Sia

Yes, I agree, they needed each other to heal themselves as much as it was possible.Justin pulling the scarf of Brians neck, he was freeing Brian of the quilt. Even when they are on street together and Justin learns to walk in crowd of people, Brian is so vulnerable there, and when they say goodbye to each other, we can see on his face that he does not believe how he can have someone so understanding and caring by his side.

fmaldy24

I am re-watching season 2 and have another question - why do you think Ted and Michael didn't say anything to Brian or Mel and Lindsay about the BB party and the fact that Howard Bellweather was there - considering he was set-righteous in the community and had written horrible things about their best friend Brian.

Also, do you think Justin was hard done by and did lose some of his youth by sleeping with Brian when he was so young?

Even when they are on street together and Justin learns to walk in crowd of people, Brian is so vulnerable there, and when they say goodbye to each other, we can see on his face that he does not believe how he can have someone so understanding and caring by his side.

I love this part . I love how he stands there with his arms open and kisses him on the street . They have such good chemistry

Sia

P I think Ted and Michael did not say anything because writers did not consider it so important, there were many gaps in the stories, jumping from line to another, some where even not logically finished.
Justin probably did not have typical adolescence as other people in his age, but I dont think it was for worse, he gained more than he lost, if he lost anything. Because its idealistic to think that if he would not be with Brian he would find immediately some partner who he would have been completely happy with. Someone else could have cheated on him eventhough pretending to be monogamous or infected him etc. I think it was in his fate to be with Brian, Because he was courageous snd Brian was challenge for him as Justin was challenge for Brian and thes attracted to each other lifes.

SojournHeart11

Jennifer broke his heart when she said he couldn't be with Justin anymore.

Sia

Yes, he was devastated But fortunately they sorted it out. I liked scene of Brian and Justin in car when Brian calls Justim immature brat and Justin then says yee-haw they are both so happy that they can be together

fmaldy24

I'm glad they sorted it out and Brian didn't seem to mind at all really. The scene where they're sitting at the table after Justin gets accepted back into college and Brian kisses Justin at dinner is so nice too - it shows to me that he is happy with the relationship and really likes and accepts Justin.

After that they all bet against their relationship - what do people think about that? Another example of them not seeing Brian changing and growing as a person? I like how Deb stands up for them as well. She does get mad at Brian at times but she is supportive as well .

Sia

That scene is so funny, the first part I mean, when Brian is accusing his friends of trying to turn justin straight. Yes, I think they expected Brian to fail miserably i did not like it but they were being honest and Brian did something similar later in the show when the other couple was planning to move together. However this time was worse as all his friends unamiously except Debbie were against them.
But one thing about this scene. I dont how what effect it had on you, but for me this was actually certain reassurance that their relationship would survive and they will last till the end. Because always in the show when was thing was given to us clear result, the opposite would happen.

fmaldy24

It's this great positive scene and then we see Justin move out and Debbie talking to Brian and getting him to think about things. You see him not able to deny to Debbie that he loves him and really does want Justin in his life. That little sigh *now I sigh* at his love and then when he says 'it's not the reason I want you to stay' and when I come home I'll be doing exactly what I want to do - coming home to you So romantic from Brian Even though they sleep with other people he's still romantic with those statements I think

I like the way Justin stands up to Justin as well He doesn't just go ok - he says I want some things too He doesn't let Brian get away with everything .

Sia

Debbie talking to Brian in this episode is one of the best scenes, because its so intimate, i love when she says "despite all your efforts to never let another heart touch yours, that assume you have one." She summed it up so poetically, the main struggle Brian goes through.
About the scene in Babylon I think I read somewhere that Cowlip considered it as sort of their "marriage". Like that they got commited to each other on their own rules.
there is though one thing I was bit surprised about. And that is when Brian says: "you were right. The reason i took you in was tnat you took a bat to the head. But thats not the reason...." because in this way when he says Justin was right, he confirms Justins question whether he took him in because he felt quilty. BUT I dont think that was the only or main reason, he certainly had the same feelings for Justin when he took him home as he had at that scene in babylon. But was probably afraid to admit it to justin?

fmaldy24

Yeah it wasn't the only reason he took him in - they already had that relationship started as we can see from season 1 where he goes to the prom with Justin, calls the song ridiculously romantic and the kiss by the jeep Without that I don't know if Brian would take someone in.

I like the idea of that being their commitment to each other - the middle of Babylon on the dance floor, just focussed on each other and what they want from each other and the kiss. I like where he says 'I want you to be safe and I want you around for a long time' he always has these wonderful things he says

New topic/question You see Brian meet Ben and then find out later that they had slept together at a white party only a few years before and that Ben had HIV+ for 5 years so that means Brian would've slept with Ben while he was HIV + as well.

Sia

Yes, Brian slept with Ben when he already had HIV, that also surprised me a bit, that Brian did not show any kind of reaction to this fact. Probably because it was long time ago and was tested since then several times. And also with the number of tricks Brian had each month, there had to be many of them who had hiv or other disease, dont you think so? (I remember In one of fanfics I read Brian was also with some trick who had hiv, did not tell Justin and when Justin found out, he was furious that he did not tell him and it caused quiet a rupture in ther relationship.) Are then any chances to get infected even when people use condoms or its 100% protection ? But still its really risky because condoms can break down etc.

fmaldy24

That's true - he did get tested regularly and was negative so he would've known that And you're right he probably would've slept with others when he slept with so many tricks each month.

Ben comes in season 2 and I still don't understand how Michael got him at all. They don't seem to be on the same level in so many ways. Am I being too harsh on Michael?

Sia

No, you are not being harsh. I think there was the connection due to there common interest in comics, Ben was teaching it at college and Michael was so passionate about it of course on different level but it still impressed Ben. And then after their first breakup Michael pursued him relentlessly so did not give him other chance. Intellectually they were probably not at the same level, but thats not always necessary in the relationship. Michael it seems loved him unconditionally and cared about him-steroids and for Ben it could not have be so easy to find such commited partner in someone else also because of his disease. I think he was happy otherwise he would have left. Michael gave him home and that was probably most important for him.

fmaldy24

Very true Sia - you make good points - home and love are very important and you're right about it probably being hard to find someone to love him while he was positive.

Ok I am back to Justin sleeping with the virgin and Brian saying you kissed him and Justin not saying anything about it but just wanting to shower. He often wants to shower after Ethan as well - do you think it's because he wants to wash the feeling of guilt off him so to speak? To clean up cause he feels bad? I still don't know why he doesn't say anything but watching it again after that scene Brian goes to the gym and works extra hard like he feels he needs to be better or fitter to keep Justin and I'm wondering if Justin was so mean to that other boy partly because of his guilt over kissing him. Like if he hadn't kissed him and had Brian say something he might have been nicer to him instead of being like an unsophisticated Brian.

Also, at the end of that episode Justin says he wants to go home with Brian and to stuff the game and they kiss - it looks to me like Brian just pushes him away like he is going to find a trick - what do other people see there? Is that what you think happened?

Sia

Yes thats how I felt it with the kiss. Justin feels quilty and its painful for both of them so goes to shower which is symbolic to cleanse himself. And I also felt he was extra mean to that guy because he knew he broke the promise he gave to Brian and wanted to show that it was nothing so he ridiculed everything to diminish the burden he felt about it.

That end is very painful when Brian pushes Justin away, even if he wanted to go for a trick and not to be with Justin why he had to push him aways so noticeably, amost with a force? Its almost like he is saying **** off....and the music playing is very sad. Its hint that things wont go well for two of them in near future.