♥ Gale's Fragile Beauty ♥

Do you think it's too late for that? I feel they're too old to go back now. Too many years have passed.

brianitesince2001

Below are the lyrics of “Sleep” by Dandy Warhols at the end of 102 playing while Brian’s following Justin with his gaze as Justin drives away:

The lyrics: Well I could sleep forever
But it's of her I dream
If I could sleep forever
I could forget about everything

The interpretation below is not mine. It’s from a website that interprets songs. I changed the pronouns him and her to Brian and Justin. But, this was so accurate it gave me goose bumps and quite the revelation:

The meaning: “It hurts for Brian to think about Justin because he can't have Justin. Hence the "but," in the first line. Brian can only have Justin in his dreams. Brian wants to sleep forever so he can be with Justin forever and forget about everything else.”

The show lasted for five seasons and this was only the second episode. ALREADY Brian knew Justin would never be his. That was some foreshadowing. And, already Brian knew he loved Justin.

Production stated they contemplated using that song again at the end of 511 after Brian proposed to Justin. Cowlip said if they used it the repeated song would have shown how it went 180 degrees from Brian saying love is bull**** and he believes only in ****ing all the way to Brian taking a chance on love and proposing marriage.

I think if they used it again Cowlip were meaning to show us yet again how this wasn’t going to work out. But, hey, they had only three more episodes left so they figured, what’s the rush? We’ll break the audience’s collective heart soon enough!!

I said since 2001 this was love at first sight for both of them. Soooo many people have argued with me that it took time for Brian to fall in love and it was only Justin who felt the love immediately. The raging debate continues. I can write down every bit of evidence that states that Brian was head over heels the very second he saw Justin. But, people still say it wasn’t until season 2 that Brian realized his love.

Nope. Brian knew instantly he was in love with Justin – hence the song Sleep. He just wasn’t quite sure at first what it was because it was such an alien feeling and he definitely didn’t know what in the Hell to do with it. Brian also realized at such an early stage that this love was doomed and he would never be able to keep Justin by his side. (Don’t forget the deleted scene. Brian went back upstairs and was so upset he wasn’t in the mood to continue with George. THEN, of course, the Kinney instinct kicked in and he fell back to the only thing he knew. So, he said, “what the ****” and jumped on George Good****.)

We always say Justin was so much braver for recognizing and declaring his feelings for Brian so loudly and consistently. We always faulted Brian for keeping his defenses up, behaving relatively immaturely, and never being able to tell Justin he loved him.

But, in hindsight AND WITH MY SUDDEN REVELATION if Brian KNEW it was never going to happen as early as in ep 102 and yet delved in as much as he would allow himself to (which after awhile was pretty gung ho and though he never uttered the spoken words “I love you” his freaking heart was on his sleeve, in his eyes, in the tears caught in his throat and all over the freaking floor) we have to give him all the credit for bravery in the world. This guy knew he would lose Justin and took a chance on love anyway. I don’t know that I’d have the courage to open my heart and life up to somebody I KNEW was going to leave.

As I posted in the Brian and Justin thread Brian was lost in Justin. Brian knew he was going to lose Justin. Then, Brian lost Justin.

Oy – the angst.

SojournHeart11

I do believe it was love and lust at first sight for Brian, too. You do not exhibits reactions like the one Brian had when he first laid eyes on Justin toward someone who's going to be your trick forever. I think he immediately knew there was something rather special about Justin, and he was smitten. Though he would not easily admit it.

And thank you so much for bringing over the lyrics. "Sleep" has always been an early staple in describing the impending journey these two were soon to embark on together. What I think is very deep and profound is that the same song they used 1.02 they used at the very end of 5.13... which brought everything full circle.

brianitesince2001

Hi, Denise,

Ugh. Because I have Netflix I don't get that song. I looked at my reference sheet LyricWiki:Lists/Queer As Folk | LyricWikia | FANDOM powered by Wikia but I didn't see it in 510 so I didn't realize they used it in 513. (I should've used control F.)

