IceKat055

► No bashing real life people or other shippers
► No baiting and no defending
► Occasionally mentioning your dislike for a character or show/movie/book is okay, but keep the main discussion of this thread to disliking couple

mary ksand

TFTNT! the title. Guess what it reminds me of? Yep, exactly this:

Jack/Kate
Sawyer/Juliet
Cook/Effy

Psychically Linked ღ

Taken from the old thread:

Sam/Freddie (iCarly) Oh Dan you utterly fail at writing romance so why even try? This ship just screams "wont last". Here you have two people who completely and utterly hate each other and then out of nowhere the girl is suddenly in love with him? I'm sorry but I just dont buy it. There has been NO build up at all to romance. Sure there has been for FRIENDSHIP, but I dont see how two people who hate each other so much like Sam and Freddie do, can go from that to being in love and kissing all the time. And the description of their relationship just makes me laugh "Sam and Freddie are officially together and putting Carly in the middle of all their fights." ALL THEIR FIGHTS. How does that end well? Poor Carly, I'd tell them to just break up and get it over with.

Sam Puckett/Life This girl is nothing more than a bully. I used to like her back in season 1, I was like "Oh hey here's a girl who isnt into all that girly stuff, and doesnt take crap from anyone." But then she basically stayed the same as she did in season 1, which at 13 was cute and funny, but at 17/18 is horrible and mean. I dont get why Carly and Freddie just havent left Sam behind. She doesnt put any work into iCarly, its always been said that Carly does most of the work, she mocks what Freddie contributes, doesnt appreciate him, belittles him in front of the entire webshow.......and she steals money and eats her best friend out of house and home. Its obvious this girl doesnt care about anyone but herself.

dreamywriter19

Thanks for the new thread From the previous one:

Peyton Sawyer/Life. I adored her S1-3, but S4 Peyton and her Saint Damsel in Distress act got old. S5 made me loath her character and S6 made her one of the biggest Mary Sue-ish characters I've ever seen. Ultimate proof:

Lucas: Who wouldn't fall in love with you, Peyton Sawyer?
Me: A man who wants a woman, not a scared and whiny little girl.

Lucas Scott/Life. I liked his character once, but he became such a self-absorbed idiot and a horrible friend that I couldn't stand him anymore. I kept wishing Fake!Derek would come back and kill him.

Brooke Davis/Life. We have a girl who actually grew throughout the series and what happens next? They turn her into a desperate housewife wannabe, to borrow from Tamara's line, and make her character out to be probably the most obnoxious bitch I've ever seen. And I'm counting Peyton in.

Brooke/Julian.
Lucas/Peyton.
Brooke/Chase.

Videl-Chan

Damon/Elena
Damon/Katherine
Effy/Freddie
Mini/Franky
Lucas/Peyton
Izzie/Alex

SaraSidleStokes

I so agree with you on both of these, Sam Puckett is one of my Least favorite tv characters right now and I agree I don't see how Carly or Sam can remain friends with her when she behaves in the manner that she does even her own Mother can't get along with her.

My OTFs

Will and Elizabeth
Will Turner/Life
Catherine Willows/Life
Wen and Sydney
Ted and Robin
Ted and Zoey
Barney and Nora

and the Worst of the Worst
Grissom and Sara

nothing-without-you

Izzie/Denny. I think they might be my most hated "couple". Not believable at all. And Ghost Denny/Izzie. Bleuch bleuch bleuch. Just no.

IceKat055

Kinda what I was going for, as it seems to be appropriate in multiple cases.

And in case there is any confusion, yes, it's a real word:

We have a saying in the States, "all jacked up", which means everything has gone to dog. "Kacked up" kinda means the same thing in Britain. And elsewhere.

Black_Betty

Oh man, kack is a real insult? That's.....beautiful, really. It's like even the cosmos know how much Jack/Kate suck.

