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Old 11-10-2017, 08:17 AM
  #226
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Regarding his friends: Brian acts like he doesn't care but not only does he care he's scared. He's scared they won't accept him if he grows. All the times Lindsay and Michael force him back into their ideal of who he should be, which is a young, immature,selfish Brian, he lets them. He stunts his own growth because he can't handle them not accepting him and leaving him.
not just scared that they don't accept him if he grows.. he is scared that he isn't accepted if he shows his true self to them with being scared and vulnerable

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WE CAN GET INTO WHY JUSTIN FELT THAT MICHAEL BETRAYED HIM WHEN MICHAEL DID THAT WHENEVER PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO DO THAT. B & M WERE FRIEND SINCE THEY'RE 14 AND JUSTIN KNOWS MICHAEL'S IN LOVE WITH BRIAN. WHY WOULD JUSTIN FEEL MICHAEL WOULD HAVE ANY LOYALTY TO JUSTIN OVER BRIAN???
Michael always saw Justin as a threat, and I don't mean in the way as Michael is still in love with Brian.. I'm not really sure I still see that in season 3..I think they grew out of that relationship.. he knew that the man who gets Brians heart, will replace him in his position as best friend and he made it painfully clear that he was on Brians side.. although he tried to talk to Justin about it.. Justin didn't want Michaels input in his way of treating Brian.. and when he broke up with Brian, Michale wanted him gone.. that's why he told him to leave Liberty Avenue.. I was quite surprised that they both continuesd to work on the comic again without further discussing..
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Old 11-10-2017, 01:59 PM
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not just scared that they don't accept him if he grows.. he is scared that he isn't accepted if he shows his true self to them with being scared and vulnerable
That's exactly what Moon and Master was about. Brian was tired of the facade and of not being who he truly had wanted to be for a long time - a vulnerable person who wasn't in control all the time. With Justin's support he FINALLY told his friends to stick it where the sun don't shine and he was going to be who HE wanted to be.

Spoiler season 5

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Michael always saw Justin as a threat, and I don't mean in the way as Michael is still in love with Brian.. I'm not really sure I still see that in season 3..I think they grew out of that relationship..
I respectfully disagree. In 212 when Michael found out Brian slept with Ben that was SUPPOSED to be the end of that dynamic of their friendship. Michael watched as his fantasy of Brian walked out the door.

But, the writers ran out of storyline so they had to continue the love/jealousy thing with Michael.

In 309 Justin shows Michael the comic's cover with JT giving Rage a bl-w job. When they're at Woody's Mikey's whining again. He tells Ben in a huff that nothing's wrong. It's just that JT's giving Brian...I mean Rage...a bl-w job. Ben says and how does Michael...I mean Zephyr feel about that?? And, did you see Michael's face when B/J were dancing in the beginning of 309? OH YEAH. Michael's still in full steam love with and jealousy over Brian.

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he knew that the man who gets Brians heart, will replace him in his position as best friend and he made it painfully clear that he was on Brians side..
Of course he was! That's why I can't understand why Justin thinks that Michael owes Justin loyalty. That was a load of crap!!

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although he tried to talk to Justin about it.. Justin didn't want Michaels input in his way of treating Brian.. and when he broke up with Brian, Michale wanted him gone.. that's why he told him to leave Liberty Avenue.. I was quite surprised that they both continuesd to work on the comic again without further discussing..
First of all, God forbid Cowlip show us these guys communicating with each other.

But, secondly, Brian was working both of them to continue the comic. I think they both realized they didn't have to like each other but Rage wasn't something they should walk away from. So, they just put their heads down and worked - without discussing ANYTHING!! Thanks, Cowlip.




___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

OK - new question because I have SO many questions re: season 3.

Brian agrees to let Justin intern at Vangard but says, "don't expect any special treatment." Justin says, "I never have. WHAT THE WHAT???? What does that meeeeeeeeannnn? (I'm whining like Mikey.) Brian's given him special treatment since night ONE. I don't understand. Can anybody help me? Is there a symbolism or code or deeper meaning here that I'm missing?

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Old 11-12-2017, 12:24 PM
  #228
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I've read in the fandom that the office scene in 308 when B/J reunite shows love pouring out of both of them.

I see LOOOOOVE in Justin's eyes for sure.




But I really see only hurt and caution in Brian's eyes. There are soooo many scenes where LOVE LOVE LOVE's in Brian's eyes. But I just can't see it here. Brian's love's in his HEART at this moment which is why he doesn't hesitate to take Justin back. But, he's just scared and vulnerable here, I think.




