soulmatejunkee

The final season!
If there is anything you want to talk about from that season, here is your chance! Whatever it is, just say it and let's have fun!

Manu9

Thanks for starting, Steffi. Your title is better than the one I had suggested

Should we change subject or carry on with the kids and Canada stuff?

I can say probably I have very strong feelings about this because I was the first to be disappointed that the girls left and believe me, it wasn't about Brian. I really found it sad that they left everything, their family, behind, for an unknown future.

soulmatejunkee

Hope the title is okay

Sorry, but how Mel and Linds handle their relationship and break up or reunion is absolutely none of Michaels business. And I can see that no one was there before they told everyone because nobody knew... so how can they be there for her. But after it... there was no reason for Ted or Emmett not to be there for her and/or for Linds.

She probably would have. As much as I remember she freaked out when he started to tell her that she taught his son the wrong lesson if she's moving away. And all I said is that I understand that.

When Brian said "Gus stays" she just sighed and was confused, just as everybody else

I think it was more the surprise effect. I really think none of them expected Brian to be the one that says "no". But on the other hand I think they totally expected Michael to say "no" and I think she would've try to convince him, I think she already had a plan in mind for that - at least I would have. But I don't think it would've ended in a fight.

Michael's in a different position as Brian is. And the girls know that. I think even Brian knows that.

Never been said. Actually I doubt that Brian shows up very often. But I think Lindsay shows up at his place from time to time - with Gus. Or they meet at the park.

But that exactly how it sounded. "Guess I was busy working" - what else than "Yeah, I missed that, I wasn't around" would that mean?

He had. His parents are the girls. We've been told over and over again that this was the plan. And so his parents are around him and he knows who his father is and he's free to see him or talk to him whenever he wants. He's not a damaged kid.

I think that Michael will keep seeing J.R. regularly, even in Canada. As we know, Toronto isn't that far away. They drove there by the bus in the end of Season 4. So...

And I think if he really wants to change something, Brian can also use the bus or the plane to see his son.

I don't think it's that bad for the kids to live in Toronto instead of Pittsburgh.

I don't say it's the best thing for them, I just said it won't cause them any damage. And it helps that they're little. It's harder for older kids.

That depends on Brian. As I said, if he really wants to change things, there's no reason to not do it while Gus lives in Canada. Actually, it could be a reason to change things for the better, because when he comes to Canada he will stay longer than an hour - he could easily spend the whole weekend there, which would give him a lot more time with his son than he (ever) spends with him while living "next door".

So if Brian wants to get another chance - as he said - he could come to Canada two weekends every month. No loss for anyone.

Doubt that. What Brian told me was that it was about him.

Surely not but here I have to agree with Melanie. Just because Brian now decides he wants to play Daddy they have to change their plans? And who tells that Brian really changes? It's not the first time that he plays the "I want to be a daddy"-card. But so far he never changed anything. And now that they decide to change something he says "You can't take my son, because I want to be a daddy now" and they have to do what he wants.

The winner four years in a row of the disinterested dad award finally decides he cares about his son, so we can't leave?

I agree with her here.

But then - as I said before - the whole Canada thing was totally rushed and should've been planed better and so there would've been more time to tell anyone and to work things out.

But he still can. Who says he can't? It's just Canada, it's not Europe or Australia!

Just as it was right from the start, that's 100% up to Brian. No matter if Gus lives in Pittsb. or in Canada. Moving doesn't mean that the kids won't see their fathers anymore, that's not the plan.

As I said, what's her choice? Brian had the control in the beginning, he could've make the rules. And as I said, their relationship changed a lot after the first break up. There was barely a fight between them... at least I don't remember one.

And I think Melanie had already dealed with the fact not having any rights during that time, so that - if Brian would've offered her the rights with the condition to be a weekend father - she would've been confused but in the end would've accepted it.

Not in the beginning of Season 1 - totally not! But by the time he gave her the rights, she would have. I agree she wouldn't be the biggest fan of that condition, but I think she would have accepted it, since she had to.

It's just one thing we heard. From their talk and the way both reacted it was pretty clear to me that Brian wasn't around. Doesn't mean he hadn't seen Gus since months, but he was not around.

And in 4.14 he told us that he wants to spend more time with his son... blah blah blah - but Melanie now has to jump on it when he says that again?! Not even I do.

I don't think he's a bad parent, for me he's no parent.

That doesn't make him a parent.

We can't say what he knows or not, since we barely know anything about Gus. I just make it up from the way that scene in the park is portrayed.

As I said, it started when he said that they teach them the wrong lesson, so he told her to run away from bullies - which I have to agree with her, she never did. Melanie is a fighter.

Here they were running out of shock and fear. But that's not what Brian said. She didn't freak out when he said he wants them to stay. Actually I think if he would've been honest, that he doesn't want to loose Gus and Lindsay, Melanie wouldn't have freaked out.

When? Give me an example?
In Season 1, yes, totally. But what was about Brian between them in the later seasons. As much as I remember there was nothing, but maybe I forgot. So tell me.

They fought in front of the kid, yes, I know that. But I can't remember her badmouthing Brian.

When did she take his money? When did Melanie asked Brian for money?

He didn't sign, so... no rights for him because of this.

I agree about that, especially during Season 1. That was really extremely there with them and the money and Brian. And I didn't like that.