Now I want to bawl. They DID repeat the song to show us that Brian was right from the beginning. Oh, those heartless SOB's.

As Fmaldy said just 2 seconds of showing Justin in Babylon.

If they had already released the actors there even something else they could've done. They could've just shown some stock footage of a NYC street with a photo-shopped sign on a bldg that said Kinnetik Inc.

Now, back in the day there was talk of a completely different ending that was shot and was intended. But, because of the political times they decided to discard that ending and make sure Brian Kinney remained the idol/icon/image of the ANTI hetero-sexual making sure he didn't even appear to be as he called it an "imitation" hetero-sexual.

I've searched this internet until I'm blue in the face and I cannot come up with hide nor hair of any evidence. I read ONE line regarding the changed ending. I can't remember where I read it and it doesn't make any sense to me.

The line was: But, the footage of Brandon kissing Jason Cox wasn't used so the whole ending changed and Brian wound up alone.

What could that possibly mean????? We know who Brandon is. And, Jason Cox is one of the porn stars at the awards ceremony when Emmett gets the award for being Fetch Dixon.

I don't know what their kissing each other has to do with Brian's happiness.

Does anybody know???

I also saw the deleted scene of the NEW young twink stepping into the baptism puddle on Liberty Avenue as if to say the whole cycle was going to repeat itself over and over again as it always had. But, that's neither here nor there.

Cowlip let us know that Brian was dancing alone up there on the gang's last gathering. Apparently, they all got together to go to Babylon one last time. Thanks, Cowlip, for letting us know that. Oy. They really stuck to us in the end, huh????

Any knowledge of alternate, happier endings on the cutting room floor????

Giotto

I'm sorry I can't answer yourquestions yet, but I bump the thread for you, so you can post again

♥ Gale's Fragile Beauty ♥

Reposting from the Music of QAF thread, to elaborate.



Wow! First - thanks so much for finding this clip. Don't know how you did it. I just couldn't locate it on YT.

Yes - let's take this over to S5 b/c I don't understand your question: or is it just an act?

Please explain! Thanks, also, for the insight. It helped me tremendously.


*** I wanted to continue this on the S5 discussion thread to ask you to clarify ...or was that just an act? But, I was the last one who posted there so I can't post again. :-(

brianitesince2001

I want to cite the above quote correctly b/c I don't want to go to jail for plagiarism. I added it b/c I want you all to feel/read/see the mood that was REAL in 2005. This quote was taken without permission b/c it's 12 years old and I don't know how to reach the author. I delved into this journal b/f season 5 aired. It's the reason I never subscribed to Showtime for that final season and why I never had the guts to actually watch the final 13 episodes as they aired. I owe so much to the authors of this journal and the posters who contributed.
This journal was a place where Jane and Larissa analyzed episodes 503 - 512. They just couldn't deal with analyzing 513 so they created a poll for the posters to take instead. It's really, really funny. Laughter was the ONLY way to try to get through all of this. The reason for this analysis and contributions by the posters was for the therapy. They needed to get through the shock and dismay of not only B/J but what Cowlip had done.
I'm just letting you know what it was like back then so you don't think I'm having a rogue opinion now.

OK - citing the post. This quote is from https://jane2005.livejournal.com/31291.html. It is authored by Larissa. It is in reference to a death threat that Jane and Larissa were levied as a result of analyzing 503 and 504 and daring to criticize Cowlip and the other writers. This quote is written before the analysis of 505.

Jane has a whole bunch to say, as well. But, I quoted Larissa b/c she says just about everything I want you to be aware of. Cowlip resented the female straight audience. They mocked us. I told you when I met them they were displaying open contempt for us. Just read what Larissa wrote. She's correct in everything she said. 15 years can do a lot to mellow Cowlip's feelings. But, please don't think it wasn't very, very REAL at the time.




