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Old 07-29-2017, 06:52 AM
  #61
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Yes thats how I felt it with the kiss. Justin feels quilty and its painful for both of them so goes to shower which is symbolic to cleanse himself. And I also felt he was extra mean to that guy because he knew he broke the promise he gave to Brian and wanted to show that it was nothing so he ridiculed everything to diminish the burden he felt about it.

That end is very painful when Brian pushes Justin away, even if he wanted to go for a trick and not to be with Justin why he had to push him aways so noticeably, amost with a force? Its almost like he is saying **** off....and the music playing is very sad. Its hint that things wont go well for two of them in near future.
Yes you start to see that things aren't going as well as they would like them to.

Do you think Brian is happy at the White party? I don't know if he is. I don't know if he's happy that Justin didn't go with him either. Even though he said to Justin it was ok I feel like he really wanted to be at the wedding or have Justin with him. He doesn't look happy at the white party to me as he catches the bouquet he is dancing alone without a trick and not smiling I think.
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Old 07-29-2017, 07:02 AM
  #62
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Yes you start to see that things aren't going as well as they would like them to.

Do you think Brian is happy at the White party? I don't know if he is. I don't know if he's happy that Justin didn't go with him either. Even though he said to Justin it was ok I feel like he really wanted to be at the wedding or have Justin with him. He doesn't look happy at the white party to me as he catches the bouquet he is dancing alone without a trick and not smiling I think.
At white party I dont see him unhappy, but somewhat surrendered. And he probably would not wanted Justin with him when he knew, Justin desired to be at the wedding. He himself should not have gone, he was not so keen about it but Lindsay did not give him other chance. Instead of accepting his gift and thus gently him showing he is welcomed, she send him away. And Brian could not argue against her statement at that point, because he never showed emotions openly. His sign that he wanta to stay was giving them the airtickets.
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Old 07-29-2017, 07:22 AM
  #63
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At white party I dont see him unhappy, but somewhat surrendered. And he probably would not wanted Justin with him when he knew, Justin desired to be at the wedding. He himself should not have gone, he was not so keen about it but Lindsay did not give him other chance. Instead of accepting his gift and thus gently him showing he is welcomed, she send him away. And Brian could not argue against her statement at that point, because he never showed emotions openly. His sign that he wanta to stay was giving them the airtickets.
I agree that he wanted to stay and Lindsay pushed him away again instead of taking the tickets. She says she wants him to grow up and not be like Peter Pan but then when he does make decisions like this she says no don't do that it's not you. She should've seen this as growing up and making good decisions.
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Old 07-29-2017, 07:28 AM
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I agree that he wanted to stay and Lindsay pushed him away again instead of taking the tickets. She says she wants him to grow up and not be like Peter Pan but then when he does make decisions like this she says no don't do that it's not you. She should've seen this as growing up and making good decisions.
It was strange reaction. But sometimes characters did completely unexpected things. I heard Cowlip speaking that always before filming they were reading scripts with actors to hear their opinions if something seemed to them like their character would not do or not say etc. But it seems they did not care sometimes about their opinions and still went with their own direction
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Old 07-29-2017, 07:35 AM
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It was strange reaction. But sometimes characters did completely unexpected things. I heard Cowlip speaking that always before filming they were reading scripts with actors to hear their opinions if something seemed to them like their character would not do or not say etc. But it seems they did not care sometimes about their opinions and still went with their own direction
Yeah I have heard that as well - that they would ask and then would go with their own ideas a lot and after a while the actors would stop saying things as they were so set in what they wanted the characters to do. But it did seem like sometimes they would hold onto ideas about characters or make choices that weren't the best ones for the characters or how they should've been (according to my opinion anyway )
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Old 07-29-2017, 07:52 AM
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Yeah I have heard that as well - that they would ask and then would go with their own ideas a lot and after a while the actors would stop saying things as they were so set in what they wanted the characters to do. But it did seem like sometimes they would hold onto ideas about characters or make choices that weren't the best ones for the characters or how they should've been (according to my opinion anyway )
Yes, unfortunately for us. But more and more I listen to Cowlip I understand that for them much more important is bigger picture of gay community and gay issues, political scenery etc. so they did not mind to sacrifice growth of the characters in name of these bigger issues.
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Old 07-29-2017, 08:03 AM
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Yes, unfortunately for us. But more and more I listen to Cowlip I understand that for them much more important is bigger picture of gay community and gay issues, political scenery etc. so they did not mind to sacrifice growth of the characters in name of these bigger issues.
Yeah I have also heard that they had major stories and ideals that they wanted to cover and knew where they wanted to go with these things. Sometimes though ideas have to change a little bit to suit how they have grown.

