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Old 02-16-2016, 06:55 PM
  #241
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Season two has been a weird season. In season one it felt like there were sure signs of Rafael being the one. For example, Alba telling a story about love is giving up money as it is nothing, and Rafael doing the same for Jane. Then there was the flashback of Xio telling young Jane love feels like your heart is glowing and Jane's heart glowing for Rafael. Young Jane asking if there is an endorphin test to test for love and narrator saying Jane and Rafael would score through the roof. Xio looking for a spark with Marco and to her dismay seeing the spark when Rafael and Jane's hands touched. There were signs and they made sense.

I feel like season two has been all over the place. And it is not just because I like J/R more than J/M.
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Old 02-16-2016, 08:22 PM
  #242
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IA, Season 2 has felt all over the map for me. And I know, it's not just b/c of shipping. I mean, I doubt J/M fans are happy either. I've liked some of the stories, like Rogelio and his family, and Alba getting her green card. And I like anything to do with Mateo. But that's about it for me. Even Jane and Rafael as individual characters have been a little unlikable for me. And they are my two favorites.
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Old 02-16-2016, 08:59 PM
  #243
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Yes. In season 2 Rafael's story was mainly about chasing Jane. The second part of season 2 might be different. Now they are focusing on his mother, his relationship with petra, even the hotel stuff. They completely left these things out during the first half. As a character Rafael also has many storylines to juggle as Jane, if not more. So I was annoyed that they only focused on one during the first half.

Jane, where do I get started with Jane. I haven't liked her at all in season 2. She seemed confused and unsure of things all the time.
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Old 02-16-2016, 09:13 PM
  #244
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I think having the baby is what changed her a lot, and made her so unsure of things. Something like that would shake things up for anyone. I think she's sure of motherhood and writing, but not her personal life. It's understandable to me.

I wish she and Rafael could just stay single for awhile if they're not together. But this show won't let that happen. Both of them are looking stupid for going back to their exes. Rafael in particular.

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Yes. In season 2 Rafael's story was mainly about chasing Jane. The second part of season 2 might be different. Now they are focusing on his mother, his relationship with petra, even the hotel stuff. They completely left these things out during the first half. As a character Rafael also has many storylines to juggle as Jane, if not more. So I was annoyed that they only focused on one during the first half.
Excellent point, IMO. Especially since just concentrating on his relationship with Jane made him look pushy and obsessive when she was in a vulnerable place.

It's like the show has a really hard time achieving any balance this season.
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Old 02-16-2016, 09:58 PM
  #245
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For now Rafael is still single. He kissed Petra but we don't know how he feels. I hope he regrets it.
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Old 02-16-2016, 10:29 PM
  #246
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I hope he does too. I'm glad Petra asked him if he was over Jane instead of giving in to the kiss. I think that's going to make him reconsider. But we'll see.

I'm going through the gifs in the Jane x Rafael tag, and it's making me nostalgic.



x

I can't wait until we have stuff like this back on JTV.
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Old 02-16-2016, 11:46 PM
  #247
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This season, it seems like the writers decided to bet it all on the love triangle. With 22 episodes, the story has dragged on way too long and lurched all over the place. To make the triangle work, they had to make Michael catch up to Rafael by giving him a huge hero edit and forcing Michael and Rafael to be even on everything including mistakes. But in doing so, they have sacrificed all beauty of J/R’s love story told so wonderfully last year. We have no idea if she even loves Rafael anymore. Even the premise of the show, the artificial insemination of a virgin, seems irrelevant now if her love Rafael is in question.

Though this season has stumbled all over the place plot-wise, the story of their maturing relationship has moved forward in a steadfast way. They have grown so much. Now they can navigate their differences while having a solid friendship. I just need to see a glowing heart and cow eyes (shout out to Shu) from Jane towards Rafael. He’s been doing the heavy lifting himself now for too long!

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Old 02-17-2016, 05:13 AM
  #248
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Seriously he always felt like a plot device to me. What makes you say that though
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Old 02-17-2016, 08:17 AM
  #249
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Seriously he always felt like a plot device to me. What makes you say that though
If he is something besides a plot device that creates opposition for J/R, we'd see more of his life at this critical juncture in the main plot line for the past season. We're supposed to buy that he's Jane's true love when he has been given a girlfriend and newfound happiness that we know nothing about? How can the audience be expected to cheer for him or hope that he doesn't fall in love with the girlfriend or see Jane get jealous or anything that gets people invested in a couple's love story when we are never shown his life?