So, again, I'm really loving all of your insight. I always registered the impact on Brian's face from Michael's words but I never really saw it going anywhere - and that confused me. I mean, next shot, he's in Babylon barring Brandon from the club. I always wondered what that impact was going to do to him.

If I remember from the other thread you were saying that it hurt too much for him and he wishes he never loved Justin and it was Michael's words that really brought that home for him. Yes?

THAT goes back to what I was saying about the end of 102. I know you don't agree but I believe he was already in love w/ J (and it was the very next night) and he was so confused by his emotion. That's why his gaze lingered as Justin drove away and why he wasn't in the mood to get down with George Goodf*** (which of course, he reconsidered immediately).

The song Sleep by The Dandy Warhols was playing. I found an interpretation of the lyrics that basically said you're NEVER going to be with Justin except in your dreams. So sleep forever, Brian. And, I was saying that we always give Justin credit for being so brave and direct in his pursuit and love of Brian. But, if Brian KNEW he would never, ever wind up with Justin that early on (as evidenced by the music) then it was brave for Brian to allow himself to succumb to all of it anyway.

And, I believe it was Denise who pointed out that they played Sleep again in the opening of 513.

So, yeah. Now, I get it. Brian regretted ever getting involved. He should have to stuck to his guns way back at the end of 102 and never claimed Justin in 103.

So, then it really did have to take a bomb. If Brian wished it all never happened in the beginning of 510 and then the blast made him do a 180 and declare his love then the writers just can't help ripping him to shreds.

And, even in the beginning of 513 BEFORE he went through his domestic metamorphosis and BEFORE he knew Justin had the opportunity to go to NYC he knew it was never going to work out.

Well, that's just too much angst. I can't take it.

But, thanks so much. I really get frustrated when I can't see what they're trying to show me.

I broke the rules and posted twice to bump this thread. I found a perfect quote from 12 years ago describing Cowlip's treatment of the fans and wanted it to be read so you all know the truth and what was REAL back then. You can erase this post at your will but at least the thread was bumped.

♥ Gale's Fragile Beauty ♥

I wanted to continue this from the Fashion thread regarding Brian's unkempt wrinkled shirt... as well as respond to your other info. Seriously though...even unkempt Brian is beautiful.

I totally get why you think that.

This part is where he wanted to hurt Justin for hurting him. He tried to make it appear that he didn't care, but he couldn't quite pull it off. Even his comment about fing an "artsy type", came off as pathetic to me. I think Justin even rolled his eyes and instead of acting jealous, was sort of disgusted with Brian's act.

IMO...at this point, Justin was acting like a pretentious little "twat" (as Brian uses as a term of endearment...which perplexes me). UGH...as we've talked about before...treating him mom as a sub-human, got me so mad. Suddenly, everyone (Mel, Linds, Michael, Deb) were treating him (Justin) as a mature man and not the kid they've treated him like for 5 seasons. Was this just because he dropped Brian? Were they all so happy and respectful ...because Brian didn't have him anymore? Brian now could be alone and not have anyone to love him? I mean, throughout all of the seasons, they sure made Brian feel like that...and with all of the professed love for Brian, they treated him like a emotionally repressed child and verbally abused him to his face and behind his back whenever possible. They seemed genuinely relieved that they were right.

Please know...this is how I feel and does not represent that I believe my truth is the truth. It's just my opinion. I love that we have different insights. And I love this discussion with you. You are bringing up all sorts of emotions that have been long repressed.

Wow...see? We interpret these things differently...which is a GRRR-eat! thing.

Just for analysis...in 102, as I said before, I don't believe Brian has fallen in love with Justin yet...but I believe there is a possibility, which is completely confusing for Brian. As far as the lyrics...perhaps he's been asleep all of this time, and Justin woke him up and he's like Hey...this is dangerous stuff right here. It scares the hell out of him.



