ride the lightning

Thats true Thank goodness for Jate

diamond gothic

mary ksand

I see your point The show was not supposed to end like that because it hardly made any sense for the main character to die. Hercules didn't die and Xena wasn't supposed to either. Especially that way and especially taking that writers ruined all the sense of the story by making Gabrielle take her place.

The_Void

Angel/Cordelia - Treated by the writers with about as much respect as an old rag.
Mini/Franky - Had so much potential, only for it to be flushed down the drain and both characters twisted into unrecognisable versions of themselves.

Also Barney/Robin (unless the writers manage to salvage something from the mess they have created).

Aw don't worry, you're not a weirdo. I never cared for either one of them either.

mary ksand

Honestly, I feel like ATS is later seasons treated everything like that. All the relationships and all the characters. They hardly ever mentioned Doyle, they ruined Gunn, they ruined the dynamic of the gang, they came up with the awfulness that was Connor/Cordy. I really sometimes want to look them in the eye and ask them what they were smoking while writing it.

The_Void

I actually really enjoyed the later seasons in general. My only major problem is how Cordelia's character was treated in S4. But each to their own.

mary ksand

I think it really depends. Maybe I felt that way because I wasn't the biggest ATS fan in general, I like Angel, but he is not my favourite Whedonverse character and when writers started coming up with decisions that I didn't like, I kind of lost an interest in the show. Plus I didn't have any lucky ship on the show. Darla/Angel, Doyle/Cordy and Fred/Gunn were all ruined

The_Void

Yeah, I get how you feel. I guess we're just opposites in basically every way, because I always loved Ats and in many ways preferred it to BtVS (and Angel is my favourite Whedonverse character after Faith ).

I know how you feel about the ships. I shipped Angel/Cordy, Wesley/Lilah and Darla/Angel a bit, and look how they all turned out. Shipping on a Joss Whedon show is hard...

Stefan/Caroline - I was patient. I waited a long time to get some kind of scene. But now we're 2/3 of the way through the season and the two of them have barely acknowledged each others' existence, let alone shared a scene. It's actually getting ridiculous. Not from a shipping perspective, but from the fact that by the end of last season, Caroline was probably Stefan's best friend, and now they're like strangers? It makes no sense.

mary ksand

well at least we both felt the equal ammount of pain when shipping on Whedon shows. Because he screwed over all of those ships, yourth and mine.

Funny thing about Faith is that I actually like her on ATS a lot. I felt like her redemption there was believable and much better done than Willow's redemption, for example (but not gonna go too far into that). So for me it's like BTVS and ATS Faith are two different characters and while I wasn't the biggest ATS fan in general after Doyle's death, I appreciate it for redeeming Faith for me. Usually tv shows fail redeem characters I dislike, but somehow it worked with her.

Well, at least we share Stefan/Caroline and that is another pain we have in common In addition to Harry/Luna, though honestly I'm not nearly as much disappointed in Harry/Luna as I am in Stefan/Caroline, because while HL shared beautiful scenes, SC were completely ignored in every sense of that word.

ice choco

Exactly. I don't see why mostly all my fave female characters have to freakin die!

Gabrielle may think she is as good as Xena, but she will NEVER take her place. Xena was THE warrior princess.

Oh hey I ship those too. But they all of course ended up having atleast 1 of them die from each couple.

The_Void

Joss Whedon likes to destroy couples. Sometimes I think the man gains energy from human tears.

I kinda agree about Faith. The best of her definitely came in AtS. Her last scene in "Five by Five" is easily her best, one of the most powerful scenes I've ever seen on TV. Although I don't see them as different characters, I see Faith's regret and redemption on AtS as a natural evolution from her time on BtVS, I do think the writers in AtS brought out the best in her.

Absolutely. Even though I'm sad that Harry/Luna never got together, at least they shared so many meaningful scenes. Right up until the very end, Luna was shown to be the one who understands Harry. Throughout the books we got so many great scenes that showed how much they mean to each other, care about and understand each other. I could live with Stefan/Caroline never happening as long as they got scenes, but we're being deprived of anything even resembling a scene. At this point it's not just disappointing, it's downright unrealistic.

oicaxf

Belle & Rumpel
Seriously? Rumpel as Beast? You have ruined my favourite fairy tale¡

mary ksand

That's an interesting theory And really close to the truth

Yeah, I think it was not OOC for her to change and evolve, I was just trying to say that a lot of shows fail to redeem a character and write a believable story of this character's growth and evolation, make a characte acknowledge his/her mistakes, take responsibility for them and never come back to them again. Shows nowdays seem to think that a one step forward three steps back is a good development that makes a character complex and multi-layered but for me it is the most effective way to ruin a character and I could never like that. That's why I was glad that on ATS Faith realized how wrong she was, she took responsilbity for what she did, she was not given free passes because of her hard life, she got a fair punishment for her crimes and then she turned into a champion she was meant to become. That's why despite that I'll never be able to like what she did on BTVS, I can appreciate and enjoy her growth on ATS and her storyline there was one of the most interesting aspects of the show for me as well as her relationship with Angel.


I never cared for endgames and was greatful for those moments and scenes I got with my ships, I thought Harry/Luna bond was written perfectly in both books and movies and each and every interaction they shared only further proved how right they are for each other and I didn't even need an actual romance between them to happen to see that. My only regret is the Epiloge that makes no other sense than slapping non-canon shippers in a face. But with Stefan/Caroline it was a much bigger slap, because they started so beautifully with their friendship being so meaningful and then it just... stops and never comes back. As if it never happened. It makes zero sense and definitely is not realistic at all.



I'm sorry about that I have the same story with my favourite male characters. For some reason I always end up loving the ones that are not writers' favourites and they either end up being mistreated or dead

I love Gabrielle as a character but turning her into Xena 2.0 was downright ridiculous after their difference had been the main focus of the show for years.

ice choco

I liked her at first, but then she started to get annoying for me. But there are still times I kinda like her.

That's one of the things that gets me .. why make it so they seem so different at first and keep doing that for years, and then suddenly in the last 2 eps they make it so where Gabrielle seems to be alot like Xena? Doesn't make sense.

I can't believe soo many characters die. Your fave male characters and my fave female characters. I mean heck, I even made that long list of female characters I love that die.. or supposedly die. Since some of them didn't get a good closure.

mary ksand

I was actually the opposite, I was slightly annoyed by Gabrielle at the very beginning because she seemed kind of useless to me, but at some point when she got some of her own storylines and actually started moving the plot I started liking her and what I liked the most was the dynamic between her and Xena that was built on them being different and showing each other different sides of every situation. But then erasing the basic sense of their story in two last episodes by making them the same made such a little sense.

I know And the worst thing is that 90 percents of those characters were killed off in a very lame, badly written manner that did nothing for the plot other than ruining it. I feel like writers sometimes really can't see the differences between being edgy and provocative and being ridiculous and illogical.