Legends of Tomorrow - Captain Lance {Sara Lance||Caity Lotz} #40: "Redemption isn't a destination, it's a journey." - Page 12

**wickedrum** · 08-09-2019, 03:52 AM

Oliver and Laurel had zero chemistry

**eternalfate** · 08-09-2019, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancer6238 (View Post)

Yeah, I think Guggenheim tried to remind people Sara's bi with the ONS with that male TB agent and the hook-up with Constantine. But now she's stuck with Ava till the end, so that's that.

I'm not a shipper at all, but out of all of Sara's pairing thus far, I liked Sara/Oliver the most, because of their shared history and the connection they have. I liked Sara/Snart too because it was organic and wasn't forced. I never really got into Sara/Nyssa, because I could never forget how she was willing to kill Sara's parents right in front of Sara, while she lay dying. Though everything she said about Sara after she died did make me feel Nyssa did love Sara, perhaps more than Sara loved Nyssa. As for Ava, it was pretty much obvious she was going to be Sara's love interest based on what Klemmer said before the season aired. I don't like how they nerfed Sara so they could show Ava was her equal. They never did that with Oliver when they showed Sara was his equal. I feel like Legends writers don't do well with planned romances, like Sara/Ava.

Yup and it's so annoying... I just let it slide since I know what to expect.
I agree with all of that, although I do ship pairings. lol

**PhoenixRising** · 08-09-2019, 02:36 PM

Well, Guggenheim is very left of center and Berlanti is gay, so I think that factors in a lot. I get that they want to show diversity, but my goodness, the sheer number of bisexual Hollywood actresses who are married to men or have boyfriends is kind of self-evident to the point where you don't even need to look at the statistics(84% end up with opposite sex partners). If they think that having Sara end up with a man would be "insulting" to the L/G community, then why make her bisexual at all knowing the reality of the situation?

It's the same thing that Joss Whedon did with Willow. If you want a L/G character then create one for that specific reason, but if a character is bi, then how can you not portray her as such?

**eternalfate** · 08-09-2019, 02:50 PM

^ Alex I mentioned it a few posts back on this thread before, clearly SOMETHING happened after season 1 where Sara was asked to be written more lesbian than bisexual... according to one of the former writers SNJ... so that might be the case.

Because fans started noticing it and that's when a lot of fans got upset and sent messages to the LoT writers and CW...

proty · 08-09-2019, 04:15 PM

If Sara is in a committed relationship with a woman, how can they still show her interested in men? Is she supposed to have boyfriends on the side or be in an open relationship so she can keep sleeping with men to prove she's bi? And Sara for years had been one of the only LGBT characters on Legends. Of course Sara will be shown with women more over men when they have so many other straight characters that can be in straight relationships.

Coconut1214 · 08-09-2019, 05:25 PM

No one is talking about now. Even before Sara and Ava got together, Sara only showed sexual interest in women. She never once showed any interest in men. Even with Leonard it was more on his side than hers. I've seen plenty of Bi people upset by this, since they are often left out of the conversations about LGBTQ. Sara has only shown interest in woman for I would say most of her run on LoT. They just threw the hook up with Constantine because people were getting upset with the writers. But Sara didn't show any interest in John prior to that. When we've seen her show interest in almost any woman she comes across. If they wanted Sara to be gay they should've just made her gay. Oliver could've been the last guy she was with before she realized she was gay. That probably would've been a better reason for their break up then the one they had.

**eternalfate** · 08-09-2019, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by proty (View Post)

If Sara is in a committed relationship with a woman, how can they still show her interested in men? Is she supposed to have boyfriends on the side or be in an open relationship so she can keep sleeping with men to prove she's bi? And Sara for years had been one of the only LGBT characters on Legends. Of course Sara will be shown with women more over men when they have so many other straight characters that can be in straight relationships.