But after Season 1, when did Melanie asked Brian for money? Or when did she ever told him that he doesn't have any right to see his son? Or on general, that he doesn't have any right on the kid? (Which actually he told her!) She never cut him out on anything.

Wouh wouh... Lindsay had every right on J.R. That girl was her daughter just as it was Michaels and Melanies. And that was exactly what Melanie wanted to have for Gus! And it was Brian who didn't give it to her and not vice versa! No one ever said that Brian is not allowed to have any rights. I'm sure there could've been done something, he could've done that when he decided to give Melanie the parental rights. He didn't. How is this now her fault?

She definitely not perfect. But I think she's much better than Brian.

So Lindsay is... what? A selfish bitch I guess, right? Because she moves with her, she convinces Brian to let them go.

Okay, I don't think that Melanie is the best lawyer in the world, really not, but kicking someone like Brian out of the game is not very difficult. He's everything but a responsible parent.

So ... there's a gay playboy with an alcohol and drug abusive behavior and thousands of clubbing nights and trick who decides that after 5 years he wants to get parental rights.

Maybe if Brian's lucky and gets a gay judge with the same lifestyle. Otherwise, no.

When was it said that Brian constantly helped them with money?

Manu9

It's too late to reply to everything, it wold take me too much time and it's already 1 am. But I'll reply tomorrow. But this one thing I wanted to reply now:

Brian doesn't win the prize for best dad, but I honestly don't think we can say he was disinterested either. He went to the hospital when Gus was sick, he went with Lindsay to kindergarten to get him a place there, he gave money to help raise him, he saw him with Lindsay regularly. A disinterested father was Craig, not Brian. There's a big difference. Brian always cared about Gus and made sure Gus was ok, even if he wasn't always present.

galesgirl645

I think we also have to take into consideration why Brian didn't want to have as much presence in Gus's life such as that he was afraid he turn into his father that was his biggest fear and it is why he wasn't as present in Gus's life as he could've been but Brian was there for his son when he needed to be.

soulmatejunkee

True
It's just the meaning behind her words I can understand. As I said, for me Brian's not really a parent. I never said and never will that when he's been asked for help, he's there, always. But he barely asks by himself and to me that's what Mel means.

Manu9

I don't think that means he's not a parent though. He's not the best parent, but he still is one. He is interested in his son, he sees him regularly even though not so much, he helps raising him, he cares about him, he plays with him. Those are all things that qualify him as a father and decent one, in my opinion.

About the fact he doesn't ask by himself, I think mostly he doesn't not because he doesn't care or he's not interested, but because he doesn't trust himself to do the right things. He gave Gus to Mel and Lindsay to raise because he thought they would be better parents, that they would protect and love Gus and be good parents as he believe he never could be. I think mostly, he was insecure about how to deal with Gus. Also, I think he respected the girls' roles as parent. But once they asked him his blessing, they gave him a right to say no but then they didn't respect his word.

soulmatejunkee

See, if we analyze everything Brian's thinking we surely come to the result that he wants to be and could be and loves etc. etc. But this is nothing I ever questioned. I also don't question his feelings toward his son, even though it might sound like it. I don't.

But compared to what a parent/father should be/do... he doesn't win. (No doubt that it could be worse)

And then something like this comes up and he starts to critism their way to raise the kid or what they teach him. And that's what freaks Melanie out and this is what I can understand.

As I said, I think if he would've talked about his true reasons... I don't think she would have freaked out.

HyperPumpkin

This is an important point

He is a parent, IMO. He is the biological dad and nothing can change that. Blood is thicker than water. Biological bond is more powerful than adoption, at least if you know who your biological dad is.
And like I said before, he wasn't perfect. But he loved Gus and really cared about him. When he said "no", he wasn't only thinking about himself but also Gus. Moving is never easy, at least not for a kid.

Manu9

I think what speaks the most is that when we see Gus and Brian interact, we are showed that Gus loves Brian, which means he's not such a bad father.

Anyway, Mel would have freaked out even if Brian had picked another reason for wanting Gus to stay. If it had been for her, I'm sure she wouldn't have even asked his opinion.

HyperPumpkin

Gus/Brian moments are gold I love the scene where Brian is playing with Gus with choo-choo train in 502(?) and when he's going through with Gus what he'll have to do at B/J rehearsal. The way how Brian is with him.. It's love.

I agree She wouldn't have let Gus stay with Brian, no matter what.

Manu9

I don't think Brian even really meant for Gus to stay with him. Everybody knows that would have never been possible, the girls would have never accepted it. It was a way to say they should stay, according to him. But no matter how he would have said, Mel would have never agreed or even understood, I'm really convinced about it.

HyperPumpkin

Maybe not permanently, but even for some time. I see a slight possibility that he would have been able to take care of Gus for a while. And of course he also wanted Mel and Lindsay to stay in Pitts, he didn't want them to go.
Nothing would have convinced Mel about staying. I think she would have wanted to go even if Lindsay didn't want to.

WildRose

I think Brian never intended to raise Gus full time, he knew his home was with M/L, but he wanted to be more involved and make up for lost time, because he wasn't always around for him in the past (even though it wasn't always his fault ).
I think it's sad M/L took away his chance to be there more for Gus, because with them leaving for Canada just as Brian wanted to be more involved was... idk... like a slap in his face.

galesgirl645

I think where there's a will there's a way so I'm sure even with them moving to Canada, Brian will try to be there for his son as much as possible.