BlackSapphire

Awww thanks Deborah! So sweet how they stated into each others eyes and he couldn't believe he wanted to dance with him

SojournHeart11

That's what gets me every single time too.

BlackSapphire

I loved that he did chase outside after him, like he couldn't be without him

brianitesince2001

In order to fully comprehend what was happening in ep 101 we viewers must watch future episodes to gain context and scope as to how Brian routinely treats tricks. Here’s what we don’t know and what we’ll never know: had he always treated tricks with such contempt as if they’re non-people? OR, did he begin to treat tricks this way only after he met Justin because these tricks are NOT Justin? Either way, from the moment he met Justin he treated Justin completely differently than how he treated/treats his other “guests.”

1. Actually, the first bit of evidence is quite banal in the sense that the cameras set it up for us to make it oh, so obvious. However, people still insist Brian did not feel the love in that moment. The accompanying dialogue by Michael really hits the audience over the head with BRIAN AND JUSTIN JUST FELL IN LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT. Michael’s voice over is: “And, that’s when HE came along…” Just as Michael’s saying that Brian looks up and sees Justin standing under that now-infamous street light on the corner. When Brian sees Justin the camera ZOOMS and I mean ZOOMS in, along with the sound effect that’s sort of like static and/or thunder rumbling. And, mutually, when Justin sees Brian the camera/sound does the same exact thing. Voila!! Instant love depicted quite obviously for us by using, some would even go so far as to say, cheap theatrical “tricks” (no pun intended).
I still can’t understand where the basis of the debate lies. How can people possibly say that Brian DIDN’T fall in love yet? But, the argument rages on. I debated this 16 years ago and still people are positive that Brian’s love came later.

2. Brian asks Justin four questions. This was meant to be stylized and hyper sexual. Given that, Brian still would never, ever ask a trick the last question. Brian says, “So, are coming or going? Or are you coming, and then going? Or are you coming and staying?” (And, of course, I always answer Brian with a heavy sigh, “Oh, Brian, Justin’s staying alright.”) Again, the dialogue was heavily stylized but Brian would never ask a trick to stay. (Until season 3 and that’s only b/c Justin broke Brian’s heart and Brian was desperate for companionship in ep 303 when the trick is hanging out in the bedroom reading a comic.)

3. Justin is absolutely rambling about being allergic to certain meds b/c he’s so young, innocent, and nervous. Brian’s actually listening to him. Brian may be slightly mocking him in Brian’s tongue in cheek manner – but he’s listening and responding to the babbling. Normally, Brian cuts off trick dialogue. He speaks at them and not to them – and often Brian doesn’t want to hear any words from them. Forget about tricks – Brian has no patience with ANYBODY babbling, including his friends. Yet, like EF Hutton, when Justin speaks Brian listens.

When B/J are in bed the same thing happens…Justin’s talking about X Box and various hobbies. Brian’s smirking in a gentle mocking way but he’s allowing the kid to speak and they’re actually in a conversation (Two exceptions of Brian speaking to tricks are: ep 504 when Brian AND Justin are talking to the married couple post coitus and in ep 510 when Brian’s learning the best clubs in Australia from the Australian trick. I feel that Brian speaking to his Mom’s priest in ep 209 is circumstantial therefore doesn’t count.)

4. When Brian gets the call from Melanie that his son was just born and they’re getting ready to go to the hospital Brian sits back down and has yet ANOTHER conversation with Justin about Brian’s first time. Brian was quite revealing about his vulnerability at age 14 plus his jadedness now (Justin asks if Brian was scared. Brian says everybody’s scared their first time. Then he gets such a dark, haunted look and says “but I don’t remember anymore.” Again, we have to view future eps to know that Brian is one big defensive machine and wouldn’t normally speak so candidly to a trick.)

5. When they’re in the hospital and Melanie/Lindsay are talking about naming the baby Abraham or Gus and they ask Brian WHAT DOES BRIAN DO????? He turns to Justin and asks Justin what he thinks. Now, Michael’s standing right there. He didn’t ask Michael. Brian asked the kid he JUST met what he thinks Brian’s son’s name should be. Justin picked Gus and THAT’S what Brian chose. (Justin named Brian’s son Gus, Brian’s business Kinnetik, and Brian and Justin’s manor Britin. Anything that Justin creates is a masterpiece to be treasured always in Brian’s eyes. And that began the very first night b/c that’s when Brian fell in love.)

