SojournHeart11

From a production standpoint, I loved how they blended the two scenes together. But I totally agree, what they did to Brian this season is terrible. They built up Brian so much in S4 and gave him so much growth, only to make him look and sound pathetic and stunted in season 5, in contrast to his seemingly maturing friends.

But to be honest, all the characters had their hits and misses this season. For instance, it was very childish how Melanie, Lindsay, and Michael carried on over custody, how they each wanted a piece of J.R. in their lives. Fighting over a baby essentially. That's pathetic too.

I think all but a select few characters suffered personality-related malfunctions this season.

♥ Gale's Fragile Beauty ♥

Yeah...we always focus on Brian's regression, but not one character was without S5 flaws. Even the ones who SEEMED to be mature, it was not sincere...IMO.

Take Michael for example: I felt like he started behaving like he did in S1 when he met David's friends.

Giotto

You are right Just thinking about his behaviour with JR.. :faceplam: that poor little girl

SojournHeart11

Usually whenever Michael was trying to impress one of his companions, he adopted this very pronounced bravado in which he would seek to impress them with, while alienating his friends. It's an annoying little trait he had, and I always wish he'd drop it.

Giotto

that always makes me think, if that is something that would have turned out in a different way, if it was played differently from the actor..

I don't know if it makes sense, but it sometimes makes a difference in the meaning to other people, if it is pronounced differently or different gestures are made..

Sia

Do you think Brian and Justin could be still together post 513 when both actors Randy and Gale said they think BJ broke up post series?

Giotto

Hi Sia and a very warm welcome here

In my eyes they sure had a future together, no matter what the actors said. I guess they both just wanted to close the whole topic I think.

Do you read fanfics? There are some really good ones that continue after 513

♥ Gale's Fragile Beauty ♥

Welcome Sia! I'm happy that you're here with us!

This is my opinion, but of course they're still together. Although they may have been apart physically for a while, they saw one another whenever possible.

You just can't take a love like that and end it so suddenly because one is pursuing his career. They had come too far. They didn't "break up" when Justin went to NY. AND...I don't believe Brian went back to how he was before he met Justin. When Michael said "some things aren't meant to change", it seemed that he wanted Brian to remain the perpetual "over the hill club boy", but I don't believe he did that.

Do you read fan fiction? There are so many wonderfully written fics that are post-513. So many of us believe they would still be together.

As to what Gale and Randy said, they were both tired by the end of the series. Randy gave his opinion based on how he felt about Justin and Brian as if they were real people. I think Dan and Ron knew if Brian and Justin remained together more than anyone else, since they wrote them.

At the ATX Festival in Austin, TX a few years ago...Ron and Dan said they'd still find their way back to one another. Have you seen that panel discussion? It's really good, if you have time.

QAF ATX Panel 6-5-2015 Playlist.

Sia

Thanks so much for your answers and video from conference, i am relieved now a lot. I was devastated and spent hours crying ( many people interpreted end as breakup), was afraid to rewatch the show, could not stand having my heart broken again. But now with this different perspective, i will be able to watch again. thats so encouraging what Ron and Dans said about BJ future, including house in provence 😃 i am reading now fanfic from plumsuede Framed, help my aching heart a lot.

I also would like to ask if Dan and Ron somewhere explained why Justin was not present at Babylon reopening, especialls if its only 1h flight from NYC.

I loved Cowlips explanation of "its only time speech" that it was inspired by Shakespearew sonnet, thats so romantic ❤ it was the "never again" that made really sad, but now i understand its rather declaration of eternal love.

♥ Gale's Fragile Beauty ♥

Plumsuede is one of my favorited fanfic writers, ever! Enjoy! Beyond The Yellow Brick Road is brilliant!

A lot of people felt so much better at the conference. Not to mention how adorable Peter, Gale and Randy were. It was wonderful sitting in that audience.

I merged your three posts. If you can, rather than double and triple post, please edit additional info into one post unless someone posts after you. No big deal, but it's a Fan Forum rule.