When Sara was on Arrow you clearly could see she was bisexual because they wrote it that way. On Legends they write Sara as being attracted to pretty much any women she runs into. lol Even in the crossover, she hooks up with Alex! It's not about hooks ups, it's about fact.

During season 2 of Legends of Tomorrow is when people started noticing it! and the hastag #SaraLanceIsBisexual begun! and that was after Mick stated, "Too bad this filly's into other fillies." he said that referring to Sara when sort of implied that Sara was only into women.

To calm some fans down, SNJ (former writer) had Malcolm say to Sara in one of her written episodes, "Meet a nice boy...or girl."

I loved Captain Canary but I wouldn't had want Sara to not show an attraction towards women while they were getting built.

During season 2 of Legends a former writer herself pretty much confirmed that her bisexually was getting erased and she mentioned how the CW probably had a bit to do with that.
I believe that SNJ herself is bisexual so she felt it was important that Sara stayed that way as well...

Her attraction towards men was only really shown when fans complained about how she was getting written at times because obviously it seems they care to write Sara more as a lesbian.

proty · 08-09-2019, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coconut1214 (View Post)

No one is talking about now. Even before Sara and Ava got together, Sara only showed sexual interest in women. She never once showed any interest in men. Even with Leonard it was more on his side than hers. I've seen plenty of Bi people upset by this, since they are often left out of the conversations about LGBTQ. Sara has only shown interest in woman for I would say most of her run on LoT. They just threw the hook up with Constantine because people were getting upset with the writers. But Sara didn't show any interest in John prior to that. When we've seen her show interest in almost any woman she comes across. If they wanted Sara to be gay they should've just made her gay. Oliver could've been the last guy she was with before she realized she was gay. That probably would've been a better reason for their break up then the one they had.

Several posts in this thread referenced the her and now. That's what I'm responding to. I'm not sure how much interest in men Sara needs to show to prove she's bi sexual in the here and now especially when she's with Ava. As for the past, just because Sara is bi doesn't meant she has to be shown as into men as much as she is into women. She could have a preference. A lot of times IMO it seems most anger stems from some not being happy about who Sara is with.

proty · 08-09-2019, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternalfate (View Post)

When Sara was on Arrow you clearly could see she was bisexual because they wrote it that way. On Legends they write Sara as being attracted to pretty much any women she runs into. lol Even in the crossover, she hooks up with Alex! It's not about hooks ups, it's about fact.

During season 2 of Legends of Tomorrow is when people started noticing it! and the hastag #SaraLanceIsBisexual begun! and that was after Mick stated, "Too bad this filly's into other fillies." he said that referring to Sara when sort of implied that Sara was only into women.

To calm some fans down, SNJ (former writer) had Malcolm say to Sara in one of her written episodes, "Meet a nice boy...or girl."

I loved Captain Canary but I wouldn't had want Sara to not show an attraction towards women while they were getting built.

During season 2 of Legends a former writer herself pretty much confirmed that her bisexually was getting erased and she mentioned how the CW probably had a bit to do with that.
I believe that SNJ herself is bisexual so she felt it was important that Sara stayed that way as well...

Her attraction towards men was only really shown when fans complained about how she was getting written at times because obviously it seems they care to write Sara more as a lesbian.

I remember all of this. We even talked about it when it all went down in season 2 of LOT.

Saras sexuality in Arrow got little to no development. She hooked up with Oliver and had the one episode with Nyssa where their past as lovers was brought up.

I remember what that Legends writer said about Sara. We talked about it and I was even annoyed by it because at the time I was a Sara/Snart fan.