BTW...I adore Father Good-FK and the look Brian has on his face after George GF gives him THE look.



Posting the 513 clip and infinity shot here as well...for analysis...and because I love B/J in this scene.





I don't think Brian EVER regretted anything with Justin. At that point, since it was Michael narrating...I wonder if the song just didn't to him as well, or maybe about the bombing and everything just changing...everyone growing up (except Brian of course) Which leads me to :34 of that video...Michael literally scoffs at the idea of Brian getting married. Like it was a joke.

So...Brian loved Justin and would forever.

Thanks for posting that link to Jane's journal. I need to save it to my memories. I have some other's saved, but relating to the B/M - B/J shipper wars and the fandom splitting. And I have a paper about CowLip backpedaling everything they said in the past. So I know it happened. They must have hated Randy back then...although in Austin they made it seem like a love fest.

Remember this little interview from the S5 premiere party? Randy was definitely over it all. So sunshine and roses it was NOT.



It's a LOT of angst, but I hope you remain with us and share.

brianitesince2001

ITA about his beauty. YUM under just about any circumstances.

I totally get why you think that.

I was about to write that I've never really seen Brian TRY to hurt Justin but then my mind drifted back to S1. Never mind! He never tried to hurt J during the Ethan thing and J was sooo much shadier and nastier to Brian than this last break up. I dunno. I'm still confused by Brian's appearance/behavior.
The only line I appreciate is the one about the "artsy" type b/c I THINK he was referring to being with Justin. LOL


A) and THAT'S the Greek Chorus in action. Justin's acting intolerably but the chorus is "singing" his praises. So, we're supposed to say, "HEY!! Justin's awesome here. Even though he's a sh**. As I mentioned in one of my rants the Cowlip chorus do this to us with almost every character, B/M the most IMO, but we all get told to feel the opposite of what our lying eyes are telling us.

B) yeah, again kudos to the writers. I can't make heads or tails of WHY Justin would have a problem with Tuck. It's just that with so much angst happening and that Tuck thing going nowhere, really, I don't even watch. But, STILL, that laugh he gave in the diner was sexy to me.

Of course. I'm spouting/vomiting all over this board. It's ALL just my opinion. I'm LOVING the insight you're bringing me. We may not always agree but this discussion is fabulous!!

OK - we need to open a few more threads here b/c our discussion is leading us to sooo many issues I'd like to analyze in further detail.

1) Question for you: when do you think the first moment was when Brian actually DID love Justin?

2) I LOVE what you said about Justin waking him up. I agree with that, too. I believe this is the very, very first time Brian's ever been in love in his life. He's gone with people for a while (115 - there was a CEO I ********d for a while. He wanted me to wear diapers while I spanked him.) but I don't think he's EVER been in love.

2a) as evidenced in the 101 statement "But I don't remember any more." We see that as the show opens he's so haunted and jaded already. Who knows why? But, I attribute it to his mother being a frigid b**ch and his father being an abusive drunk PLUS the promiscuous life he'd led up to that point. (There are times when we can see that lifestyle jading Justin. Now we can say that B and J are cut from different cloths - which is correct - but I still think it had eroded Brian somewhat as he enters into 101 and our viewing.)

3) I think Brian is SO confused b/c this feeling of romantic love is so completely alien to him. And, scares him to death. I think he felt vulnerability instantly. He didn't realize it until 102 staring after Justin drove off. But, how terrifying for Brian!!!

4) Cowlip/Postoff mentioned that we were watching a relationship develop and go through hurdles when usually once a relationship begins in a movie or on TV the credits roll up the screen. I completely disagree. I think for five seasons they were ********ing around. I don't mean that sexually. NOW, POST 513 is when their relationship begins. How could they have a full and honest relationship when Brian can't fully actualize/admit/vocalize and thus act his feelings?
So, yes, he fell instantly in live IMHO - but had no idea what in the H*LL to do with it until the end of 510. And, THEN, he still couldn't balance it. That would've taken some time. But, of course, Cowlip wouldn't allow us time or even a normal conversation where Justin guides Brian through this and shows him how to balance his love and being himself.