Damon/Elena -

'I wasn't the favored child.' 'My father didn't love me as much as my brother.' 'The girl I loved loved my brother more.' 'My brother made me turn into a vampire.' 'My girlfriend, who was supposed to be a dried up piece of jerky in a cave, was actually alive and creepy-stalking my brother because she is a lying liar from Liarsburg.' Cry me a river, bro. There is a point when reasons become excuses. Let's say a century is the cut off point, okay? Since millions of people manage to push past violent childhoods of rape, beatings, degradation, genocide, war, slavery, etc., within a few decades and while those traumatic events never leave them they don't allow those things to rule them, and they don't use them as excuses to ruin the lives of others. People learn to recognize their behavioral patterns, triggers, etc., and control them and learn to form healthy adult relationships. And Damon does know his (like the back of his hand, I suspect) he just doesn't really care; he enjoys the control and the security that control provides. What's truly sad? He's at least 165 years old. And yet when we see him acting "good" he's exactly like he was when he was alive. Meaning he has not evolved even the tiniest little bit in over a century and a half! (We know that Elena is drastically different than she was just 6 months prior to the show beginning. She evolves so much faster than he does, and is so much more emotionally mature than he is.)

Am I being cold, uncompassionate? No. I pity Damon. I dislike Katherine for the way she treated him. I think what happened between him and Stefan was tragic, but not any one person's fault. (Which is not me saying Stefan is a saint; simply that if Damon was manipulated into feeding from that first girl and so can't be blamed then I find it hard to fault Stefan who, accidentally, was also in the grip of bloodlust. One tragedy created another.) Feeling sorry for someone doesn't mean you absolve them. "Damon's trying." Fine then, writers, but attempting to change isn't the same as having changed and it doesn't get a ****ing gold star. "I want to not be a murderer!" Uh.....that's very nice for you, Damon, and I hope that works out and all, but until then stay the hell away from me. "He wants to be hated!" Well then, he's doing a damn good job. Next? Damon is not a victim. Damon makes choices. Damon does crappy things because he can do crappy things and luckily enough for him there's always some reason just laying around that he can use to get himself off the hook. "Damon's feelings are intensified because he's a vampire." So were Rose's and she made it very clear in The Descent that ripping into people was not something she generally did. So are Caroline's and she's getting a freaking A+ in vampirism. So are Stefan's and he manages to control himself 99% of the time. So were Lexi's and I wouldn't have hesitated to sleep in the same room as her. It's not/wasn't easy for them; it was something they have/had to fight to control all the time. But they make/made the effort because you do not have the right to make your **** everyone else's.

Damon's relationships, all of them, are abusive and Damon is the abuser. Emotional manipulation? Check; people live in fear of Damon - hiding their weaknesses from him, worrying how he'll respond to changes - and altering their normal behavior to try to control his responses, which in turn makes them feel (to a degree) almost responsible for his actions (I should've done this differently, said it differently, gotten his permission first). Psychological/emotional abuse? Check; Damon particularly likes name-calling and badgering people for their perceived weaknesses. Physically abusive? Check; using women as blood bags, having sex with women after compelling them to not run away from him in fear (because he is a blood-sucking vampire, after all; this is their natural self-preservation instinct he's robbing them of) and to love him, snapping a young boy's neck, killing people out of sheer boredom or "emotional turmoil".

People say Elena doesn't have a self-preservation instinct; those people haven't looked close enough. In the beginning, Elena was flat-out opposed to Damon being around once she learned who and what he is. (And I don't mean being a vampire, I mean being a monster: when she saw how he treated poor Caroline.) But Elena had no say in it, did she? It's not like Elena could politely ask Damon to stop sneaking into her bedroom while she slept and touching her face like freaking Edward Cullen, or to not try to compel her to kiss him, or to just leave her alone; Damon is a 145 year old vampire who steamrolls everyone who attempts to assert their autonomy. So what did Elena do? What she does best: tried to riddle out his personality, his history (while making it very plain she did not want him around). Elena does this - she did it with Trevor and Rose, with Elijah, with Anna. She tries to understand their motivations and find a common link between that person and herself; with Trevor and Rose she played the sympathetic and ignorant kidnap victim once she realized assertiveness got her nowhere and reminded them too much of Katherine, with Elijah she ended up stressing the importance of her family and her word when she realized how important those things are to him, with Anna she tried the mother angle in the hotel room. Once she's found that link she uses it as the foundation of her relationship with that person. She builds from that, with positive actions (Elijah letting her go to Jenna) getting positive responses from her (her returning to him that night), negative actions (Damon snapping Jeremy's neck) getting negative responses ("You've lost me forever."). It's like voluntary Stockholm Syndrome designed to, for lack of a better word, domesticate the other person. "I can't get rid of this person and he/she won't leave. So how do I work this to make it non-threatening?" And while I hate the tolerance....she's a human girl. She ain't Buffy. Damon murdered her brother because she refused him. Supposedly, Damon loves Elena. And yet he rushed her baby brother - one of the few surviving relatives she had - toyed with him for a few seconds while she panicked and begged, then snapped his neck.




