AuburnGrad

Bad choice of words, imo. Sure, you can disagree...I can disagree. People view situations differently; it doesn't necessarily mean any of us are wrong. Like I tell my students, you can get facts wrong, not personal opinions, and this situation seems to me to be a personal opinion given the context of the scene.

Do I wish Michael had kept his mouth shut? Yes. Do I think he was out of line? Not really. Had Michael been malicious about it, placing blame on Justin on purpose, then yeah, I'd probably think he was out of line. I, personally, did not see Michael's actions as malicious. What I saw in that scene was the realization of the magnitude of the cancer...it is a very overwhelming realization. He broke down. I do agree that Michael has a "Foot in the Mouth" disease that can be quite frustrating, but perhaps it is genetic? Sometimes it flares up when he is angry, and his words come out badly. But in this case, I think it was an honest slip out of fear, best friend to best friend. I agree that, providing there was time, Michael could have given a heads up to Justin...but we don't know the timeframe, and really...where would the drama be?

BTW, just for the record, I am not a B/M or B/J shipper. I like all three characters, and their relationships.

Someone mentioned the moment when Justin asked Michael if he knew about Brian's cancer. Accusatory vs. Worried The impression I got was that Justin felt that Michael knew and the look on his face was that of a pissed off person. I thought, at first, Justin was accusatory in his tone and facial expressions, but when he realized Michael did not know, it turned to worry because, as Justin said...if he did not know, and Michael did not know, then who did? As for Justin telling Michael he (Michael) doesn't love Brian, or however he put it, it pissed me off. I agree...sloppy writing. I could not believe it even came out of Justin's mouth.

Personally, I felt Brian went too far in his anger with Justin. While I do think Justin should have confronted Brian upfront instead of going to Michael, Justin could not help but hear the message on the machine. Brian overreacted in a major way, but again....where would the drama be otherwise? I feel like I'm watching Days of Our Lives only with better looking men.

As for the rest of the episode, Debbie and Horvath's scene was the most poignant of the night for me. I've been waiting for Debbie to break down and knew it was most likely coming. I love Sharon Gless, and I knew she would do that scene justice.

Ben and Michael bore me to tears, and if Ben gets jealous one more time over Michael's success he will be crossed off my list forever.

The "I missed you" scene was precious. Loved it.

ETA: I forgot about Linds and Mel...and I suppose there's reason for that. Their scenes lately have been forgettable for me. Why, why, why can't they have better storylines? I just don't see it with this artist guy, and if they go where I think they are going with this storyline (I'm unspoiled), I'll be highly disappointed.

Lexie

This is what I was responding to. You make it clear that you don't want to discuss on the board at large, because you feel like you've been pegged and generalized. All I'm saying is that is is impossible for the rest of the board to understand what you're saying and where you're coming from if you don't post anywhere else but the B/M board. Obviously, you don't have to post anywhere you don't want to. You can choose to stay in the B/M thread forever, but don't bitch about being pegged if you're not willing to share your opinions anywhere else. It's only natural to clump people's opinions, depending on where they post. Sure it sucks, but that's how it works.

~ Liz ~

Fine. Bad choice of words. I was pissed at the time I said it and, obviously, not everything is going to come off the way I meant it. I think I explained everything clearly in my last post. And I think this is the fourth time now I've said it now, but I DO NOT believe Michael was being malicious. Just stupid.

LuvDJ, I'm not trying to force you or anyone else to post outside the B/M thread. If you don't want to, that's your choice. I guess it just reminds me of a problem we've had on this board before - the B/Mer's feeling unwelcome everywhere but their own thread. I know a lot of B/Jer's felt it an affront, that we were seen as bullies. Of course you're welcome. It's ridiculous to assume otherwise.

We used to have a thread dedicated to both B/J and B/M - a friendly place where issues and discussions concerning both were welcome, but it left the actual shipper threads free for just appreciation. It only lasted a couple of pages because none of the B/Mer's at the time were willing to participate and they segregated themselves again into one thread. It was pointless to 'debate' (or whatever) with people who agreed with you, so it died. If more people are interested, perhaps something like that could be reopened. It would certainly give the non-shippers, or fans of both 'couples,' a place to be.