SojournHeart11

Not a doubt in my mind. The reasons for them getting back together far outweigh the reasons they wouldn't.

♥ Gale's Fragile Beauty ♥

😢

https://youtu.be/VYb3M8Cnp3c

Sia

I tried to look for some explanations why Brian was left alone dancing at the end and most conclude that Brian was perceived by Cowlip as SYMBOL of gay community. So they intentionally did not put Justin to final scene because their main message of the show was not about B and J relationship, but about gay community in general. Brian dancing alone was the message to the world that gay society survives. Put Justin in that final scene, even in background, and focus becomes Brian having growing into Justins partner. And Cowlip wanted to show Brian grown into his own skin, into being a man in his own right, and celebrating "we will survive", victory against all haters. If Justin would be there it would "cheapen" the moment, he would be perceived as Justins partner. Other characters could be dancing with their partners because they were not perceived at that moment as symbols of gay community, it was always Brian who had this role even during whole show. AND Michaels words to Brian before that some things are not meant to change were refering to babylon always representing gay community, and that Brian is still young and beatiful meaning that being commited and growing older didnt mean he lost his identity, he is and always will be inspiration for gay people. It was not meant to signify Brian is left abandoned to his perpetual old lifestyle of peter pan. He reopensmBabylon not as his own playground but so that haters would not win and next generations have their chance to play. Of course i would love to see J and B together at the end but that was not priority for Cowlip and i can understand why, broader message was for them more important than romantic love of Brian and Justin. Not happy about it but it explains their motivation. And i really believe that was their intention, they just failed to transfer this message to viewers clearly. when i look at Brians face as he dances he certainly looks sad which is logical since his partner is gone (and even if he plans to visit him each weekend, it would make him sad they are not together all the time), but he is certainly not desperate, he is at peace with himself, does not go out and get wasted or **** as many tricks as he can to forget. And when I listen to words of song "proud", its actually were encouraging - Brian is selfaware that he can be proud of himself not only because how he looks and how gorgeus he is, but because he won most important victory that he was fighting and that ismagainst his inner demons- feels finally worthy of love. Thats why he can dance alone, because he is finally ok with himself, not out of fear or selfprotection, but because he is healed, he is confident of himself, and does not need drugs, tricks, E, even Michael at the complete end.

♥ Gale's Fragile Beauty ♥

You know what, Sia? This is the first time in all of my years on this forum, that I've heard that POV. Thank you so much. That's certainly a lot to think about and would make a fantastic discussion.

I really hope you decide to join other threads and seasons, because I think you will bring lots of new life to our board.

