tracey1302

Well that was a rough hour of television.

Thoughts:

-Loved Carrie and Astrid working together. While I am still cross with Carrie for waiting nine days to look for Quinn, I thought the way her and Astrid worked together to try and find him and then obviously, save him, was really beautiful. And the scene in particular where Astrid held Carrie's hand was just stunning. It's like Astrid realises what's between these two, even if they don't quite realise it themselves yet. And it's pretty powerful.

-Carrie finally showing emotion over Quinn!! Hurrah!! And lots of it to boot. By far the most powerful scene for me was when Carrie saw the video of Quinn in the cafe. She was visibly shaking and she stumbled and fell over. After all the mental health problems she has had, after the amount of medication she is on to keep her straight and she is literally knocked off balance by the sheer horror she feels for her friend.

-Are they friends? Or are they tipping the scales in the other direction towards lovers again? I don't know. I feel we've been very heavily manipulated by the writers this season but as a result, I don't know how we're meant to feel about the relationship between Carrie and Quinn. I've never seen her break down like that, on so many occasions, for the same person. Even Brody. After all, Quinn has been there for her for a long time now when Brody hasn't and I think she's only just starting to realise what that means. And as I said earlier, those feelings are pretty freaking powerful and look set to drive the next few episodes.

pervy minion

I watched this episode before work this morning because I wanted to see it asap. And the state i was in... crying like a baby. Heartwrenching episode, it was tough to watch... I'm still emotional over fictional characters.

That was basically me:

tracey1302

You and me both.

I keep watching the gifs of the scene where she sees his finger move and realises he is alive and is literally sobbing...

I swear no ship is put through the mill like this one. We are totally in the line of fire in every episode.

What do you think this episode means for C/Q going forward? I can't help but feel this has got to be going somewhere... Otherwise what's the bloody point?!? If we see her fawning over Jonas again after this, I swear 😡

I'm watching season three (sped through season two) and I just think that there has to be some sort of end game for Carrie and Quinn. So much is different about their relationship than any of Carrie's other relationships. He just gets her, completely. She trusts him, completely. And the relationship between them has built and built and now it's so goddamn powerful that it knocks Carrie off her feet. Literally. And we haven't seen that from her before.

I also somehow find it very significant that Carrie hasn't slept with Quinn yet. I know the fandom is desperate for it but I don't mind waiting and quite like that we haven't had this. In the past, Carrie uses sex to manipulate men. Brody in particular. Yes, she loved him. But she also used sex to manipulate him and play him. She won't do that with Quinn. She can't do that with Quinn. He knows her too well. He knows how she thinks. This for me establishes this ship as something very different than all of Carrie's other relationships.

We can see that from her reactions to his 'death' in this episode. He's *more* to her than a potential lover. He's a best friend, he's her colleague, he's her rock, her touchstone, her conscience. He's everything. And God willing, she's starting to realise that!!

pervy minion

First of all, Quinn has to be alive and well. It was the same last year. Fans speculated about their possible romantic relationship. I guess we're gonna talk about it till the series finale...

I don't think Carrie ever realized how important Quinn is to her. She took him for granted. The moment she saw him 'dying', something inside her broke. She will never be in love with Quinn the same way she was with Brody, but that's good, it was too intense and damaging. She was never friends with him.

At this point, it's so obvious that Quinn is in love with her, it hurts. As for Carrie, was the last episode the turning point? It's possible. I hope they will have a serious conversation and confront who they are to each other, so they can finally be together in season 6. It would give the writers so much to explore. They dissected every aspect of their friendship, now it's time for something more!

I enjoyed the scenes Carrie shared with Astrid. Seeing how devastated Carrie was, Astrid comforted her and let her grieve.

pervy minion

tracey1302

How are you?

I have felt sick most of today.

Leelala

Needed to come here and vent my utter sadness at how the finale went down and how Quinn had been treated all season... I kind of had an inkling that they were never going to let these two be happy. But THIS!! I feel so cheated!! Did they really do this to Quinn to further Carrie's story?? but HOW?? I don't see how they couldnt still keep him around for that? Did they not want her to be happy? And WTH is up with Otto??????? so all the stuff he was saying to Jonas about staying away from Carrie was just so he could have her all to himself?? WHAT???
The writers create all these suitors for Carrie but they never give her the best one. Why do they continue to do this.!! Quinn got a brief ****ty little back story and they read the letter and thats it... see ya..... Plus Quinn's fighting for his life while Carries off having sex with Jonas??????

Another thing; Dar Adal knew Quinn since he was 16 but didnt even look sad that he was gone???
And if Quinn did survive which I doubt, how the hell will he go on????

Excuse the rant.

pervy minion

Let's face it, they've prepared us for this moment since Quinn got shot. This whole season was an eulogy for him. There was nothing ambiguous about it, he died. Inclusion of the letter (which was so beautiful) confirms my conviction. Him being a beacon of light, and then light coming through the room may seem cheesy, but I think it was poetic. That was the moment he found his peace forever.