Like if you look at season 2 with Justin and Brian and they way they drift apart. Not talking to each other and going to Chicago and Vermont without each other, not even having a slight romantic gesture for Justin or a hustler for a birthday gift - all preventable and things that could've been sorted out between them but they wanted Justin to have a relationship with someone else who was younger and the romantic one.
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Old 07-29-2017, 08:13 AM
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Yeah I have also heard that they had major stories and ideals that they wanted to cover and knew where they wanted to go with these things. Sometimes though ideas have to change a little bit to suit how they have grown.

Like if you look at season 2 with Justin and Brian and they way they drift apart. Not talking to each other and going to Chicago and Vermont without each other, not even having a slight romantic gesture for Justin or a hustler for a birthday gift - all preventable and things that could've been sorted out between them but they wanted Justin to have a relationship with someone else who was younger and the romantic one.
Yeh, but breakup would happen sooner or later, it was necessary, the first one, I did not mind it so much although it was painful but it only brought them closer, and at that point Brian was still in stage were that time of behaviour was in line for him. Much bigger problem is breakup in s5....
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Old 07-29-2017, 08:21 AM
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Yeh, but breakup would happen sooner or later, it was necessary, the first one, I did not mind it so much although it was painful but it only brought them closer, and at that point Brian was still in stage were that time of behaviour was in line for him. Much bigger problem is breakup in s5....
I didn't like this break up either. Justin leaving with Ethan from Babylon in front of everyone at the party - very sad for Brian : (
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Old 07-29-2017, 08:29 AM
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I didn't like this break up either. Justin leaving with Ethan from Babylon in front of everyone at the party - very sad for Brian : (
I didnt like it either but I know that they resolve it and afterwards are even more happy together so it is easier to accept it. Seeing Brian in Babylon defeated is painful
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Old 07-29-2017, 08:32 AM
  #71
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I didnt like it either but I know that they resolve it and afterwards are even more happy together so it is easier to accept it. Seeing Brian in Babylon defeated is painful
It certainly is very painful. You can see in his eyes when he takes the mask off and looks at him like this is the choice you have made and it has hurt me but if that's what you want to do then I won't hold you back. It's like when they spend the last night sleeping together - no words spoken just Brian holding Justin
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Old 07-29-2017, 09:28 AM
  #72
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It certainly is very painful. You can see in his eyes when he takes the mask off and looks at him like this is the choice you have made and it has hurt me but if that's what you want to do then I won't hold you back. It's like when they spend the last night sleeping together - no words spoken just Brian holding Justin
Yeh, it makes me cry must thinking about it. Brian was sometimes so selfdestrucive I would say. But I know he could not behave differently at that point. For normal person its not hard to tell I love you, which was what Justim needed to hear, but for Brian it was something completely impossible.
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Old 07-29-2017, 09:37 AM
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What do you think about Justin dancing as a go-go boy and not accepting help from Brian straight away? I don't know why Justin lets the boss do what he does to him just to do the job but won't let Brian give him help.

Again Brian doesn't seem happy about it and doesn't like what Justin does but again lets him try things his own way. You see Brian watching him from the bar and he looks so unhappy that his man is dancing up on the stage.

Also, Justin doesn't seem to tell him about the incident either and just says a man knows when to ask for help. I'm not sure why he doesn't tell him except maybe he thinks that Brian would get really upset at the bossman? or mad at Justin?

Ok - one more point - I so don't like the underwear they wear throughout the show - especially when he's dancing on the stage. I don't mind the black ones as much but seriously they needed some different style or something Just my personal opinion

Last edited by fmaldy24; 07-29-2017 at 09:46 AM
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Old 07-29-2017, 09:44 AM
  #74
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What do you think about Justin dancing as a go-go boy and not accepting help from Brian straight away? I don't know why Justin lets the boss do what he does to him just to do the job but won't let Brian give him help.

Again Brian doesn't seem happy about it and doesn't like what Justin does but again lets him try things his own way.

Also, Justin doesn't seem to tell him about the incident either and just says a man knows when to ask for help. I'm not sure why he doesn't tell him except maybe he thinks that Brian would get really upset at the bossman? or mad at Justin?
He tries to become selfsufficient, more independent, wants to prove that he is able to take care of himself. Which I understand because he wants to feel being more equal in their relationship.
He does not tell him maybe because he does not want to admit how he failed and that Brian was right from beginning. He sort of admits it but still keeps certain amount of dignity. If he would tell Brian everything, he would make fool of himself to certain extent.
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Old 07-29-2017, 10:12 AM
  #75
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I wish that Brian had either stayed behind an attended the wedding or Justin went along with him to the white party. It seems that even if Brian were sprawled out on a couple of hot bodies, high as the air around him, he still would have been quite lonely/miserable without someone he'd truly knew being by his side.
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