Sia

I will summarize again how I feel about the end, sorry if I repeat myself or most of it was already mentioned, but it helps to put it out. Clearly there are many explanations of the end but for me its about Brians victory – both as symbol of gay community and his personal. As much as I hate Cowlip for some of not giving as happy end we would prefer, I think they never intented to sabotage Brians character and make him desperate and abandoned by the end. They said themselves that QAF is about Boys growing into men and that by the end of series Brian overcame his inner demons. So why would they put him again back to his old lifestyle in the final minutes?
This is also only explanation for me because otherwise I would not be able to watch 513 again, it is too heartbreaking, but this explanation both makes sense for me and is hopeful. So now when I watch end of 513, I am celebrating with Brian his personal victory, his successful self-discovery. Just think about it - He is still inspiration, symbol for all gay people despite growing older, meaning he is still Brian Kinney as we knew him for 5 seasons , this will never change PLUS he became man, healed many of his internal injuries, overcame fear of love, found out he is capable of both giving and receiving love. Thats amazing.
And thats whats Michaels words also signify, they connect both of these aspects: „You will be always young and beautiful, you are Brian kinney…“ – meaning that love to Justin adds to his life and personality it does not take away, loving someone and being commited to someone does not mean he has to lose his identity, he is still inspiration for many and always will be. (and I firmly believe Michael did not want to drag Brian to his old lifestyle by saying „some things are not meant to be changed“, because even Michael is there in Babylon celebrating and dancing, so that would mean Michael would be sabotaging himself and his own accomplishments!)
Thats why he was had to be alone in the end-to show his victories he can be proud of. First being symbol of gay people, out and proud gay man, rebuilding Babylon for other generations and second recognizing himself as individual worth of loving, not lost in relationship with J but still together with him, knowing they have future together but first he had to be able to stand alone on his own two feet which includes being capable to endure pain of separation.
Thats also why he is left alone in the bed naked when Justin disappears. Its first time during whole series he is left like that whole body alone and naked for all of us to see. He is vulnerable but at peace. And it demonstrates that finally he is able to accept the pain that goes hand in hand with joy of feeling love. And Brian had to learn this – handle the pain that accompanies any love without losing himself in self-destructive mode (he does not use any of former defense mechanisms, drugs, booze, tricks or shoving Justin off completely out of his life). So Justins departure was in certain sense for him also encouraging, because it was a test for him to see that he is capable of loving with all it takes – even to feel the pain, his vulnerability and not killing himself in the process, because love is worth it. And so their temporary time separated will make both of them only stronger for later reunion. I believe by having Justin away Brian will even more appreciate their love and grown into commited lover, he has time to reflect and grow.
And one more note, about „it´s only time.“ – there are again more ways how to interpret it and what it symbolizes. Always during whole 5 seasons in Brians mind his thought proces was „its only time before Justin leaves me.“ In beginning of s5 Brian even says to Michael after he abandons his trip to LA its time for them (B and J) to get on with their own lives. But now by the end „its only time before we see each other“ –time will not destroy them, thats again amazing transformation – Brian Kinney has faith and overcame his fear of time. I will always remember really poetic explanation in one of the discussions where someone said „By the end of s5 Brian succeeded to reposses his heart and gave it to Justin. And in love he found power to transcend time.“
So his final dance of Brian alone is at least for me celebration, its Brian triump – because he WON against all the odds. So in this sense its happy-end, more subtle than we would like to but it is, Brian is not simple character, has been always very complex so maybe he even deserves more complex end than Michael and others. (but of course I am still crying like crazy while watching final minutes of 513, feeling Brians pain is too much).

Sorry for one more post but I found this on other forum and need to quote it here regarding "Its only time" speech, Brian wanted to say he will never give up even if he has to wait for Justin for eternity :-). Replace "never again" in his speech for example with 100 years, which is practically same as never again, and it suddenly has completely different tone. So here is the quote:

"A 513 Epiphany!
I think I may have just had a Queer as Folk epiphany!
We've all thought Brian's line in 513 "It's only time" was a bit odd and evasive and some even thought he was weird for not seeming to give a **** when he next saw Justin.
What are the chances that this is an intentional reference to the lyrics of the Magnetic Fields' song "It's Only Time" which came out in 2004?

Why would I stop loving you
a hundred years from now?
It's only time.
It's only time.

What could stop this beating heart
once it's made a vow?
It's only time.
It's only time.

If rain won't change your mind,
let it fall.
The rain won't change my heart
at all.

Lock this chain
around my hand,
throw away the key.
It's only time.
It's only time.

Years falling
like grains of sand
mean nothing to me.
It's only time.
It's only time.

If snow won't change your mind
let it fall.
The snow won't change my heart,
not at all.

(I'll walk your lands)
I'll walk your lands
(And swim your sea)
And swim your sea

Marry me.
Marry me.

(Then in your hands)
Then in your hands
(I will be free)
I will be free

Marry me.
Marry me.

Why would I stop loving you
a hundred years from now?

If it wasn't an intentional reference, it ****ing well should have been! (And I choose to believe it was.)
And if it was, why hasn't anyone said so sooner?!
Either way, this may be the single most perfectly QaF-prescient song ever written. And it's an absolutely beautiful song. Go listen to it."