Heck just the little 10 second text exchange between J/R a couple of episodes ago is 1000% more revealing than all of Michael's screen time since episode 205. How does a show create a romantic male lead out of a character who barely has any screen time and is never seen outside of his job duties? I don't buy it.

I think the tell that this is J/R's story is that we know and understand both characters outside of each other. They are full people outside of one another but have a deep connection (Mateo, friendship). This show is the least about Michael if you think about it. Even Petra is more fleshed out than than Michael.
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Old 02-17-2016, 09:30 AM
  #250
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If he is something besides a plot device that creates opposition for J/R, we'd see more of his life at this critical juncture in the main plot line for the past season. We're supposed to buy that he's Jane's true love when he has been given a girlfriend and newfound happiness that we know nothing about? How can the audience be expected to cheer for him or hope that he doesn't fall in love with the girlfriend or see Jane get jealous or anything that gets people invested in a couple's love story when we are never shown his life?

Heck just the little 10 second text exchange between J/R a couple of episodes ago is 1000% more revealing than all of Michael's screen time since episode 205. How does a show create a romantic male lead out of a character who barely has any screen time and is never seen outside of his job duties? I don't buy it.

I think the tell that this is J/R's story is that we know and understand both characters outside of each other. They are full people outside of one another but have a deep connection (Mateo, friendship). This show is the least about Michael if you think about it. Even Petra is more fleshed out than than Michael.
YES! WORD to this ENTIRE POST!

I'm waiting for the next few episodes to air before I binge what I've missed.
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Old 02-17-2016, 09:39 AM
  #251
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I've actually been enjoying Michael in the past few eps, but IA he's been more of a plot device than a character for long time now. We know so little about him, and also, why does he love Jane so much? He's had other great women in his life, and IMO, someone like Nadine understood him better. So what elevates Jane above Andie, Nadine, and his current gf?

I'm hoping there's a reason for all this, and more shall be revealed by the show. But this season has been messy, so I'm not all that hopeful.

Mostly, it feels like a lot of the characters are taking a step or two backwards, and undoing any growth they had in S1.
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Old 02-17-2016, 03:58 PM
  #252
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This show is the least about Michael if you think about it. Even Petra is more fleshed out than than Michael.
So true. That is why I don't understand why J/M fans see him as endgame. The problem with the triangle is that it makes you lose a little respect for the three individuals involved.
I like Jane far less than i did last year.

And if i hear Jane say to Rafael "I trust him (Michael)" one more time, i will throw my tv out the window!! I feels really hurtful when she does that.
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Old 02-17-2016, 03:58 PM
  #253
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This show is the least about Michael if you think about it. Even Petra is more fleshed out than than Michael.
Exactly! If the narrator in season 1 hadn't mentioned his illustrious career as a detective I would think he was some major villain. Almost every other character has a background story. Michael does not have anything. It is weird.

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I've actually been enjoying Michael in the past few eps, but IA he's been more of a plot device than a character for long time now. We know so little about him, and also, why does he love Jane so much? He's had other great women in his life, and IMO, someone like Nadine understood him better. So what elevates Jane above Andie, Nadine, and his current gf?

I'm hoping there's a reason for all this, and more shall be revealed by the show. But this season has been messy, so I'm not all that hopeful.

Mostly, it feels like a lot of the characters are taking a step or two backwards, and undoing any growth they had in S1.
Yeah. I found him more tolerable in recent episodes. This is a good question I never thought about. His ex seemed okay. Even her stalking thing wasn't too creepy. He did go on a date with her again so it probably wasn't too bad of a break up. And I think they broke up before he dated Jane. Why didn't they work?
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Old 02-17-2016, 04:45 PM
  #254
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So true. That is why I don't understand why J/M fans see him as endgame. The problem with the triangle is that it makes you lose a little respect for the three individuals involved.
In reading their thread over here, they seem to realize that he is on the outside. They'd like to see him integrated more and hoping he will be when she picks him. They think that if Jane wanted to be with Rafael, she could have all season, but she is waiting for Michael because he is the one. They are a good bunch who just don't see things the way we do. I guess we'll find out which camp is right soon enough.