But what I am saying is I don't see what more the show needs to do to prove that Sara is a bi sexual woman. They had her mention hooking up with a male TB agent and she slept with Constantine. I don't see what more can be done than that when they've decided to put Sara in a long term relationship with Ava that doesn't seem to be ending.

lancer6238 · 08-09-2019, 08:39 PM

According to Berlanti at the OUT@WB panel, he mentioned the reason for showing Sara pretty much only being with women was "a preference from TPTB" and they were also trying not to "upset lesbian members or bisexual members of the audience". I can understand why they were afraid of upsetting their lesbian audience after the mess of Sanvers and Clexa (and even the non-existent Kara/Lena), but I wonder how much they were really afraid or aware of upsetting their bisexual audience, since they were actually upset and one of them was their writers.

Anyway, it's too late for any of that now, since Sara's with Ava now and I can't see them ever breaking up for the same reason they showed Sara mostly with women.

**eternalfate** · 08-10-2019, 04:18 PM

^ No surprise there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by proty (View Post)

But what I am saying is I don't see what more the show needs to do to prove that Sara is a bi sexual woman. They had her mention hooking up with a male TB agent and she slept with Constantine. I don't see what more can be done than that when they've decided to put Sara in a long term relationship with Ava that doesn't seem to be ending.

I believe for some fans that's the issue. It doesn't need to be an issue for you but for people like me it is. I feel as we have to accept Avalance because Ava is a woman and that's my issue. If what happened with Ava/Sara last season happened with Sara and a guy than people would rant about how he's controlling and doesn't accept Sara for who she is. With Ava, we just have to accept it as angst because they'll be together forever only because you can't upset the lesbian fanbase... it's annoying. Just get Sara another girlfriend who accepts her fully for who she is.

And as I mentioned before they only had the Constantine and even TB agent thing to stop the audience from talking about it... I'm sure they'd admit that themselves. lol

But I can't blame the Legends writers if the network is asking the writers to write Sara more as a lesbian than bi.

Coconut1214 · 08-10-2019, 06:12 PM

If they are going to keep Sara gay, I'd rather they bring in another woman for her. Because all they've shown me over and over again is that Ava doesn't accept Sara for who she is. She wants to change her to be more what Ava wants. Which to me is not a good relationship. She want's Sara to follow directions/orders and listen to her and be on her side even when she's clearly wrong. I don't even think we got a real apology from Ava about that. She made her apology about herself. Then Sara had to go make her feel better when Sara was right to listen to her heart over her girlfriend.

All those things Ava doesn't like about Sara is what makes her a good leader for the Legends. She's able to think on her feet, change the plan in a moments notice because she's not following something written in a rule book. She listens to her team and their ideas. She doesn't try to change her teammates into something they are not. She lets them be them and she trusts them to the right thing when it counts. Sara inspires criminals and bad guys to do the right thing. That's an accomplishment none of the Trinity have. Mick, Leonard and even Damian helped save the world because of their ideas. Had Ava been charge she would've just locked them up and not listened to word they said because they are the bad guys. Sara even works with people after they murdered her (Rip) or tried to murder her (Nora). She doesn't hold a grudge about it.

Sara told Ava before they became serious that she wasn't normal and Ava said she doesn't want normal. But now she wants a normal domestic life with a normal girlfriend that likes book clubs, washing the dishes and paying bills. That's not Sara. That wasn't even Sara before everything that happened to her. Sara rebelled against normal, her father was a cop and she shoplifted, dated guys that stole cars and stole people's boyfriends. Sara never wanted to be normal.

Sara's not a hero because she wants the glory, saving people is her redemption for everything she did in her past. Doing dirty dishes and paying bills doesn't help her redeem herself. Ava doesn't have a past to make up for, so she doesn't understand that or look like she's even trying to understand that. Of course we never get Sara saying anything because she doesn't get to have a voice in their relationship, everything has to be about Ava's issues.

I know we are stuck with Ava forever because people like them. I've accepted that, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Or stop complaining about them. Sara's my favorite character and she didn't even have a storyline last season that didn't involve Ava. I can only hope they can write their romance while also giving Sara a POV and her own storyline next season. I'm not holding my breath though because it seems now that Avalance is popular, that's all Sara's storyline is going to be about. Here's hoping she has some awesome fight scenes in the crossover since she sure got nothing last season on LoT.