5) that bring me to THIS...Brian's been wanting to change for at least two seasons and his friends wouldn't let him. You're SO right. They WANTED him to be alone. They treated him so hatefully. So, what if at the end of 211 Lindsay just shut her pie hole and allowed Brian to stay at the wedding??? What if in 315 Michael shut his pie hole and just let Brian apologize humbly and accepted Brian for who Brian was trying to become???? And, and, and...what if, just what if, Justin didn't even have a conversation with Brian about this new depth/dimension Brian was experiencing but JUST ALLOWED BRIAN TO CHANGE AND BECOME A NEW BRIAN - the Brian that Brian had secretly and maybe even unconsciously wanted to be for a long time.

Yes. Brian/Gale was quite delicious in 101 & 102. I liked George. I thought he was a mensch.

6) Brian gave Justin the speech "I've had you yada, yada. Justin's had to give this speech to Daphne and to the kid from the frat party in 208. MAN, JUSTIN IS VICIOUS!!, especially to the frat party kid.
How did Justin get to be sooooo jaded when HE pursued his "love" after the first hook up and he actually GOT the guy. Where is his vitriol coming from? Brian probably had to give that speech more than once in his years considering how "legendary" Brian's ********* are - and he wasn't great with Justin but he was relatively tender and even gentle at the end of the conversation.

Also, Peter Paige mentioned in an article that we were supposed to bear witness to and be there with Justin to experience B/J's first time so we understood why Justin put up with so much of Brian's crap.
UM...Hello!!?? Aren't all of our "first times" like that???
The "first times" obviously were the same on QAF b/c both Daphne and the kid from the party reacted the same way as Justin did!





Could you just die when Brian hesitates and then says, "beautiful." UGH. Just put a fork in me. I'm done.





7) I never took that scoff from Michael as anything other than disbelief. But, your take sure does fit into the "we want Brian to be alone and un-happy forever" theme his "loved ones" perpetuate. I mean, honestly, Brian. I love you to pieces but your taste in friends is just so questionable. Lindsay wanted to make sure that Brian didn't get Justin and then SHE takes off with HER mate and two kids to Canada. Michael wants to make sure that Brian stays up on that pedestal where he's forever young and beautiful (two unachieveable goals in the human realm) and ALONE. Then, he gives Brian a huge smooch with his wedding ring in full view then gets down and goes to his husband Ben and smooches HIM!! So, Lindsay and Michael get it ALL and Brian gets zero.

**It hurts tremendously to take the actors' words for how they think the future went. But Gale said there's no middle ground for Brian. Either he wound up really, really up or really, really down. Then Gale went on to say he thinks Brian's really, really down. (paraphrasing)**

No words. No words. Agony. Despair. But, no words.

8) Not to keep harping on this but I just want to understand. You wrote something about, and maybe it's all just an act? Did I read that or did I imagine that you wrote that? What does it mean?

9) OK - you don't think Brian regrets letting Justin into his life. I respect that. But, then what does the song about not having a lover you have to love about? I know you explained it but I thought that's what you meant. After reading your words, looking back on the 102, taking the words from Sleep, etc. - I really do think Brian wishes he never met Justin.

I have to tell you there are times I wish he never met Justin, as well. If the ending were just slightly changed then I wouldn't say that. Brian and Justin have a GREAT LOVE because it was sacrificed. My issue is the scenario is completely unnecessary to have to be a GREAT LOVE.

A legit great love??? Humphrey Bogart and Ingrid Bergman in Casablanca. The free world depended on it!! Their love didn't add up to a "hill of beans" in comparison. LMAO!! B/J - not so much. They could easily have continued their relationship while NEITHER had to sacrifice.