Writers clearly don't want Carrie to find her happiness in personal or professional life. That makes me mad.

tracey1302

I hope you guys will allow me to state where I've arrived at now, with time to process. I've posted this on my tumblr and on the live community where I discuss C/Q with other folks. I didn't think I'd get here but I have....I hope I'm on point. Like, really hope. The episode aired over here in the UK last Sunday and all members of my family thought that the end was ambiguous.

Here we go....

I’m angry. Very angry. And I will remain so, regardless of how this situation is resolved. The weird thing is, I’ve kind of come full circle on the whole thing. I’ll share my process….

Ridiculous shot of Carrie’s face fades and cuts to black.

Me:



Did they? They did.

But he didn’t even…

What was the point in the…

This was me for pretty much all of last Monday morning.



I couldn’t stop being angry. I thought about the fact that the writers had effectively been flogging a dead horse for the whole season. I thought about the fact that Quinn fans (of which there are trillions!!) had been manipulated the whole season.
Quinn had been shot, beaten up, kidnapped, tortured and then finally been rendered brain dead… And then supposedly killed off. All in one season.

More anger.



I use the Dexter gif ironically really as there was so much wrong with that season finale I don’t even know where to start.
Then I thought about Carrie. And her in this season. I saw it, you saw it, the critics saw it (always thought that NYT article where she said the characters were all off kilter was painfully accurate) Carrie was not Carrie this season.

I get that we had a two year time gap. I get that. But what was different is that these people, and I include Saul as well as Quinn here, these people who had been to hell and back together.. The writers separated them and it’s like they didn’t know what to do with her when they put them back together, especially given that they had new characters to play with.

Carrie, in this season alone…

1) Life with Jonas

2) Fight with Jonas

3) Kidnapped by Quinn

4) Reconnects with Quinn

5) Doesn’t answer Jonas when he says he doesn’t want to lose her

6) Worries about Quinn

7) Goes off to sort **** with Allison and documents

8) Doesn’t seem all that concerned when Jonas says Quinn is dying

9) Carrie, Quinn walked out of here bleeding to death to protect you, doesn’t that register?

10) Lip quiver and I’m over it.

11) Gazing longingly at Jonas and house.

12) I have a friend… Quinn… And I didn’t take care of him

13) I’m over it. Last I heard he was dead but meh, Allison and documents.

14) Where’s Jonas? I could use a cabin break.

15) Okay, sorted my ****. Let’s talk about Quinn. It’s been over a week since I’ve seen him. Should probably figure out what happened to him.

16) ****.

17) Double ****.

18) Yeah I kinda loved this guy.

Always remember the TV.com review for ‘The New Normal’ here…

“And now, after many episodes that were tightly focused on Allison, Carrie, and Saul’s tricky personal and professional histories, the show is asking the audience to remember that Carrie probably loves Quinn and that there hasn’t been a deadly assault on a major global city in a number of episodes.”

19) I’m here waiting for Quinn.

20) So Jonas, sexy time?

I realise that this is a very crass way to put the season but hopefully it does a good job at underlining the absolute cluster**** (love using this Quinn word) of writing for Carrie this season where these two men are concerned. It’s not even a love triangle. It’s not even a shape, it’s a zig zag line with no ****ing direction and giving the audience no indication whatsoever in which direction it is headed.

This is where I won’t forgive them. 5x10 and 5x11 looked like they were going our way. And then they went in another direction. No sense. No direction. No clue.



I read the reviews. Generally damning in how the Quinn situation was handled. Many feeling that this just didn't feel right. It didn't feel like a satisfactory end for this amazing character. Especially the ones over here in the UK.

Then I went on the Showtime Facebook page and Twitter feed… And this happened….

#PrayforQuinn



Suggesting that Quinn’s fate isn’t decided yet. And bringing along thousands of fans for the ride. Undoubtedly the main pull.

There are a few options here.

Either they are gonna do it once again and set up this whole ****ty, 'is Quinn dead?’ for the one, two, three, fourth time (?) in the season’s duration, and finally announce Season Six minus Rupert Friend and lose a **** load of viewers. I’m back to angry.

They deny all knowledge of stringing fans along. I curse the show and never watch anything by Alex Gansa again.

Or they’re gonna announce Rupert Friend is back, Quinn is alive and they are gonna play the miracle card. This option makes me cringe.

The religious symbolism in the final scene feels so off to me. Especially in a show like Homeland that is not afraid to show the ****. And to tie this in with some sort of a miracle is just…



It doesn’t work.

Or they could keep the Quinn is alive and do the 'Quinn as disabled’ storyline. This could work and I’m sure as **** that Rupert Friend could pull it off. But this option also leaves me a bit off.