Quote:

I can understand why they were afraid of upsetting their lesbian audience after the mess of Sanvers and Clexa

I'm pretty sure Clexa is still the reason they aren't putting Clarke and Bellamy together on the 100. The actors got together before their characters.

proty · 08-10-2019, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternalfate (View Post)

^ No surprise there.

I believe for some fans that's the issue. It doesn't need to be an issue for you but for people like me it is. I feel as we have to accept Avalance because Ava is a woman and that's my issue. If what happened with Ava/Sara last season happened with Sara and a guy than people would rant about how he's controlling and doesn't accept Sara for who she is. With Ava, we just have to accept it as angst because they'll be together forever only because you can't upset the lesbian fanbase... it's annoying. Just get Sara another girlfriend who accepts her fully for who she is.

And as I mentioned before they only had the Constantine and even TB agent thing to stop the audience from talking about it... I'm sure they'd admit that themselves. lol

But I can't blame the Legends writers if the network is asking the writers to write Sara more as a lesbian than bi.

Well, I don't think Ava is this controlling bully that's forcing Sara to change into the person she wants her to be. I'm a male viewer so it's not only lesbian viewers who like Avalance and Ava. But I know I'm the only Ava fan here and person who doesn't see her as this horrible person in Saras life. So I'm not expecting anyone to agree with me that Ava isn't ruining Sara.

**eternalfate** · 08-10-2019, 08:37 PM

^ That's why we all can have our DIFFERENT views.

And that's okay. You can't expect others to view things the same as you do.

And by the way, I never said that "only lesbian viewers like Avalance." because straight viewers love them as well. I was only responded to you and in general with a writer shouldn't be held hostage by a set of fans or criticism that might come their way. I LOVED Olicity in season 1-2 but I can even admit that once it hit season 3, they decided to sort of erase Oliver/Laurel just to make Olicity happen and even had killed off Laurel for good. And I didn't like Oliver/Laurel one bit but even I had to admit that and that was done because of a loud fanbase...

And in general if you even look at my recaps, when Ava and Sara broke up, my reaction was, "umm okay... nice so when are they getting back together?"

Because I knew it'd happen because it'd be a outrage over it.

I don't even understand why this is even much of a discussion. You love Avalance and that's nice but that doesn't mean we all have to like Avalance.

I don't ship them but I DO NOT HATE THEM, I was just expression my views on why I don't see them breaking up. For me I found Sara's relationships with Oliver, Snart and Nyssa way more compelling whereas I felt Avalance was way more rushed for me but I do admit that in the beginning of season 4 I really enjoyed their relationship but in general Legends of Tomorrow writers have the issue. They are TERRIBLE at writing romances and probably that's the MAIN issue. If Avalance was on another show, I'd probably enjoy them better because the writing would probably captivate me.

And to add, in MY OPINION, because it's my opinion, I've seen many examples of Ava trying to mode Sara into who she wanted her to be like when she told Sara she didn't approve of the way she handled the legends or when she was in Ava's mind, Ava still had an issue with the way Sara handled things. So I guess we are both seeing Avalance relationship through a different pair of lenses.

Lastly, I didn't say that Ava was ruining Sara and I didn't say I hated Avalance, I just don't ship them. but again I can talk about them and still find some of their scenes enjoyable.

By the way, my least favorite romance of Legends will forever be Ray & Kendra, just so we are clear.

Give me Avalance 1000000000000000x over that nonsense.

proty · 08-10-2019, 10:04 PM

I didn't say everyone has to agree with me about Avalance or that I want anyone to. I'm not expectng anyone to feel how I feel. It's fine.


Fan Forum > Archived Television Shows > Legends of Tomorrow > Captain Lance {Sara Lance\|\|Caity Lotz} #40: "Redemption isn't a destination, it's a journey."