That's my only hope, Deborah. Their love went on forever. They traveled back and forth. Brian expanded Kinnetik to NYC. (Brown's HQ'd in Chicago. Brown has to go to Pitt or vice versa when they do biz. What's the big deal about bringing his clients to Madison Ave?) I even think since Brian's so out of the box he wouldn't even go to Madison Ave! He would set up his offices - perhaps another batthouse - right around the West Village. That locale is a well known gay area, it's not far from Chelsea, East Village, SOHO, Tribecca, and just southwest, I think maybe a mile or two, from Madison Avenue.

So, how do I un-see what I read about Gale's take on Brian?


Yeah. Randy had the nerve to speak up about his character being only a plot device. I DO NOT blame him. The video below was deleted so I couldn't see it but I get the idea. I know the poor guy was done.

10) what did this paper say???? I'm dying to know!! I know they actually wanted B/M to get together in the end. It was so truly morbid I never typed it out here. But, they wanted to be true to the UK version AND THEY HATED US so their take was that Justin goes to NYC, Ben eventually...can't even type it...succumbs to his disease, and B/M wind up together. ISN'T THAT JUST SICK AND NASTY????????

Now, suddenly, they're like, of course, B/J saw each other!! They just didn't have a conventional marriage like Michael and Ben. Wherever would you get the idea that they didn't???? Um...in 501 when Brian knew Justin was going to be in LA longer than expected he cancelled his trip. Um...in 513 when Justin says they're going to see each other all the time Brian says neither of them know that.

OH. I so loathe them.

11) I also read on Jane's journal that Brian was actually modeled after a homosexual sex idol in a few novels. These novels were written pre-HIV and AIDS era so this character was hyper sexual and care free about it. I'll have to go back into the journal to get specifics.
Anyway, that's one of the reasons given that they stripped Brian of EVERYTHING b/c they didn't want any sort of connections for him. They wanted him to be like the anti-hetero hero that WOULD be young and beautiful forever.

The problem is this: I DO believe they created an adaptation of Mr. Darcy. They just didn't mean to do it.

In developing Mr. Darcy they didn't hold true to the untouchable sex idol/god they planned to create. They were inconsistent AGAIN and the character showed feelings, hurt, love, and growth. So, at the end their effect backfired. They wanted us to see an icon up on that pedestal but all we saw was a broken and tattered human being. And that's why we're all here so many years later unable to get over the agony of what they did to Brian.

The vid was deleted. I know how over he was of the whole thing. But, I'm scared to even hear what he has to say in that vid. Yikes.


I can work through the angst. You guys are helping me tremendously. I'm just losing patience for the writing and character development. So, if I walk away that's the reason. It's not because of my beloved Brian and hence my beloved B/J.

♥ Gale's Fragile Beauty ♥

I have to run, but... sorry I forgot to respond before.

So...the scene with Lover, I Don't Have To Love, what I meant is it just an act that Brian is acting cool, unemotional and uncaring? I think it's his M.O. to pretend like he's OKAY no matter what.

Regarding the song in relation to whether he wished he'd never met Justin: Have you ever been hurt or had something horrible happen, that in the moment you wish you were never in that place to begin with? Perhaps this was one of those moments for Brian. Like a child who doesn't get his/her way and tells the parents, "I hate you!"

Oh...and here's the direct link to Randy's little interview. Please watch it. You can really tell he was totally over Justin Taylor.

https://youtu.be/dTgHmsToW6E

brianitesince2001

Oh, yeah. He's done. He's also jumping slightly prematurely on the G/R thing. Do you see that? The interviewer's talking about B/J and he's denying G/R. A discussion for another thread and another day. LOL

Thanks for the clarification. I see what you mean. I thought you meant the angst was an act. Yes, he's ALWAYS playing it cool. But, wrenchingly, we see the look of pain on his face, always, before he recovers and puts on the public persona.