I understand perfectly: the tv series is based on novels about a love triangle, the show was pitched and sold as such, and now those two relationships - Stefan/Elena and Elena/Damon - are considered the backbone of the show and their supporters probably make up the bulk of the fanbase so the writers feel the need to do the triangle no matter what. The problem is: there is, as I understand, a long goddamn way to go between Book!Damon and Show!Damon. B!D was no saint but he didn't do most of the things credited to S!D. So the triangle on the show, imo, does not feel organic. It's inherited from another group of characters that have a different history. The writers went too far with Damon. I refuse to ****ing romanticize it: all the horrible things Damon has done do not make their love more Epic. They are not on some Great Journey. Damon is not her partner in the Great Dance of Life, for ****'s sake KW/JP! He is her brother's murderer. Her friend's rapist. She has to walk a mile of eggshells every day just in case he's been drinking or, I dunno, had a bad dream about Katherine that night or some other dumb thing that will set him off. So here's the deal, writers:

Either it turns out that: A) Elena went to Damon to take care of him out of loyalty to Stefan and to try and use whatever sway she might have to keep him calm (since she's the only person we know of who's taken care of a vampire dying of a werewolf bite), realized he was on the very brink of death and decided to act in a forgiving way because to do otherwise would bring neither of them peace and she wouldn't have to follow through on it since she was about to be free of him, or B) Elena actually is suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. I am not being sarcastic. Damon is a predator - on this show he is second only to Klaus in his willingness to kill others - and that whole stupid Lion and Lamb thing is best left to Twilight. There is nothing romantic or epic about the pairing. The only option is that Elena really has learned, as a means of survival, to identify with Damon.

I'M SUPPOSED TO WANT TO SEE THAT PLAY OUT? No, no, no, no, and no, also: GDIAF.

Pairing Damon with anyone or anything but a stake is wrong. But with Elena? It somehow manages to be worse than almost any potential pairing but perhaps Damon/Caroline and Damon/Andie. And I say perhaps because: he slept with her biological mother and then killed her. This is after having slept with her ancestor who looks exactly like her. He killed her biological father, he killed her brother. It's like he's been spinning this web around her and it's ****ing nauseating to watch.

And it's very sad that after less than a week (by show time) that we last saw him use and abuse Andie he's suddenly deemed "worthy" of being involved with Elena because he accidentally got bitten by a werewolf and was dying. Are the writers insane?! JP&KW need to make an excel file of all of Elena's potential suitors and make a Pro and Con column for all of them. Like:

Stefan: Boring.
Stalked her for a few months.
Gets self-righteous at times.
Was once a ripper.

Matt: Can get kinda ragey sometimes.
Can't handle Elena's life.

Elijah: Currently dead.

Damon: Murdered Elena's brother.
Raped Caroline.
Raped Andie.
Murdered Vicki.
Tried to force Elena to become a vampire.

And then explain exactly how Damon is a good choice, much less the best choice, for Elena! Especially since he's still doing this crap. He hasn't changed. He hasn't evolved. His crappy plan literally came back to bite him () and now suddenly: all's forgiven?