Lexie

I'd be down for something like that, Liz. Sounds like a great idea to me. I'm pretty sure everyone knows that B/Jers aren't going to change B/Mers minds and vice versa, but it's fun to have debates. One of my biggest pet peeves is that people can't have harmless discussions. Just because people don't agree about something, doesn't mean it can't be discussed rationally, without things getting all fired up and people getting emotional.

Lexie

P.S Sorry to be annoyingly responding to every new post, lol - but I'm at work and BORED out of my mind. Thank god I'm outta here in 15 more minutes, I'm starving!

yadayadanarknark

408 is officially one of my favorite eps of all time.

one of my favorite parts was when ben and mikey were fighting... then they cut to hunter in his bed all distraught. he didn't even say anything but it meant alot, obviously he is really worried and cares alot about them. they are a family, it's so beautiful *is dreamy*

also... the whole "brian gets hurt/sick, justin takes care of him" fantasy is coming into play. you can't say you haven't had THAT particular fantasy... i just hope their relationship is okay. i want them to hold hands like lovely lovers again.

AuburnGrad

Great. We agree on something. ...and I didn't imply you said Michael was malicious, or at least I certainly did not mean to. Yes, he was stupid, but when it comes to matters of the heart, most of us can be.

And I would love a thread where we can have a good, intellectual debate.

yadayadanarknark

y'all it was obvious he wasn't being malicious, he was high and crying. it was an emotional moment, and at least he told brian about how he had told justin not to tell. i just wish he hadn't told bri that justin called the hospital.

kristy21

I haven't posted here in ages but i just wanted to say that this past episode was amazing! I cried during much of it. This season is awesome.

~ Liz ~

I've got it! Robin Thomas. An American. He played Angela's ex-husband, Geoffrey, on Who's The Boss. Phew. Now I can sleep.

Lexie

Ah yeah. That's why he looks familiar.

I feel like I'm in the minority, but I kinda like Sam - I know he's an ass about women, but it's interesting that he's inspiring Lindsay. I'm curious to see where this storyline goes.

Vintage

I like Sam..but, I don't like where this is going.

Andalusia

That was a great episode. I felt so sad for Brian... I could rewatch the scene between him and Justin, when they return from babylon and when Justin take brian clothes off : that was the cutest scene ever !!! The way he kisses his bare skin, his little sob that Brian doesn"t hear cause he nearly faint... God ! I nearly cried

And my hear broke when Brian throw justin at the end of the episode. I nearly hated him for that (and God know how I love Brian ). His pain blind him. Justin was just trying to do what he thought was the best. When people suffer and are afraid (here, Justin is afraid of losing Brian), they do stupid things : that's human.

This season is terrible (amazing and painful and ... ) but it's really the fall of Brian. It's so difficult to see him being down and down...From what I understood, this sort of cancer is curable in 99 %... but since I sanw he James Dean metaphore, I'm starting to think they'll kill him when the show'll finish... maybe at the end of season 5. Touch of darkness...

galela

´

interesting how you consider it the "fall of brian" & i consider it *the* growing experience & open-his-eyes-experience.
i really wonder where they're gonna go with this storyline. it has a lot of potential considering where brian's persona is gonna go from there & how he's gonna deal with it.
and like you said, they can say he's cured in s4 but it can lead to his death end of s5.

vertigo

I knew I'd come here and find people complaining about Michael (again). It's amazing how many give annoying old Debbie a pass (I can't stand her anymore) yet find Michael intolerable.

And for the record, I like Justin and Michael. I used to be a M/B shipper but I think the characters have moved on too much for that to ever happen now. And Justin has been growing on me recently. So I felt bad for both characters in this episode.

If any character was "out of line," it was Brian--for #1, not telling anyone about his condition, and #2, for throwing Justin out.