6. Michael was driving back from the hospital with B/J in the back seat. Michael says he’s taking Justin home. Brian says Justin’s going back to Brian’s loft. Michael becomes insistent. Justin says firmly and with resolve, “I’m going with him.” Now, this becomes very important in the future. In ep 118 Brian is talking to Justin about Justin being terrified to forge his own future rather than doing what his parents expect of him. Brian tells Justin that when they first met he was sure Justin would run back home. Brian looks right at Justin and says, “But you didn’t. You said, ‘I’m going with him.’”

Brian’s ep 118 “Forever Young” speech proves that Brian remembers that night in almost every detail. Of course, the issue in ep 101 and 102 becomes that Brian can’t remember Justin’s name. When Brian quotes the “I’m going with him” to Justin in ep 118 Justin even says he can’t believe Brian remembered that considering he couldn’t remember Justin’s name. I feel like Brian was being purposefully obtuse about Justin’s name just to be the pain in the ass we all know Brian can be because suddenly he knew it and NEVER forgot it. (By the way, at the end of ep 102 which takes place the very next night Brian remembers Justin’s name clearly and says it with purpose during their talk outside the loft.)

Furthermore, in ep 512 Justin talks about how Justin was there the night Gus was born and that he even named him. Brian says he had forgotten about that. That surprised me b/c Justin had mentioned it several times during the course of five seasons. Justin states he’s NOT surprised Brian forgot considering how stoned Brian was. But, then, Brian says he has a vivid recollection of all subsequent events. Justin replies casually and with a giggle, “I’m sure.” Justin meant if it had to do with sex, of course, Brian would remember.

But this is just further evidence of the importance of that first night Brian had with Justin from Brian’s POV. BRIAN felt that first night was so important it was ingrained in his memory. And, Justin is right. Brian was high as a kite by the time they got back from the hospital. And, still he remembered most, if not all of that night.

We’re led to believe that Brian has had many thousands of sexual encounters. He’s 29 and a s l u t (declaring btwn 20-30 lovers per month in ep 114) when he meets Justin and he began his sexual life at 14. Brian doesn’t really slow down once he meets Justin. Justin just becomes someone who is regular in Brian’s life. To add to these numbers in ep 412 after Brian overcomes the side effects of the cancer and radiation he states that he and Justin must have had sex WITH EACH OTHER at that point as many times as to be in the low quadruple figures. Think about that. Brian IS brilliant but there was never any reference to Brian having a hyperthymestic memory. So, after five years and THOUSANDS more encounters for Brian to remember all of the subsequent events following the hospital on the first night they met when Justin was supposed to have been nothing but a trick is non-sense. Brian and Justin imprinted on each other like baby birds from the first moment. Brian just ran from it and Justin immediately embraced it. Heart-breakingly, ultimately Brian embraced it and Justin ran from it.


7. OK – the following morning of ep 101 with Justin lying next to Brian. Again, we must look at future episodes to see what normally occurs when Brian wakes up with a trick in his bed. It’s not pretty. Brian kicks the guy out with contempt and non-conversation. I cringe sometimes b/c it’s really nasty and I don’t think the trick deserves that treatment. But, I digress. So, the alarm goes off. Brian reaches over to punch it and in the process has to roll on top of Justin to do it. Brian doesn’t even notice. It’s natural for Justin to be next to him and natural for Brian to have to lean across/on top of Justin. It’s as if they knew each other in a former life – or former lives.

8. So, after that telltale sign it gets even mushier *tee hee*. Justin, in his innocence, purity, and young love DARES to put his arm around Brian (again – see futures eps. A trick would never venture to handle Brian like that). THE FIRST INSTINCTIVE MOVE BRIAN MAKES IS THE ANSWER, FOLKS. BRIAN IS IN LOVE WITH JUSTIN. Justin puts his arm around Brian. Brian, lying on his back with his eyes still shut, instinctively turns around towards Justin (Brian NEVER turns around and faces his tricks) and even MORE THAN THAT…snuggles, almost burrows, his head UNDER Justin’s face so Brian’s is on the pillow and Justin’s face is on top of his. Simultaneously he puts his arm around Justin and then, Brian pulls him in for a full embrace. HAH!!! IT IS LOVE!! It might be unconscious for Brian at this moment but IT IS LOVE!!!

Of course, the moment he realizes what’s happening he picks up his head with an accusing look on his face and says abrasively, “what the **** are you doing here?” And, after that Brian’s awake and his defenses are up. Still, they’re not quite as up as with other tricks and they really never, ever will be with Justin from this moment forward.