If Bonnie's still jonesin' to kill a vampire with her powers next season will someone please point her toward Damon and tie Elena up before you do? Thanks

dreamywriter19

This post always makes me cry tears of joy Damon/Elena and Damon/Life are some of my biggest OTFs ever

Black_Betty

Honestly, posting that always makes me feel better. Between page 10 and 20 of every CYD thread I can feel the rage starting to build back up Getting it all out at the beginning of every thread with a long-ass hate post is very cathartic This thread is genius.

collide into you

Bill/Sookie
Spencer/Wren
Aria/Ezra
Stefan/Elena
Elena/Elijah
Tyler/Caroline

Slayerette89

Tftnt! Fantastic title. So many sad excuses for couples I want to mention under it .

ebony/Jay
trudy/Jay
ebony/Bray
trudy/Bray
Amber/Sasha
Zandra/Lex
Siva/Lex
post s1 Amber/Bray
Kate/Jack
Brooke/Lucas
Peyton/Jake
Izzie/George
Rory/Dean
Buffy/Riley
Cordelia/Angel
Blair/Nate
Jenny/Nate
Serena/Dan
post s2 Blair/Chuck
Kimberly/Tommy
Meredith/Derek
Izzie/Danny
Cameron/House
Michelle/Tony
Michelle/Sid
Pandora/Thomas
Katie/Freddie

