fmaldy24

Yes - love is really the best thing you can have he really finally sees that and the looks between them is so cool I guess that is why people would've liked it to finish at the end of season 3 too - everything between them is so good - it's like he finally believes in Justin's love and they're happy Life was all good

brianitesince2001

Hi!

Season 3 had so many hills and valleys. They used a LOT of symbolism, especially at the end of all the episodes. I STILL can't understand all of them. But, for some reason in the past few weeks I've been able to work some stuff out that's been a mystery to me since 2003.

I could never understand (b/c I'm a thick-head) why after Justin left him Brian immediately denied to everyone that he had ever loved Justin, ever had a boyfriend, and even said TO Justin in ep 308 "we were never in a relationship." I mean, in 206 they established rules *cough relationship cough* and when he got back from landing Brown he said "your partner just made partner."

Well, I'm sure you all understood this for a long time but I finally got it. Brian was so incredibly hurt that the only way he could sort of, kind of, deal with it was to deny it ever happened.

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OK, next...

I could never understand the whole "orange is the new blue." I get it in terms of orange is a warm color and we must warm Brian's heart. This was also emphasized by Mikey explaining that Ice Tina froze Rage and it was only JT's blow j that would melt it. THEN, we were further hit on the head with a hammer when in 309 Justin gives Brian the blow j under the brand new orange light - and if we STILL didn't get it Brian verbalized that it was just like the comic book.

OK - got it. But, WHY???

In 309 Justin's in Red Cape defending his sexually provocative cover of Rage. Mikey says, "Art imitating life?" Justin then says, "You were right" that Brian loved him and Brian showed Justin that every day. Even though he never said it and even though he never will.

So, if Brian always loved Justin and showed him that every day then why did Brian's heart have to be melted???

WELL, I FINALLY GOT IT!! I always thought this was something that Brian needed to have done to him by Justin to fix an inherent flaw in Brian (and I resented that given the love that he showed Justin and it was Justin who flew the coop). UH UH. THIS had to be done due to the DAMAGE THAT JUSTIN DID TO HIM BY LEAVING. Hence the song WEAPON. I always loved the song and I always understood that it meant that Brian was taking a huge risk in letting Justin back in. What I didn't understand was that not only was he letting Justin back in but Justin was "melting" the ice around Brian's heart that JUSTIN PUT THERE so now Brian was extra vulnerable. Of course, this vulnerability led to further character growth as evidenced in later S3 episodes. But it had initially occurred to undo the carnage Justin left in Brian's heart.

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OK, next...

At the END of 309 I was always a little disappointed he took an eleven o'clock. When I first saw the episode in 2003 I lost my mind. We'd been waiting so long for the make-up and 308 was kind of anti-climactic, enigmatic, filled with symbolism, and the sex was chopped to bits. So, in 309 I thought after the Weapon blow j they'd spend some time together.

BUT, NOW I GET IT!! Brian was really, really burnt by Justin. It was going to take time b/f Brian made Justin more of a major part of his life. And, he did that very shortly afterwards. Brian never said ONE word to Justin about what Justin had done to him and Brian took him back with only one condition: no violin music. So, I can't fault Brian in the slightest for his one stand which was that it would take a while before Brian could go back to what it used to be.

And, that's why he told the trick something like it's hard to describe given the limitations of the language and conventiality of most people's thinking, yada, yada, "let's just say he's the guy I f--- more than once."
Again, that shattered me in 2003 after we had heard "partner" come out of his mouth. It confused me this time around. BUT, FINALLY I SEE THE LIGHT!! it was going to take some time before Brian could get back to the status of boyfriend/partner/significant other...whatever other terms there are for that.

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OK, next...

The end of 304. I could never understand why Brian immediately went to take the bracelet off after Justin just put it on. We know that the bracelet left the bldg around 219. (Editing mistakes kept it around for a second in 220. [and then, a HUGE editing mistake allowed it to make an appearance in 301] but the bracelet was GONE by season 3.) So, I understood why he took it off for that reason. But, I thought he'd leave it on b/c Justin just put it on.

And, this is another one I'm sure you guys figured out immediately. I'm just so dense sometimes. AH HAH!!! He just wanted to feel Justin's touch and keep Justin there with Brian for as long as possible. If that was the amount of time to tie on a bracelet then so be it.

I know that Brian's question about Justin getting back to his boyfriend was really about Justin getting back to Brian. BUT THAT'S ONLY B/C THE FANDOM LET ME IN ON THAT LITTLE SYMBOLIC DITTY BACK IN '03. OH, I didn't even understand that he left the loft door open to let Justin know he could come back anytime AND when Brian looked back it was b/c he half expected Justin to be there. I KNOW ALL OF THAT FROM THE FANDOM. So, please bear with me if I state the obvious. I'm very slow on the uptake. LOL

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OK, after that amazingly sweet scene in 304 the fandom thought they'd be back together by 305. We were so saddened that a reunion was four whole episodes later. AND, that in 305 the venom was flying btwn B/J in the backroom. My heart broke. And, I didn't understand the need for it.