That's why I was so happy to see him smiling like this just seconds later...

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Old 11-13-2017, 08:31 AM
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You are right.. Brian was holding back at that moment.. he showed his love when he was sure about it again.. Justin instead had to pull all registers.. he wanted to convince Brian
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Old 11-13-2017, 01:15 PM
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You are right.. Brian was holding back at that moment.. he showed his love when he was sure about it again.. Justin instead had to pull all registers.. he wanted to convince Brian
Yup. That's why he kept his 11:00. Brian was still guarded. Brian never once used Justin's leaving against him. But, it did take a bit of time before Brian was able to let down his guard.

In 310 Brian's STILL insecure. They're at Babylon and Justin says he has to work on something and leaves. Brian follows Justin with his gaze with a slight question on his face.

It's only the next morning when he gets his insecurity out of the way with a half-way snarky comment to Justin when he seems to make a shift and trust Justin more.

(Justin said he'd been up all night working on a project and Brian says, "Well, when you're done will you pass him on to me?" When Justin says it's not that type of project Brian shows RELIEF. It's fleeting but it's there. After that moment Brian's walls came down.)
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Old 11-14-2017, 07:59 AM
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Yup. That's why he kept his 11:00. Brian was still guarded. Brian never once used Justin's leaving against him. But, it did take a bit of time before Brian was able to let down his guard.

In 310 Brian's STILL insecure. They're at Babylon and Justin says he has to work on something and leaves. Brian follows Justin with his gaze with a slight question on his face.

It's only the next morning when he gets his insecurity out of the way with a half-way snarky comment to Justin when he seems to make a shift and trust Justin more.

(Justin said he'd been up all night working on a project and Brian says, "Well, when you're done will you pass him on to me?" When Justin says it's not that type of project Brian shows RELIEF. It's fleeting but it's there. After that moment Brian's walls came down.)
You are right he never blamed Justin and he never rubbed it under his nose.. in my eyes this whol thin brought them closer together then before in season 3
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:13 PM
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You are right he never blamed Justin and he never rubbed it under his nose.. in my eyes this whol thin brought them closer together then before in season 3
Deborah and I were reading a live journal (written 12 years ago) that was helping them with their pain. I agree with about 98% of what they said but they made a few comments I don't understand - and I can't ask them since it was written so long ago. LOL

I think B/J were an equal team upon their reunion. The journal states that Justin lost his power when they got back together.

I see many, many reasons that Justin decided to go back to Brian. The journal doesn't understand why he would go back to Brian.

Any thoughts?
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:38 PM
  #233
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Yup. That's why he kept his 11:00. Brian was still guarded. Brian never once used Justin's leaving against him. But, it did take a bit of time before Brian was able to let down his guard.

In 310 Brian's STILL insecure. They're at Babylon and Justin says he has to work on something and leaves. Brian follows Justin with his gaze with a slight question on his face.

It's only the next morning when he gets his insecurity out of the way with a half-way snarky comment to Justin when he seems to make a shift and trust Justin more.

(Justin said he'd been up all night working on a project and Brian says, "Well, when you're done will you pass him on to me?" When Justin says it's not that type of project Brian shows RELIEF. It's fleeting but it's there. After that moment Brian's walls came down.)
I feel Brian remained insecure for quite some time, even after they reunited. It's always that twinge of worry nagging him from the inside about "Will he leave me again?" He always seems to expect the worst.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:23 PM
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I feel Brian remained insecure for quite some time, even after they reunited. It's always that twinge of worry nagging him from the inside about "Will he leave me again?" He always seems to expect the worst.
Hi, Denise!

When else was he insecure with Justin after the reunion? I'm asking b/c I can't recall any examples after 310.

What are your thoughts on Justin having power in the relationship after the reunion and his reasoning behind getting back with Brian.
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Old 11-15-2017, 07:35 AM
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But I really see only hurt and caution in Brian's eyes. There are soooo many scenes where LOVE LOVE LOVE's in Brian's eyes. But I just can't see it here. Brian's love's in his HEART at this moment which is why he doesn't hesitate to take Justin back. But, he's just scared and vulnerable here, I think.

http://www.qafcaps.com/gallery/album...ormal_1019.jpg
I agree with this. And this...although I'm not sure why this would have been the deal-breaker.



I felt uncomfortable with this as well...especially after Justin told Brian he knows what to expect from him. Justin acted like a little submissive rent boy, who was using Brian because no one else would take care of him.

"You can start...immediately"



Sorry...I'm in a mood.
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:53 AM
  #236
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I agree with this. And this...although I'm not sure why this would have been the deal-breaker.