And a special mention for
Effy/Cook
During their very first scene I was already mildly disappointed with the idea of them, as I was hoping that Effy's glances were directed at the calm and likeable Freddie, rather than loud and headache-inducing Cook. But ok, it was meant to be ambiguous (all with the poor, sweet JJ hoping she was looking at him) and introduce the triangle (which, btw, we could have been spared of) I guess. Moreover, when Cook got up and attracted Effy's interest by standing up to that aggressive idiot in the street, I gained more positive impression about Cook as a character (Cook who stands up against the bullies and helps random stranger in the street is someone I can really appreciate. Cook who becomes a bully and beats up random strangers at a party not really) and the possibility of this ship (why wouldn't Effy be intrigued/impressed by Cook's behaviour here. it was impressive). Unfortunately, then came the idiotic list to erase that positiveness and make me wary towards Effy as character (I loath characters who play idiotic little games with others to entertain themselves and think that makes them interesting. no, it does not. it makes them juvenile and tiresome to watch). Cook knows how idiotic her "tasks" are, yet he completes them anyway (causing Sid's former locker to be set on fire in the process. not cool.). Whatever. He gets his reward in the end and they have sex in a creepy nursery room (which makes me think of sickness not of anything remotely sexy). As idiotic and boring as I found most of their behaviour in the first episode, I at least could have appreciated the fact two people with similar ideas of fun found each other. When it comes to romance, I am birds of a feather type first and foremost, so I usually do like couples where I'm shown some uniting similarities in their natures, histories and/or interest. Except that wasn't exactly convincingly pulled off with CE imo. You can't just throw in how they both like to party or whatever and leave it at that. Other than pulling the "whildchild" card as something to presumably make them suitable for each other, I did not see Skins writers show me sufficient reasons as to why these tow would be good for each other. Even their ability to have fun together and connect on some level through that kinda flew out of the window after I watched a scene in which Effy is bored out of her mind while they are having sex and Cook is enjoying himself, without even noticing her obvious indifference. What's wrong with this picture? Moreover, party animals and joint runaways or not, I could never quite figure out how the withdrawn (and I would consider her such, due to how much she keeps her inner thoughts and world inside) not-so-talkative Effy could function for long with Cook who was always speaking his mind and usually couldn't shut up even if his mouth was filled with food and drink. Wouldn't she grow as detached from him as she was from that horrific won't-shut-up-either friend of hers we met in her s1 episode? Anyway, even with all of that aside, there is the way their "love" story was developed. In the first few episodes they were just having sex. Very literally. We saw no moments of them talking or sharing some meaningful-ish moment of non-verbal communication. Nothing. Just sex. Then at one point Effy also gets involved with Freddie. Whom she has been exchanging glances with since beginning. Indication they were secretly in love with each other? Of course not. They barely knew each other. But imo it was indication they were could have been interested in getting to know each other. I suppose it was based on physical attraction and indulging in potentially misleading positive first impressions. On the other hand, with CE I found it harder to believe there is any interest beyond physical attraction. Because, as I already mentioned, despite them already having sex, they weren't having any meaningful conversations (or any conversations for most of the time) or ever even looked at each other, touched each other, without the pure lust overtones. But then there was a little progress. Cook actually tells us how he thinks Effy is interested in Freddie, but prefers to sleep with him rather than pursuing that, because she's too afraid of developing genuine feeling for someone. I'm calling it progress because it at least show that he actually was aware of Effy's thought and feelings. But on the other hand, it also showed us he knew he was being used for sex and agreed to being used for sex, when he may have wanted more (Cook needs love too). Not something that exactly made me want to root for this love story. Moreover, I disliked how Cook's alleged feelings for Effy were suddenly thrown in. I would have preferred it if they developed him being disappointed in being just sex for her as part of his general (and for me annoying, but that's irrelevant atm) "nobody loves me" issue, rather than turning it into "Cook really wuvs Effy." Because up to that point the lack of deeper interest in the other in their sex arrangement was mutual. Just like Effy did not seem to interested Cook and was glancing over to Freddie a little to often, Cook too did not seem all that deeply into Effy. While being with her, he also hit on every girl he met. Including her best friend. Where the hell were hidden feelings for Effy implied behind all that is beyond me. Which is why the episode where they run off and he's all "it's you and me, babe. it's always been you and me" made me and (not to mention, do not steal and ruin Sid's lines I usually don't complain about re-used lines and recycled language because I don't think it's a big deal if two character expressed similar feeling in the same way, but in this case I wanted about it, because Sid>Cook, SC>CE, ok writers? no parallels drawn even accidentally or vaguely, please). And then his tragic, unrequited love for her from s3 finale . Still don't get where it even came from. But whatever, I hoped he'd move on from that if she continues to not return it. Or find an unannoying way to deal with it. Does that happen? Unfortunately no. In s4 Cook becomes only more irritating in relation to this issue. He frowns and pouts everytime FE (by this time a couple) are in sight. Cook, how about a piece of advice you like to give to others? Grow up, please. Anyway, not only does he handle it like a brat for awhile (that I could have even tolerated in the long run. we all have our bratty phases), he also gives himself the right to beat up random people provoked by his ~pain. Wth? Who does that? Even if it is love he's feeling for Effy, it's a very destructive and unhealthy one. Not that people necessarily don't do stupid things when in love, especially if it's not returned, but enjoying beating other people up for it to relive the pain is a little too much. Meanwhile Effy is still not romantically interested in him and makes sure to tell him that again when she comes to visit him. Will he finally move on? No, when they interact again a few episodes later, he tries to hook up with her. Eloquently pointing out how much they have in common (they are both standing in the rain and are feeling miserable. yeah, I agree. that's about how deep their similarities go). Give it a rest man, she doesn't want you. And it's not just me saying it, she says it too ("piss off"). Again. Surely, now he'll stop pushing it? No. Fastforward a bit and we get to the part where Effy without memories and Cook are ~bonding. I can't even really blame Cook for not immediately figuring out there is something wrong with her. With Effy's love for playing games, she kinda brought it upon herself for people to assume she is. But the thing that bugs me about these interactions of theirs is that they end with him trying to kiss her (btw, don't kiss people who have just experienced a trauma [as is nearly being run over by a car]. it's not romantic or comforting as far as I'm concerned. it looks more like taking advantage of someone's emotional state to hook up with them. this is not even my issue with Cook, but actually more of a general complaint to the writers who write these sort of scenes for their couples and seem to think they are romantic) and her, her memory being magically restored (), asking Cook to take her to see Freddie and referring to Cook as her friend. So hopefully, now we're finally done with this non-love story. With how s4 finale left things, I'm not too sure about anything the future might have had in store for these characters, but Cook himself spending last two episodes for a change not trying to hook up with Effy or whining about his epic wuv for her left me hopeful that this non-love story was indeed finally over. About bloody time.

ETA:
CE and gazillion couples I dislike made me forget my most hated couples of the moment:
s4 Skins finale/existence
Skins writers/whatever possessed them while they were writing s4

IceKat055

mary ksand

This post is flawless and amazing, so flawless I want to actually print it and decorate my wall with it ITA on everything.

You know to me, it really doesn't matter if two people are kindred spirits type or opposites attract type, because I think that those are just cliches and real love is something deeper and bigger than that. With CE writers apparently tried to play a "look how similar they are, they are perfect for each other" card, however, it wasn't quite what they really where. Yes, they lived a similar life style, but the reasons why they lived it where fundamentally different. Effy used to hide behind this mask of a party girl, hide from her feelings and from her real self. And Cook lived a life style he lived because he wanted to feel more and also because he was a jerk. He enjoyed being loud, annoying and quite often even abusive. This was the REAL him. It wasn't a mask like in Effy's case.