AH HAH!! Suddenly it dawned on me. As I said the other day about Brian in the 220 loft confrontation as Justin was trying to tell Brian it's not all about the sex Brian was telling Justin it's not all about the romance.

Well, that was Brian's lesson to Justin in the backroom in 305. "You think he should sacrifice his career for a piece of blond boy ass? Is that your idea of true love, Sunshine?"

Of course, Brian put the idea in Ethan's head b/c Debbie told Brian if Ethan signed the contract Justin would be out of the picture. But, Cowlip couldn't resist a little bit of symbolic lesson learning in the same episode. Brian's telling Justin the bloom is off the rose with Ethan. Real life is invading Romance and the two don't always mix. Brian's life is exhausting but it can be maintained. No illusions. No having to lie or cheat. No painting the world romantic. They love each other. They f--- each other. They f--- other people. They don't force a commitment. They're there b/c they want to be. They deal with REAL life as a team. But, life with somebody like Ethan? The other shoe was always going to drop landing on Justin's heart and breaking it.

There's also a lot of foreshadowing in Brian's statement but I can't spoil.
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End of 306...

Brian walks away from Justin in Woody's. Suddenly, Justin's head moves to one side of the frame and is cut off. Then (quite nimbly I might add since it's with his "gimp"hand) Justin lights a match that's still attached to the match book.

I'M SUCH A STUPID!!! I couldn't figure this out for years!!

Suddenly, Justin understands that Brian might be onto something. That false promises and unrealistic expectations can lead to a monumental downfall. So, Justin suddenly sees the value of being with Brian. He's off balance in the frame because he's off balance because he's not with Brian. The lit match was pretty obvious. I'm just too dense. That flame he had for Brian is still burning!! Too bad there wasn't a lit torch lying around that he could hold!!

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308 in Brian's office after finding out Justin's the new intern...

Justin, again, appears to be off balance waaaaaay to the left and his whole head isn't showing. I get the meaning because of what I wrote above. And, I THINK I understand it in this scene. Though Justin seems to be fully in control of this conversation (he even corners Brian with Brian's own words about them never being in a relationship - love it!!) I THINK he's so acutely off balance here b/c he's more aware of it. He's in close proximity to Brian and a lot rides on whether or not Brian will allow him the internship.

ANYBODY HAVE THOUGHTS ON THIS ONE??

♥ Gale's Fragile Beauty ♥

Thanks for bumping up S3.

OMG, girlfriend...you've analyze this stuff to death! Why? I haven't put that much thought into this and it's giving me a migraine.

I could never understand the 309 11 O'clock because what Brian had with Justin was much better than a trick could give him, but Brian was not going to admit that to Justin. Plus in 308, Justin said, I know what I can expect from you and Brian certainly wasn't going to let Justin think things would be different, especially after he ripped his heart out.

The bracelet? There has been much discussion over the years, but I'm just going to see that scene as sweet. It would have been a mistake for B/J to reunite there. Then it would have been J cheating on E and we'd already had enough of J's cheating. B didn't want him that way.

B using the "blond boy a$$" line on J, was 100% a dig on 217 when Justin thought Brian should put him first, not caring that he would lose his job and means of supporting himself and Justin if he did.

Giotto

I was thinking the same thing when I read the post.. but I didn't have the time to reply before I left

But what really is impressive is the blue and orange connection I haven't noticed that.. of course I noticed the change of Brians light from blue to orange, but I didn't get the connection to Justins statement with "blue is the new orange" pretty good one Beth

brianitesince2001

When Justin kisses Brian in the office after Brian told him to stand up for himself the scene changes to Mikey and Ben's apt. The "fade" to the next scene is an orange lamp that's RIGHT SMACK DAB OVER BRIAN'S FACE. The melting had already begun!! LOL

I noticed that leading up to and a little beyond the "orange is the new blue" there are always some orange things in the B/J scenes.

Also, notice in season 4 the same light is there but it's NEVER on orange. Sometimes it's off, sometimes it's a white light, once it was purple, and sometimes it's blue. Have NO idea what that's about.

LOL - Deborah, I analyze this stuff so much b/c it's so ambiguous. The dialogue is soooo sparse, Gale adds a whole other dimension with his expressions, and what dialogue there is is so symbolic that I can't help it. I'm desperately trying to get to the bottom of this.

My aim is always the same: Did Brian follow Justin to NYC? Does Justin love Brian as much as Brian loves Justin? Is Brian OK now?

Deborah - Yup. Brian would've preferred Justin at the end of 309. But, he was taking a stand.

In 304 - what other discussions have been brought up about the bracelet's significance?

Good call on the 217 reference about blond boy ass. Again, Justin's getting to understand that RL sometimes takes precedence over romance.

fmaldy24

I always thought that Brian didn't really want his 11.00 after he had Justin in bed with him and he would've rather had Justin there and stayed there with him enjoying life. I felt like that because he says goodbye to Justin and turns around to go back to his bed but he really seems to drag his feet and not look like he is happy to be going up to his 11.00. He seems to really be like well he's here but he doesn't want to be there you know.