I took this line to be symbolic. "You're never to play violin music in my presence again"...you're never to lie, be deceitful, betray me, etc. AND don't ever mention the fact that this dude ever existed. I'm good at denial and you'll join me down that river. ETHAN NEVER HAPPENED. Let's continue our lives together.

(Also, Justin asked Brian in 220 if Brian would care if Justin left. By Brian saying this about violin music he was also telling Justin how incredibly hurt he was that Justin DID leave and that Brian cared very much.) Cowlip packed a lot into that one little sentence.

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I felt uncomfortable with this as well...especially after Justin told Brian he knows what to expect from him. Justin acted like a little submissive rent boy,

"You can start...immediately"

Sorry. I don't get what you're saying at all. And you KNOW by now I'm not being snarky. I'm just not understanding...

Submissive rent boy?

Justin took charge, obtained the internship and rendered Brian speechless with his mouth hanging open. THEN, Justin got the better of Brian and tricked him in Brian's own game. DENIAL: We were NEVER in a relationship says Brian. Good, then my working here shouldn't be a problem...to further my education...which YOU'RE paying for. (I'm paraphrasing.)

THEN, Justin's about to do his leaving routine again and Brian stops him and tells him to stand up for himself, SPEAK up, and have some balls.

THEN, Justin says, "I've been doing some thinking and I've decided you should take me back." He's DEMANDING that Brian get over his crap and let Justin back in. Brian laid out a road map for Justin to do that but still, Justin did it. That's POWER.

And, Brian was the sub, here. Despite his wariness, distrust, hurt, trepidation, worry, he'd been waiting for Justin to come back since the day he left. Justin demanded to be back with Brian and Brian was powerless.

So how is Justin getting up to close a door Justin being a submissive rent boy? Because they were doing all kinds of double speak (b/c the writers were nothing but cryptic and vague in 308) and in order for Brian to save a shred of dignity they equated the conversation to the internship rather than their relationship?

Brian's older and was a partner in the firm. Justin's younger and was an intern. That was just their natural status. That doesn't make Justin submissive.

AND, moving forward they were an awesome team. They took down Stockwell together. At the end of 314 they were careful not to let Brian be on the same step as Justin outside Woody's. He had to remain two steps down so he and Justin would be at the same height (equality).

Notice that he DID step up once, then remembered, so he had to scrunch his head so it wouldn't be higher than Justin's. (I can't find the pic that shows him stepping up and crouching his head down.)

(Justin's actually taller and appears larger in this series of photos. Justin's in control.)




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who was using Brian because no one else would take care of him.
STEP AWAY from Monogamous and Across the Hall. PUT THEM DOWN, take two steps back, and there won't be any trouble. LMAO

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I'm at a loss, here. I can't even give any arguments b/c I don't understand the statement. Brian took care of Justin the whole time they were broken up. It would've continued like that. Why would Justin need to get back with Brian to be taken care of?

I was confused about this in Jane's journal, too. She couldn't figure out why Justin would return to Brian. Um...Justin loved him? Saw his wonderful heart? Saw how much Brian loved HIM? Saw that he made a mistake going off with Ethan? ETC...


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Sorry...I'm in a mood.
How's your back?

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Old Yesterday, 01:37 AM
  #237
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I took this line to be symbolic. "You're never to play violin music in my presence again"...you're never to lie, be deceitful, betray me, etc. AND don't ever mention the fact that this dude ever existed. I'm good at denial and you'll join me down that river. ETHAN NEVER HAPPENED. Let's continue our lives together.
Yes I guess that was it what Brian wanted to tell Justin with that sentence
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Old Yesterday, 06:36 AM
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Yes I guess that was it what Brian wanted to tell Justin with that sentence
Yeah - I'm still confused as to why people think Justin lost his power when he got back with Brian. Justin was so dominating. Brian was putty in his hands.
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Old Today, 06:04 AM
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I agree with the symbolism completely. I was just posting pretty pictures.

Anyway...yes...I agree that Justin was taking back control, but as with the 11:00, Brian was showing Justin, that although he'd take him back, he wouldn't let him have all of him. He was too hurt.

In the scene I said it looked like Justin was acting like a "rent boy"...perhaps that description is not accurate, but if I was trying to get back with the man I love, and they basically said, 'okay...start working'...it would have made me feel cheap. Closing the door and come on over and blow me. Yes...I realize that the scene wasn't supposed to be set up that way, it became veery artsy and romantic...but Justin closing that door and walking over to Brian looked really uncomfortable to me.
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