Homeland goes in a very different direction. Carrie goes in a very different direction. This Quinn doesn’t have a place in the CIA. He doesn’t really have a place in Homeland. And we’re back with them not knowing what to do with him again.

Unless we have rehab Quinn a la rehab Hank in Breaking Bad.



This could work.

Then we have the Carrie is dreaming or hallucinating idea...



The other alternative is something that we haven’t thought of yet. Some other play. Something else that involves something else that we’re not even aware of.

And given this is the Homeland that brought us this:









And most recently, that we’ve seen this guy doing deeds with the devil and generally being the most morally ambiguous character on Homeland.



These were all pretty shocking storylines and were some of the biggest twists that I’ve ever seen on television. They weren’t exactly 'let’s bring this guy back from the dead’ big but hey, we’re in a Jon Snow/Glenn world now. Homeland has to compete with that ****. Whether we like it or not.

I’m not saying I subscribe to the Dar Adal conspiracy. But Dar doesn't really work without Quinn. Quinn is a major part of his character. And Dar is a popular character too. And Saul’s inevitably gonna be busy with Carrie so…



And for all of these reasons, I’m hanging fire on my judgement on whether Quinn is alive or dead and whether I’m going to continue watching. Maybe there’s something that we don’t know. Maybe there’s something that the writers don’t know but that they’re still figuring out. Maybe they need to work out Rupert’s work commitments so they’ve had to hit 'pause’ and keep us hanging.

Because that’s what they’re doing. #prayforquinn tells us they haven’t decided yet. The fact that they’re not doing any interviews (especially given that they did for Damien) is weird. They don’t want to tell us what they don’t know. Or they don’t want to tell us because they have a vague plan but haven’t worked out the kinks yet.

It doesn’t forgive the ****ty writing for Carrie. Nor does it forgive the flogging of Quinn’s character.

What it does do is leave it open ended. And it tells us, in no certain terms that Quinn was struggling with what he has been turned into (by Dar Adal nonetheless!) and it tells us that he loves Carrie. We knew. But maybe Carrie was a bit stupid and didn’t know. But now she does. Definitely.

These all leave some pretty awesome threads open for character arcs for Season Six. But they don’t work without Quinn. And I’m thinking that surely the writers know that their story doesn’t work without Quinn. Carrie doesn’t work without him, Dar doesn’t work without him. Dammit, I don’t work without him…



So that’s where I’m at now. I’m just at 'Fix this mess in the best amazing 'Homeland’ way possible or I’m out the door.'



Feel free to join me. It's pretty okay over here.

pervy minion

tracey1302

I would definitely say that he is still alive after this. What is there to debate if he's dead? They wouldn't let the Showtime exec float the possibility if he was dead.

My thoughts from Tumblr....

There’s been a lot of talk on what kind of a state he will be in when he wakes up.

If I’m honest, while it has been suggested that Quinn will not be the same in Season Six, I’m really loathe to think that he will be subjected to the kind of pain and suffering he was put through in Season Five while he is in recovery. The writers have done that, we saw it far too much in Season Five (pretty much from 5x04 onwards right until the end of the season!!) and it would be careless and repetitive writing for us to see it again.
I can see them going down the extreme PTSD route and perhaps some sort of physical disability which will involve significant physical therapy (much like Hank in Breaking Bad- I know I keep harping on about Hank but it’s just such a great example. His character arguably kicked more ass when he was in the latter half of rehab - not when he was collecting minerals 🙈)

I want more looks, more arguments, more angst. More scenes with Quinn looking at Carrie in that way he does after covering her cheeks with blood in 5x04. And I want more of her looking at him in the way she does throughout most of 4x12. Oh and 5x10 and 5x11, only naturally without all the pain and suffering that Quinn went through to make her look like that.


The thing is, for my money, they can’t keep Quinn shoved in a bed as a vegetable with no cognitive function. They may as well have killed him off! Meaning no offence but it does nothing for the character or for the plot of the show. Or for Carrie. There’s no progression. The fact that they are alluding to keeping him alive for me suggests that he will still have a significant role to play in Homeland as one of the three leads.

As someone said on the Hell Yeah Homeland blog, if they hadn’t have wanted to go down the Q/C route for the central romance of the show, they could have played down the relationship. They had the excuse of a two year time gap. Instead, they chose to make it painfully obvious that Quinn is still in love with Carrie, had us see the extent of how deeply Carrie cares for Quinn in 5x10 and 5x11 and had the last scene of Season Five be centred around how he feels about her. And have her find out, for real, with no ambiguity, no Syria waiting in the wings, that he loves her and classes himself as belonging to her, for always. And they’re keeping him alive. If they’re not gonna get them together, then what’s the point? Quinn is not only one of the leads, but is (and has been for at least two seasons) one half of a romance with the main character which has still not materialised. Why? Because they have two more seasons of story to tell.

So I am predicting that we will see a slow burn again with Quinn and Carrie in this next Season Six, culminating in a full relationship in the last Season. 😁