Quote:
And if i hear Jane say to Rafael "I trust him (Michael)" one more time, i will throw my tv out the window!! I feels really hurtful when she does that.
This is something I totally don't get. Why doesn't Jane trust Rafael even now? Is this all residual suspicion from when Michael was trying to prove Raf's involvement with Sin Rostro? I almost lost it when, during the Christmas episode, she was trying to dig up dirt on him through Wesley Masters, and wrote an awful short story about following him to a bad part of town. What has he done to deserve her suspicion so much? Her lack of trust in him is the one thing that gives me pause about them being the endgame.
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Old 02-17-2016, 06:57 PM
  #255
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In tv shows there is no right or wrong. The writers can do anything and often they do really outrageous things. After years of being betrayed I have zero faith in tv writers.

Michael is definitely on the outside and not in a good way. It is as if the writers know they have been sloppy (or really smart if he turns out to be a bad guy) with Michael's storyline so they try to compensate through the J/M flashbacks. Okay even then they are not doing much there.

The thing is I think most J/R fans get what J/M is about. We understand what is good about them. He knows her, they have history, he is supposedly the nice guy among the two, he supported her when she got pregnant by a random guy's child, he loved her even though she left him for another man.
We understand why they think J/R is bad. They are different, according to some fans Rafael tried to manipulate Jane, she supposedly never had real feelings for him, he only loved her uterus etc. This is all understandable but I feel that J/M fans don't understand the good parts of J/R relationship even a bit. That is why they underestimate J/R's relationship. Since Mateo's birth Jane has not been pining over Rafael but why should she? He is right there infront of her asking her to be with him. He is a constant part of her life. She doesn't even get a chance to miss him or wonder what life would be like without him. He is not just her ex-boyfriend, he is her friend as well. When they are together they don't have time to be lovey dovey romantic. They have their own complicated lives, they have a baby. Mateo comes before everything else for them. Think about how tough it was for them to set up just a SINGLE date.
Maybe Jane is not in love with Rafael at the moment, but she loves him. She cares for him as much as she cares for Michael if not more. Most of the time it seems like she is more worried about hurting Rafael's feelings than being with Michael. In season two, Jane and Rafael did not have the time to reconnect romantically, something always came up. When Jane looks at Rafael he is not the fantasy anymore. He is the father of her child who she always needs to have a good relationship with for the sake of her child. She already took the biggest risk of her life by jumping into a romantic relationship with him once, it is going to take a whole lot more to make her do it again. It is not a matter of well if she really wanted to be with him it would've happened already because if that is the case then I can say if she really wanted to be with Michael she would've been with him already. Whenever Rafael and Jane have a moment it is not that Jane doesn't feel him in those moments. To me it always looked like she hesitates because she is afraid. She is afraid things will go wrong between them. She got hurt once by taking a leap of faith and now her child is involved as well. Even when she was in love with him she was so against giving Rafael another chance. I think on two occasions when Rafael made a move she mentioned she still had feelings for Michael. But what does that really mean on this show when you are having a moment? Xiomara kissed Marco even though she was in love with Rogelio. When Jane kissed Rafael in episode 6 did all her feelings for Michael completely vanish? Or when she is making out with Jonathan at the moment are all her feelings for Michael dead? In this show you kiss because you felt something at that moment. Every time she came close to kissing Rafael she felt something. Every time she pulled back. I don't think what she does with Rafael has anything to do with Michael. I think she is just afraid of being with Rafael. That is what this whole romantic saga is about. It is about her fear of being with Rafael. It was a huge theme in season 1. Although they do not explicitly talk about it in season 2 I think it is very much the main issue between J/R. I don't know what J/M's theme is. I would like to know.

I don't know when JTV will end. But if season 2 is not the last season I don't know how J/M will ever be endgame. From the comments I have seen it seems like J/M fans themselves don't know how J/M story will continue or how they would like it to continue. The stories and conflicts they seem to want are the exact plot J/R already have. They want to see Michael and Jane raise Mateo. They want the good parts and the difficult parts. But that is a J/R storyline. They understand Rafael's constant presence in their lives would be the biggest source of much needed conflict in a J/M storyline. Some also want a path to Rafael/Michael friendship. Basically all stories somehow lead back to Rafael or Mateo because you take Rafael out of their lives and they would be a pointless boring (maybe married) couple that might be functional but they should not be on a tv show. And the show can't be without romantic drama. This is not a sitcom. It would not work. J/R as a couple have a story. Their story is not just about finding themselves but also about finding each other. That has been there since day 1!! Here is Jane, here is the guy half a world away. Two different people, two different worlds, look how their worlds collide. And even now this is the story.
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