And I think the writers did a pretty good job showing it. Time and time again they showed us that this two simply don't get or understand each other or just insult/humiliate each other. Like that scene when Cook insulted Effy for not wanting to have sex with him. And all they did was having sex. Nothing more. No glances, no interactions, no communications, heck - not even a proper conversation (because "I am not going anywhere your dick, I know where it's been" doesn't really count ). Nothing. Just heavy make out sessions that resulted in that creepy scene when Effy was so bored by sex with Cook and he wouldn't even notice how misereable and uninterested she was in him - he would enjoy himself. Doesn't it show how this two are fundamentally wrong for each other and would never work? And in fact, they never even tried to work, because it was mutually decided between them that they are just sex buddies and Cook btw was the first to like this decision because he would bang every chick he can, including Effy's best friend behind her back.

Another thing is that from the start it was obvious that Effy shows interest for Freddie. It was obvious for us, because FE actually had a build up sharing all those glances, hand touches and finally that beautiful kiss in the lake. It was obvious for Cook because Effy would constantly eye sexing Freddie right in front of him And more than that, it is canon that Cook always knew that FE have feelings for each other and proof - window scene when Cook actually gets to witness Effy staring at Freddie out of the window but he still goes to **** her because he apparently enjoyed hurting Freddie way more than having sex with Effy. Because as far as we know Cook wouldn't even notice Effy during their sex so he could easily use his hand instead (which I actually wish he did so I wouldn't have to watch all those creepy CE sex scenes ), but he got almost a sadistical satisfaction out of the fact that he was hurting Freddie by his affair with Effy, which makes CE absolutelly not romantic and turns Cook into an emotionally abusive bastard.

Another thing is Cook's line to Freddie - "She loves you man. But she can't stand love so she ****s me instead" THIS right here. Cook not only KNEW about FE feelings but he also used Effy's fears and insecurities due to keep this affair going. That is why I had a zero sympathy for him in that situation. Knowing that Effy used him to hide from her feelings for Freddie, Cook pulled this "It's you and me, always you and me" thing Ok. So... Cook who was a womanizing jerk and never really bothered to be loyal to Effy suddenly turns out to be "epically" in love with her? As much as I tried but I couldn't buy it. All I saw was a guy screwing everything that moved and his affair with Effy was more of a way to him to compete with Freddie and cause him pain. No feelings for Effy from Cook's side during the whole S4 where not even the case.

then in S4 it gets even worse, because Cook thinks it is totally ok for him to physically abuse an innocent guy just because he saw FE kissing And then not even feeling sorry for it. How much of a jerk can he be? When Freddie saw CE in the window did he go punch someone in a face? And Cookie, your "heartbreak" is entirely your fault, remember? Not Freddie is to blame, not Effy is to blame, not that innocent guy or JJ whom you managed to assult to are to blame - YOU are. You knew about FE feelings and still got into affair with Effy. No sympathy, soz.

The rain CE scene will never be not funny and not pathetic. So not only Cook declaired his love for Effy once again but he also admitted to be willing to "do it all again, everything" which meant that he felt absolutelly no remorse or guilt over those horrible things he did Then when CE kissed and Effy remembered everything (which was ridiculously contrived and NOT romantic at all because Cook just took adventage on the situation. Though didn't he do it before: he always used Effy's emotional problems to get in her pants) and Effy asked Cook to take her to Freddie and told Cook he is nothing more nothing less but her friend. The end. The truth is that no matter if Cook ever tries to hook up with Effy or not, she will NEVER be with him, because she doesn't want it and doesn't love him. She grew strong to say "no" to him. She doesn't want Cook and that is why CE are over for good. Also I kind of hope that Cook actually at least started realizing he had no chance and getting over it, because he gave Effy Freddie's notebook, which implied that Cook dealt with the fact that FE always loved each other and that Effy loved one person in her life who was Freddie and he simply took it as it was.