9. Brian allows Justin to take a shower. Only one trick had asked to use the shower to the best of my recollection (ep 302) and Brian tells him to wear it home proudly. (YUCK!! OK, there is a scene during the Brandon/Brian contest in season 5 where Brian’s got a trick in the shower. My eyes will never be the same. YUCK. But, that was just rogue behavior b/c Brian was so hurt he was practically dead.) Anyway, Brian gets into the shower with Justin that first morning and we’re led to believe they have at LEAST one more round before Michael comes to get them.

Immediately before Brian meets Justin for that first fated time he tells the guys he left the back room before the trick was done because he got bored. The next morning, after they dropped Justin off at school Brian told Michael that Justin almost wore him out. Instantly, Brian is challenged by Justin. Later, we’ll find that Justin also challenges Brian intellectually and emotionally. But, immediately, Justin cured Brian’s boredom of the physical.

10. Overnight Brian’s black jeep was vandalized and the word ****** was written largely and in pink spray paint on the side. When Brian dropped off Justin at school all the kids were staring at it and one kid yelled to Justin, “Justin, ya wanna suck me off?” Well, in a shot Brian throws open his door, stands up on the car door ledge and yells, “NO! But I’ll kick your tight little virgin ass so hard you won’t be able to sit down for a week!!!” So, as soon as Brian met Justin he went into protection mode – and he’d remained there for the rest of the series. He didn’t always succeed (he couldn’t stop the bashing or Justin’s involvement in the pink posse) but he ALWAYS tried to make sure Justin was safe.

Brian’s protection began so quickly b/c he loved Justin so immediately.

11. In ep 401 Brian’s exuding, oozing, dripping, radiating, and goo-ing love when they’re in Brian’s loft contemplating selling it to pay Brian’s debts. Justin doesn’t want the loft sold b/c it’s the first place they “made love.” Brian says, “That wasn’t love. I just gave you a rim job and ****ed your brains out.” Justin allows Brian his weak little objection even as Brian at that very moment is pouring the love down his eyes, over his lips, splashing onto Justin, and hitting the floor – go watch the scene again – he’s just oooooozing the love. Justin chooses to humor Brian’s unconvincing declaration that it wasn’t love and Justin just gives a little knowing “HHMMPPHH” with a little knowing smirk. Then Justin says, “it was love to me.”

He’s telling Brian right there that Brian’s full of crap. Justin doesn’t hold back telling Brian he loves Brian throughout all of season 4. Justin vocalizes his Brian Love many times from 401 – 414. But to set an accurate tone and to set the record (forgive the term) “straight” for the audience, right at the start of season 4 Justin’s telling Brian that Brian loved Justin, too, and at very first sight.

12. I already wrote about the 102 ending. Brian was already in love and knew it was futile. Hence his gaze at Justin as Justin drove away. And, Brian was in love so deeply that he pursued it anyway (by allowing Justin to pursue him) knowing how hurt he was going to be. (The deleted scene is further evidence of that. He was in such a bad place he wanted George Good**** to leave. But, then his Kinney instincts kicked in and he reverted back to the only thing he knew. It was only ep 102, after all and love was completely brand new to him.

13. The ubiquitous QAF Greek Chorus…In ep 507 after Justin broke up with Brian b/c Brian wouldn’t settle down Justin’s letting Debbie and Emmett know what happened as they’re handing out anti Prop 14 fliers. Emmett serves as the Greek Chorus so we viewers know what’s going to happen and what the entirety of the situation is and was. Emmett says if Debbie and Justin ever read Jackie Collins they would know that the hero comes back for the heroine, meaning Justin, and…THIS WORDING IS EXTREMELY VITAL…the hero would tell the heroine that he loved her all along.

See what Cowlip did there???? Brian did not vocalize the scope or time line or ANY DETAILS WHATSOEVER of his love at all when he finally told Justin. He DID say “I love you” four times during their embrace in ep 510. However, only two of those “I love yous” were clearly audible. The second set of two are whispers that can be heard only if the TV volume is blasting. And those four times were all we were ever going to get out of Brian. Brian never said it again.

In ep 511 Brian asks Justin, “Did you hear what I said last night?” But Brian made Justin say, “you said you loved me.” Brian smiled and nodded in agreement but never said it. Later in ep 511 during the proposal in the manor Brian spoke in third person terms. “I thought of one good reason to do it. To prove to the person I love how much I love him. That I’d give him anything. I’d do anything. I’d …BE…anything to make him happy.” But, he never spoke to Justin in the first person during that speech. Justin says, “You bought this palace?” Brian answers, “It’s for my prince.” Cowlip’s choices are so strange and unsettling. Why couldn’t Brian say, “It’s for you, my prince.” ? Uggghhhh. I digress. They give me heartburn. They really do.