SojournHeart11

It's definitely an ego thing. Though Justin was his partner in every sense of the word, emotionally, physically, mentally, he still felt as though he was the ultimate stud of Liberty Avenue. It's just a title he prided himself around having, which was not always good to see. What he did with the other guy was unnecessary as it was meaningless. Still, Brian always felt he had something to prove.

fmaldy24

He felt like he had to be that stud and it was a thing he saw as part of himself and what made him feel worthwhile I think. I still don't think he looked like he was very keen to have him there and was feeling like maybe he was doing cause he had to but didn't want to - but had to be the stud

brianitesince2001

I think added to his ego and having to be the stud is the fact that he was soooo hurt by Justin. As the episodes advance we see B & J spending more time together. But, at the end of 309 Brian's wound was still sort of fresh. Brian never punishes Justin for leaving but Brian sure does back peddle. Brian says he never loved Justin and he was never in a relationship. Brian tells the 11:00 that Justin's the guy he f--- more than once. That's a huge backslide from "your partner just made partner." Brian's defenses are up - and I don't blame him.

brianitesince2001

311 - Brian sets up Stockwell at the GLC. Justin calls out his own name and Jennifer holds up Justin's pic and she says my beautiful gay son who was bashed and left for dead. It was declared a simple assault rather than the hate crime that it was. (I'm paraphrasing)

Do you see Brian's face?? Do you see him wringing his hands together?

I wonder if Stockwell was in front of him when Jennifer was talking if Brian would've knocked him out. I know violence isn't his weapon of choice, hence the clever and elaborate set up, but still...Brian looked murderous at that moment.

Any thoughts?

brianitesince2001

LOL - it seems I keep posting on top of myself every two days. Nobody wants to discuss season 3??

Well, 301 - 306 are some of the most heart-breaking Brian faces in the entire show.

"Brilliant. Dazzling."


"I hope you get what you want."












Justin: "F--- all you'd know about romance." That really stung Brian.

♥ Gale's Fragile Beauty ♥

Sorry about that, Beth.

Sometimes posting discussion is a challenge when we get busy. But thank you so much for keeping the threads updated. Believe me...we're still reading. And THANK YOU for posting the pictures. Isn't it addicting?

Yes...Brian was devastated by Justin. It was evident, at least to us. If anyone really payed attention to him, they may have tried to help him.

Do you think anyone else saw it? I think Lindsay may have understood just a little.

brianitesince2001

I was just joking. It's hard for people who love Brian or B/J to discuss season 3 when EIGHT episodes are of them apart. That's what I was talking about.

OMIGOSH. I know everybody's busy. And, I know I'm still in analysis mode trying to crack codes and make sense of the symbolism.

BACK TO QAF:

I don't know. Michael and Lindsay both said in the diner in 301 that Brian loved Justin but why would we expect his friends to actually help him? Personally, I think his taste in friends sucks (excluding Ted, and sometimes Emmett).

Also, why would we expect the writers to actually show that his friends want to really be there for him?

You don't KNOW how many pics I posted after you showed me!!!

Giotto

OMG! Beth you found great pics showing Brian soo emotional and I really really can'T understand why his friends couldn't see it when we all did Although I guess Michale did.. thinking about the scene in Season two in the Mickey comicbookstore.. he saw Brian suffering with Justins behaviour and tried to comfort him.., but that didn't hold on to season 3.. Ijust wonder why.. .. you are absolutly right about Brians bad choice of friends.. but honestly.. you don't always choose your friends just because they all can see right inside yourself.. sometimes other things are important and you take the rest of the behaviour.. and honestly.. you get used to some kinds of behaviour.. sadly, and accept it, because they take you the way you are, or in Brians case want them to think who you are..

and never think we don't want to discuss with you but Ireally want to take my time to answer or discuss in the season threads the way you deserve it, and not in a rush between work but I do read your posts as soon as I see them even if Idon't answer imidiatly

brianitesince2001

OK, the world might end now b/c I AM about to give Mikey credit. He DID see Justin and Ethan, DID tell Brian, and DID try to comfort Brian in the comic store. You're so right.

Regarding his friends: Brian acts like he doesn't care but not only does he care he's scared. He's scared they won't accept him if he grows. All the times Lindsay and Michael force him back into their ideal of who he should be, which is a young, immature,selfish Brian, he lets them. He stunts his own growth because he can't handle them not accepting him and leaving him.

WE CAN GET INTO WHY JUSTIN FELT THAT MICHAEL BETRAYED HIM WHEN MICHAEL DID THAT WHENEVER PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO DO THAT. B & M WERE FRIEND SINCE THEY'RE 14 AND JUSTIN KNOWS MICHAEL'S IN LOVE WITH BRIAN. WHY WOULD JUSTIN FEEL MICHAEL WOULD HAVE ANY LOYALTY TO JUSTIN OVER BRIAN???

OMIGOSH, I PROMISE it wasn't about not wanting to discuss with ME it was about not wanting to discuss SEASON 3. Season 3 is really difficult. Most of Brian's angst is related to Justin but what a number his family did on him in 304!!

But, thanks for the hugs, Daggi. You're very kind and sweet.