WildRose

I agree with Claudia,that during S1 & S2 BJ relationship were not as balanced as in S3,so,with Brian being older and "not beliving in love" it might seem like he's more dominant here.however,I can't say Justin was submissive. Brian wasn't making it any easier for him,beacuse he wouldn't let him be part of his life but still,there were plenty of times were Justin was totaly in control,even after the bashing,IMO.

Lexi-It makes me feel great to know that I'm not the only one who thinks about BJ in certain RL situations...

soulmatejunkee

I talked to my friend about that, too. You're right, it is interesting how Brian reacts after being betrayed.

About the domination. I agree at some points. I think there were some scenes before 1.20 when Brians shows emotions toward Justin, see 1.18 when they met Hobbs and 1.19 "Not as long as I have you to protect me". But you're right, Justin had to beg a lot in Season 1.

WildRose

I think that after the bashing things changed for Brian,and he began to realize that no matter how much he tries to denay it,or keep Justin away for him,he can't,because this kid really affected him.that's one of the reasons he reacted the way he did during the first break up,IMO.

as for making Justin beg for things in S1,I don't think he did that because he wanted to hurt Justin,he was just taking him for granted,as that drag queen told Justin when he was crowned as king of Babylon. since the prom Brian didn't take Justin for granted anymore

soulmatejunkee

Yes, in Season 1 he was taking him for granted.

I think after their first break-up, Brian didn't blame Justin, because he kinda expected it to happen - as always. I mean that man expects people to cheat, relationships to fail and love to hurt.

I would have yelled at Justin for cheating and lying. I would be pissed!

Brian was just lonely and I am sure he realized that very fast. And since I don't think Justin is the only one to blame for the break up, I am sure he also thought about the reasons. And things changed a lot after the reunion, so he definitely thought about it.

Manu9

I've always found it very interesting that Brian remained so loyal to Justin after the breakup. And a breakup that brought cheating and lying with it too. I think it's really meaningful how Brian keeps following all the rules and keeps taking care of Justin as much as he can. It's something I've always loved and that makes the love Brian had for Justin already so much deeper than it could seem at first sight.

WildRose

I think after the bashing Brian started to belive in love more than ever before.it's not like all his emotional problems disappeared,but it was a lot differend than S1. he obviously was hurt by the cheating and lying,but he couldn't let go of Justin,which is really a sign that he was willing to belive in love.

Manu9

I think he also felt a responsability to Justin's well being. And of course he cared about him and didn't want him to be in trouble if he could help it. Plus, even though Brian would deny it at the cost of his life, he always takes care of people he loves, not only Justin. It's who he is.

galesgirl645

I think after the bashing everything changed and it was only natural that they did because something like that brings about change.

chase 73

Just as an aside, with the lying & cheating is also the walking out with the new boyfriend in front of everybody, the 'family' and...everyone. This is a kinda big 'public humiliation' and shouldn't be discounted in the mix of things. From B's pov, if he were gonna overlook, or forgive the first two, that knowledge might have been limited to Michael (& Ben). Fortunately, Brian's got this beautiful dichotomy here. While he really is concerned with his public persona, his facade, his rep, he can also spin right around and not care one iota what anyone else thinks. So with 'who he is,' all of these things, that to anyone else would be huge, seemingly irreparable stumbling blocks, seemed to be almost ignored by B as non-issues. He'd already admitted to 'caring about,' that didn't change and he acted accordingly.
'Caring about?' Hell, that starts way before the bashing or even showing up at the prom. B's actions in changing lifetime rules (no 2nd time, no repeats) & taking this under-age high school kid back out from his parents living room speak well to this. Before that even. Could you imagine B taking any other trick, regardless of what they'd told their parents, with him to the hospital to meet his new son? While not recognized by B and, as Manu phrased it, "would deny it at the cost of his life," this may almost be a case of love-at-first-sight under that lamppost even for him. But wow, the time it took gettin' thru those walls!

WildRose

very well said,chase.
what I love about Brian is that very dichotomy you talk about.the fact that he's such an expeirenced, guy,who's been around for so long,and doesn't belive in love (not to mention he's had a troubled childhood) and all through S1 he's clearly trying not to let Justin be a part of his life,and on the other hand,as you pointed out,he's sharing some very private moments with him only hours after they first met.
I definitely agree with you that breaking those walls was a huge task,and the right person to to that was Justin,and I love those little intimate moments back in S1 where Brian allowes himself to take those guards down,but I think the first time Brian is really "going for it" is at the prom, and also after the bashing. (and yet he stiil wouldn't admit to Justin that he was there at the hospital every night...)

chase 73

Oh yes, i agree, showing up for the prom & after the dance could be seen as the first real signs of love on B's part. I just can't pretend, even to myself, in those early years to even have an opinion on just how much B was really in full denial, or kinda knew but wouldn't form the words in his own head, or knew but absolutely would not or even could not verbalize it, even to J.
As for whether B would admit to J about the hospital, or J finding out some other way, this is something i will never forgive CowLip for. That & B finding out about the Kip incident. As late as that Dandy Warhols music starting off in 513, I was absolutely convinced these things were going to come up in some way. Even just before J found the rings not returned, i was convinced this was the spot. I was just waiting to see how they handled it & if either of them had any previous knowledge about the other. I kinda set myself up to be disappointed almost to the very end. I mighta done it to myself, but i still don't forgive CowLip!!

allybubba

I was doing my rewatch and stopped at the end half of S4 for a whileeee. I just started up S5 the past few nights.

I love BJ so much it's not even funny. I miss them so much and i'll have to rewatch AGAIN because I just can't get enough. Never will.

WildRose

^ I know that feeling all too well

and speaking of rewatching,I have to say that when I rewatch 513 I love the "new Brian" ,who is finaly more in touch with his won feelings and is able to express his love out loud (even if the bomb was the incentive ) yet,I agree with you,chase,that it would have been great if Brian would finaly admit to Justin about what happene after the bashing. and if Justin would admit about helping him with kip,omg,that would totaly be a kleenex moment for me I guess that's ppbly why CowLip avioded that.
...but many fics writers didn't,so we can always go there

chase 73

Yes I know. We've both just read & commented on 1 of those in the past week that we liked for just that reason. I already though can't recall the author or title except for your asking if it was one in a series of 'stuck ins or ats,' & we both were a little disconcerted with the seemingly unresolved issue about the scarf, or rag. But it still would have been very good to see these events dealt with on the show & i really have no idea why they didn't. Except I could see why the Kip incident couldn't come up too early. (but 513 was NOT too early) Exposed in early seasons, we & even J & even B himself would always have an extra little nagging doubt as to how much saving him from a million $ settlement might be influencing things B did for J. Specifically, money stuff like paying for school, buying the computer, etc. We & J needed these things kinda as evidence that B really did love him, or certainly cared deeply. I can understand CowLip deciding, even into sea. 5, not to muddy things up with this. BUT NOT ALL THE WAY TO THE END!!

Manu9

I like to read fics in which those things come up and Brian and Justin find out what they did for each other. But it's also nice to think that sometimes they do things for each other without the other knowing, just out of love.

We need a new thread, any idea for the title?