Well, was it Shakespeare who said?? Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

I guess that speaks to the human element of this world. I'm in agreement with that statement. Love and loss are two things that forge who we actually are.

But, it's like Brian had a crystal ball at the end of 102. The song tells us that. The repeat of the song in the 513 opening confirms that. He KNEW he'd never be able to be with this kid.

It's the futility from the very start PLUS how they stripped Brian of every single thing that makes me wish he didn't meet Justin.

I mean, EVERY episode we see Brian in pain, and not just simple pain - gutt wrenching angst in some of them. He's constantly persecuted and attacked. I just feel that all the pain and growth was invalidated by the ending of the show.

There are a lot of people who say that the ending was good b/c Brian can now love. OK.

LOVE WHO??? or is it whom??

WHO'S THERE TO LOVE????

Michael????? Oh, heaven help us.

BRIAN'S ALONE.

BRIAN'S ALONE WITH HIS HEART SPLIT IN TWO AND SPILLED ALL OVER THAT PEDESTAL.

OMG. I can't. The angst. It hurts. Brian didn't just sacrifice his love for Justin. He essentially sacrificed his life for Justin.

Brian doesn't have a life post 513 UNLESS HE STAYS WITH JUSTIN.

I've said it before that Justin could move on and love again but Brian can't. Brian can have companionship but he'll NEVER be able to love like that again, ever. In Brian's words (from Cowlip) It's only time. Cowlip meant that B/J's love was outside the space/time continuum.

Justin, OTOH, is young. Had no problems professing and processng his love from the start. He can mourn, put his space/time transcendental love for Brian in a very special place in his heart and soul, and find somebody else. His Brian love will be forever exquisite and irreplaceable but he can feel real and true love again.

Brian will never and can never open his heart and bare his soul and vulnerability to another human being other than Justin ever again.

♥ Gale's Fragile Beauty ♥

One more thing...one more thing...

Some of my favorite fanfics are the ones where Brian is in love with another man post-513. It was Justin who opened that possibility to Brian and he now knew he was capable of giving and worthy of receiving love. Of course, B/J end up together in the end, but I just love the dynamic of Brian being exclusive with another man.

Please don't hate me.

brianitesince2001

Not hating you!! Please convince me that Brian can love again!! My problem with fanfic is that it's hard to capture Brian's voice/character. When it's OOC it drives me up a wall.

Do the authors of these fanfics set up to be believable? Do you BUY that Brian's in love with somebody else? If he's found love elsewhere how does he wind up back with Justin?

Is his returning to Justin believable???

Please tell me this is really possible and I can buy it.


I want to continue enumerating the topics I want us to discuss if you and/or anybody else is interested:

12) Did Brian say I Love You to Justin in ep 101?
I know Justin tells tall tales. I just recently called Justin a liar and a cheat.
However...Brian was completely smashed. He destroyed his loft - something we've never seen him do again. (In my 13 reasons why B/J fell in love instantly I went into great detail about Brian's behavior that night and the next morning as proof that it was instant love.)
So, if Brian was so out of his mind high and given his behavior the next morning could he possibly have said it????

Justin goes into an awful lot of detail. BRIAN himself says he wants Justin to remember this always and no matter who you're with I'll be there. WOW! Powerful, romantic, possessive, love words.
Then, Justin says Brian told him Brian wanted to stay inside him forever.

AGAIN...UM...BRIAN SAYING THIS TO A TRICK????

So, now we have Justin explaining in detail about the ILY.

Daphne says, "Does he love you?" Justin says (paraphrasing) he said he did. It was right before he was about to shoot. He let out a groan like I've never heard before. And that's when he said it. He said I love you. Then, he leaned in and kissed me.

Now, in 108 in Justin's living room he negates what he said. He told his father that Brian never said he loved him. But, maybe he negated what he originally heard b/c there was a larger issue on the table. He was in the middle of fighting for his way of life with his father. It wasn't exactly the moment to debate whether or not Brian loved him. HMMMMM????