In ep 513 during their goodbye when Brian, or should I say Gale, wore the most exquisite heart-breaking cry face during the entire scene and looked like he was about to burst EVEN THEN he didn’t say he loved Justin. Justin says they don’t need rings or vows to prove they love each other. They already know that. All Brian can do is nod, and stunningly WITH the cry face he smiles a little. (Gale’s acting was absolutely off the charts. I don’t understand how he doesn’t have an Emmy sitting on his mantle for all of season 5 but definitely for that last scene in Brian’s loft.)

But, anyway – so because Cowlip were so very weird and stingy about Brian continuing to say “I love you” once he said it the first time Emmett had to become the Greek Chorus to let us know that Brian’s love for Justin was from the start. Brian loved Justin ALL ALONG. All along meaning FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. FROM THE VERY FIRST MOMENT. IT WAS LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT.


I rest my case.

fmaldy24

Hey Beth - you make some really interesting points I think the one that stood out to me was the cuddling the next morning - I noticed that as well - he rolled over and cuddled Justin - he was so comfortable with him and happy to have him there and all cuddly. That was why in season 5 when Justin said Brian does all these things but he doesn't cuddle I was like what? He was cuddly with Justin from the first morning - he just rolled into him and started cuddling You can't tell me in all their time together and sleeping together and living together that they never had cuddles again any other morning. You're right that Brian treated him differently from the start.

BlackSapphire

Hey Beth
Wow those are very interesting points and I love the ending of your post. Definitely love at first sight.
Brian was a very good listener to him. That's one thing that is clearly visible and one of the many things we love about them

SojournHeart11

This is so true. Usually when Brian's had someone over, after the night fades into morning, he kick's the guy out because he wants nothing more to do with him. And I don't know if it's because Justin was young or if he genuinely had feelings for him in those early episodes, but he never did that to Justin. I believe Brian started feeling something for Justin immediately. I agree with the love at first sight assertion, too. I believe with my heart that that's what happened.

"And that's when it happened... when he came along"

SojournHeart11

Perfect compilation of some of the more stellar moments

like a perfect storm

Thank you everyone for the welcome! took me a month to answer but rn I'm fighting cancer so I don't post much.

The gifs!

SojournHeart11

Oh, Sara I didn't know that. Sending strong hopes and prayers for a successful outcome your way... and of course lots of hugs, too.

These gifs are fabulous

BlackSapphire

Aww Sara you have so much strength we are sending love and thoughts to you hun
I have a prayer for you, stay strong, you will fight it

brianitesince2001

Hi, Fiona,

You're absolutely right. Brian DOES cuddle. I was watching episodes today, coincidentally, where I was looking for this. Your brain waves traveled across the planet to South Carolina, and I heard you. LOL.

Ep 202 - I don't speculate and have a hard time using my imagination outside of canon. However, if there's one cuddle we KNOW occurred even though it was never shown is the end of episode 202. Brian and Justin are MAKING LOVE. They'd been through hell and back from trauma, post trauma, having to re-live the memories, etc. This was the first time either of them ever made love - I'd bet my hat on it. So, the whole session looked like cuddling. I'm sure they held each other afterwards.

But, the above example is the end of my speculating. I've cited a few actual examples below. There are more but these are just some:

Ep 220 - poor Brian is laying in the dark with his eyes open wondering if Justin's coming back. Justin does but in his frame of mind he should have stayed at Debbie's. Poor Brian thinks Justin came back b/c he actually chose Brian not b/c Ethan kicked him out. Anyway, with NO QUESTIONS ASKED, just love and unconditional acceptance, Brian pulls back the covers for Justin. Justin gets in and Brian puts his arm around Justin gently stroking Justin's wrist. In a couple of seconds Brian closes his eyes to finally sleep. Why? B/c Justin's back and it's going to be OK. Brian goes to sleep with Justin in his arms. I cry every time I see that scene b/c Brian's got it all wrong and his trust is heart-breaking.

