3 and all but first 5 or so minutes of 4.4. Very sad to hear Tom tell the "manipulative witch" not to speak Sybil name. As written by Fellowes, I do so love Mrs. Hughes and apparently she is the one Tom trusts the most to accept what he did (did he really remember it...I am confused on that as missed that conversation), I am absolutely terrified that, despite the fact that Edna "isn't" pregnant, she will return in the CS pregnant and expecting Tom to marry her. Then long summer to stew over whether he will or not. What fun!

Mary and Tom are good together...as friends!!!!! She tried to give him an opportunity to confide in her, but he took her advice instead. Good that they are working together on the estate. Don't get me wrong. I still hate that estate manager business as written...why not have him stay to repay Matthew's kindness. or to help Mary, or to give stability to Sybbie, but not because he has nothing else to do. I would really have liked Michael and Edith to introduce him to the literary set, but it doesn't look like Fellowes will do that. Shocker..he is not writing the story as I would want.

Why is she still watching, you may be asking. I still do like some of the characters and want to see where Fellowes takes them. I am also in contention for "sap of the century" award and can't but hope Tom will return to some semblance of his old self at some point in time. If not, it really doesn't matter because I am changing most of the story in my head after 3.3. (Hate that arson thing, too. Way too stupid for Tom to do such a thing.)

Way too long a post. Back later to see whether I should return or not...here.

ScarletCourt

Let's give this a shot, my friend!

Tom and Mary are getting closer than anyone else as far as I can tell. Right now they're sort of friends, but I could see this going more romantic as the season progresses. The proposal from AG was rather off and creepy.

I did like that Tom confided in Mrs. Hughes but I liked less that Mrs. Hughes searched through Edna's things not to mention strip searching her. I half expected that Mrs. Hughes found some condoms or "French letters" as they used to be called.

I have to say that I prefer your view of why Tom stayed. It makes way more sense than it does today, but like you said, Tom seems to have forgotten that he wrote once.

I'm watching because I have a need to watch it on a Sunday afternoon in the fall.

alertthecorgis

Let's talk. Am still missing our (and Tom's) Sybil, but Fellowes' story goes on.


OT:God forbid Mary and Tom as a couple...he would never get out of DA. That is what I a hoping he will do by the end of the show. I am also hoping that is at the end of next year. I'm thinking Michelle may want out and Maggie, too. I can actually see Fellowes killing the latter off, even though he said he wouldn't. But he'd have the devil of a time carrying on without Mary.
As for Mrs. Hughes...I couldn't believe they mentioned Maria Stopes!!!! Another real person!!! Personally, I was so relieved that, at least for the present, Tom was saved from Edna's clutches, I didn't really care how she did it. Fighting fire with fire, so to speak. I really hate Edna.

Did AG really think Mary would agree to that proposal???? They better do better than that for Mary. It took me by surprise that the proposal would come so early. Thought they'd drag that SL out much longer.

The Bates...I am interested in this storyline. Robert is more human with Bates than almost anyone else.
Isobel and Violet are also of interest to me. PW is doing a great job as Isobel in the scenes I have seen. I was/am hoping to see more of her with Tom, too.

ScarletCourt

Frankly, I don't see Tom going anywhere anytime soon. He might consider it but since we know that



Certainly based on next week's blurb, it seems like he might consider it.

Yes, I've read more than one article where Maggie doesn't want to stay forever and she expects to be killed off.

What kills me is that The Chronicles of Downton Abbey mentioned Maria Stopes in the S/T section last year. I cannot forgive how they led me astray.

I hate Edna, too. With a passion. Will never understand why JF chose to bring her back. Somehow, I don't think Tom will get away so easily.

So do you think that Tom will side with Mary about that tenant next week?

alertthecorgis

I thought I remember JF saying he wouldn'r do that. For what that's worth

I hate to think it, but I think you are right about Edna. More's the pity. He better never even consider marrying her!!!! From an angel to a witch is too much.

I hate to think it, but I think he will. Anything to save DA.

I have to get to bed or I'll be nasty with the kiddos tomorrow. See you later???

ScarletCourt

Definitely! Good night!

alertthecorgis

I hope you will be able to get here, Scarlet. It took me foooorever to get to ITV, so I missed the first half hour and had to go back and watch it later. I also watched the first minutes of last week's episode and did not remember them playing S/T theme music when Tom said he was full of/had nothing but regret. Made me very sad.
OT: This week's episode...so Tom feels can never go back to Ireland. Well, boo and hiss to that. Another piece of his personality (I'll always be an Irish mick in my heart...didn't JF have him say that?!?!?!?) amputated. You've changed me...really????????????
Tom and socialism...well, at least he remembers something about his former self.

Loved the part with Sybbie (uh-oh was too adorable for words)...that's the Tom part that, for now, keeps me going. I think I'd like seeing Tom going to live with Isobel.. They both say the same things about not belonging, so maybe they belong together. Isobel got Sybil started in the nursing field and Tom could see her as a good influence on Sybbie, too. But that's probably to much to ask. JF will probably show her raised as a daughter of the house because she'd be better off that way than the daughter of an uppity chauffeur!

Loved the Mrs. Patmore's corset line. And I saw a commercial for Frigidaire tonight and the superimposed timeline showed the first refrigerator in 1918.

Bates is a little scary sometimes, isn't he? But that storyline is interesting.

I'd love to see Alfred make it as a chef. And Daisy get a real boyfriend.

ScarletCourt

I thought it interesting that they brought out Tom's socialism finally, but found it thick and heavy, almost put there like a trowel and where did this wish to move to America come from? Glad to hear he has family there, but this is sort of out of the blue.

Lovely to see that the children are live and well, though still can't fathom for the life of me how little Sybil came to know the word hurricane. She's less than two and living in Yorkshire. Not like hurricanes are a common occurrence for anyone to mention frequently enough for an under two to figure out that world. Hard enough for three and older to say the word sometimes.

Not happy that Anna was most worried about Bates's reaction to the rape and not the rape itself.

I did like seeing Mary and Tom going about the estate like the way Matthew and Tom used to do.

What did you think?

ETA (since you edited your post)
Thought it was interesting that Alfred got a chance with everyone's help about leaving DA. Remember what it was like when Gwen wanted to leave.

Not sure what's up with Baxter. It's like she's suddenly there and helping Thomas like she had been there all along.

Yes, Tom's Irishness is now just an accent apparently.