But, here's the thing. Brian said some unbelievable things that WE heard that night. Then, Justin reported some things that we didn't hear but that Justin allegedly heard. Then WE SAW with our own eyes Brian turn toward Justin and go in for a proper and wonderful cuddle b/f he woke up and realized what he was doing.

Is it possible that in Brian's drug haze and amidst these other OOC moments he was having that night, AND the fact that he just professed to being bored and suddenly here was this twink from Heaven to cure him of that - do you think, maybe, just maybe Brian actually said it????

Again - soooooooo fed up with the writers. When Brian finally professed his love we could've been given a scene where they're lying in bed or on the floor and they start spilling the beans. It was ME who saved you from the Kip Thomas law suit. Justin, I went to your hospital room every SINGLE night and watched over you while you slept. You don't remember this but you told me you loved me the very first night we met, Brian!!

But, alas. That's what fanfic's for.


OK - I don't even know where I posted the bit about who Brian is supposed to be based on so I'm sticking it in here. I can't really re-post this directly due to plagiarism issues. A poster named Minion wrote this very eloquent piece but she took a bit from a poster on another thread named blkandwhtcat. Again, this all occurred 12 years ago so I can't ask people's permission to re-post. However, Brian is supposedly based on a character created by author John Rechy in "City of Night" and "The Sexual Outlaw: A documentary,". These books were written prior to HIV/AIDS (it says City of Night was published in 1963). If you want to read further about this click here https://jane2005.livejournal.com/30770.html. There are a couple of posts by Minion on the bottom of the 504 review. The titles of the posts are: QAF Ponderings Part 1 and QAF Ponderings Part 2. Again, worth the read, as are the reviews from 503 - 512 by Jane and Larissa. They make you laugh, cry, get angry - and boy, do they share my POV 98% of the time so I feel like I'm home when I'm in there reading!!

♥ Gale's Fragile Beauty ♥

I'm just picking little things out right now, but Jane is hilarious and always has been.

Quote:

Dear Mr. Monkey Novotny-Bruckner. Congratulations. Your petition to have your daughter, a 3 month old half baby chimpanzee half shrew, released from the zoo has been approved. You may pick her up on Friday at 3:00pm. Please bring a cage, a leash and plenty of bananas. The Pittsburgh Zoo.

Okay:

ILY: I don't believe Brian said ILY in 101. Justin is definitely lying. I also don't believe Brian is a bad juggler. If he was a juggler, I'm sure he was quite good at it.

Fanfic with Brian/OMC: Unfortunately, because Brian is in love with this other person, it must end in a tragedy...like death. Otherwise, Brian leaving that person for Justin would make him a cheat and Justin a home wrecker.

brianitesince2001

OMG - Deborah!! You KNOW of Jane and Larissa?? You said you were saving them to memories but I thought you meant, like, favorites.

PEED IN MY PANTS. BURST INTO TEARS LAUGHING SOOOOOO HARD ALL BY MYSELF at the Mr. Monkey Novotny-Bruckner letter. I feel so badly how they go after JR but it doesn't stop me from laughing!!

OMG - thank you soooo much for bringing it to this thread. The SECOND I saw Mr. Monkey I KNEW you went into that journal.

And, in case anybody else wants to enjoy the vitriol and bitter laughter please go to: https://jane2005.livejournal.com/30654.html

*wiping eyes right now from laughing so hard*

And, sorry, I've been telling you about it all this time not realizing you know exactly what it is.

OK - I guess Justin was lying. But, the details!! I mean that takes lying to a new level.

The fanfic - Oh. Yeah. Then, I guess I'll take your word for it and not delve into more tragedy. Just one question. When Brian's in love with somebody else - is he still the Alpha or is he less dominant given how Cowlip cracked him open like a walnut and his heart's now on his sleeve? Inquiring minds wanna know!!