Ep 220 - we don't see this but Brian speaks of it so it IS canon. It's just off-camera canon. It's the horrible scene where Justin apologizes for lying about Ethan. Brian gets up, sticks his hand down Justin's pants and says how Justin loves c--k. But, listen to this carefully - I always thought it was an amazingly romantic thing for Brian to say and for B/J to do. Brian says yada yada, "and you love to fall asleep with it still inside you." NOW, HONESTLY, how ever is Justin going to fall asleep like that if they're not cuddling? That's pretty close and intimate contact, wouldn't you say??? And, physically, I defy anybody to figure out how that could happen WITHOUT them cuddling? (And, as a side note. I was always shocked by Justin's answer IT'S NOT ALWAYS ABOUT SEX. I always thought Brian was speaking about intimacy and romance with that part of his statement. The bit about down Justin's throat and riding it, etc, was about sex. But, the part about falling asleep with it wasn't. This is just my opinion, of course.)

Ep 314 - Brian's suffering from possession withdrawal and has to go lay down. He and Justin walk to the bdrm holding hands. They're having a nice snuggle/cuddle there.

Ep 402 - Brian flips Justin on his back and NOT ONLY IS HE CUDDLING he's doing that irresistable Gale/Brian thing that G/B has for Justin's hair and he's twirling it in his fingers. All this while he's completely vulnerable to Justin telling him he's got to start his own biz now or he'll never do it.

Ep 408 - Justin's cradling Brian when Brian's exhausted from the surgery. Brian's not actively taking part but he's allowing himself to be held. And, THEY'RE CUDDLING!!

Ep 412 - B/J post coitus talking about Brian going on Liberty ride. They're entangled. First, Justin's rubbing his back, then Brian wraps his arm around Justin's shoulder. As they exit the scene the shot is Brian quite comfortably laying on the bed with his legs crossed while practically on top of Justin as Justin collapses in frustration b/c he can't convince Brian NOT to do the bike ride.

Ep 502 - again, post coitus, Brian is laying with Justin. Justin's arm's around Brian. Brian has one arm on Justin and one arm outward on the bed. Then, he moves his second arm onto Justin so he's actually cradling Justin's arm in his two arms. THEN, Brian completely lets go and seems like a three year old when Justin climbs on him and tickles him.

Again, I cry. If you watch that episode Brian's behaving like a rich, powerful man, even in his dealings with Michael as Brian acts on Lindsay's behalf. Then, in contrast, he's in bed with his Justin. Firstly, he asks a very insecure question: So, was it all you remembered? Then, he teases Justin with It was OoooooKaaaaaay. Then, gets tickled. Then, just can't help himself: I thought you were never coming back.
So, not only cuddling, but playful, candid, let-his-guard-down intimacy with his Justin.


I stick by my guns when I say Brian's extremely romantic. He has been from the start. But, of course, just like a magic trick, as he's over on the left ACTING romantic the chorus is over on the right telling us to look over here!! look over here!! He's NOT romantic. Don't believe what you're seeing. Believe what we're telling you!!

So, Justin having his fit about Brian never cuddling is:

A) not the truth (just a Cowlip convenience) b/c evidence states that they DO cuddle. (I MEAN JUST LOOK AT THAT SCENE!! JUSTIN'S LEG IS SLUNG OVER BRIAN'S TORSO!! They're not face to face and in each other's arms, but they're cuddling!!)

B) OOC for Justin b/c up until that moment he was the person that MOST knew who Brian really is and accepted him for who he is (example, Justin's the ONLY one who ever understood that Brian loves Gus. Even Lindsay doubts Brian's love for Gus sometimes. Also, ep 112 - Justin says, "I'm onto you". He ALWAYS KNEW Brian had a crusty exterior with a warm, mushy center. Cowlip/Justin just FORGOT during the Ethan arc.)

and C) horrible of Cowlip/Justin to do b/c Justin had wanted Brian to change since he met Brian. Justin wanted a husband, a home, and a family. Well, Brian GAVE him that home. Brian gave him almost everything except for monogamy and a ring. So, he finally gave that to Justin. And, it wasn't spoken, but I think it's understood that with this marriage will, at some point, come the family that Justin always wanted.

Soooooo, how could Justin break up with Brian for not giving him those things in 220 and again in 507 then not want to marry Brian because he DID give him those things???? IT'S STUPID, LAZY, ILLOGICAL, NON-SENSICAL, INCONSISTENT WRITING.


Hope you're doing OK, Fiona! We miss you. You must have felt like your worlds were colliding when you heard them play Proud at your assembly. LOL

brianitesince2001

Removed post b/c I posted twice in a row. Sorry!

like a perfect storm

Thank you all for your kind words! I'm gonna fight this, I have a husband & one year old daughter so I'm very determined.

I've been watching BJ vids a lot lately, other than the l word vids, it's all I've been watching.

Giotto

sending my love and wish you a lot of positive thoughts and strength you will be ok and fell free to come here whenever you need a cheering up from us or the boys