- Nina -

Add me, pls? I love her!

L i N d $ @ y

Sure! I hope you get to post here soon especially when the promos are in.

pennylane_4

I'm bringing this over from the N/G thread, because we got off topic there, yo.

I think it's kind of sad that you see it that way, because you seem to be operating under the assumption that romance is the only way to reward a character. As if Luna totally got shafted, as if her life was lame and miserable just because she didn't end up with the hero.

I happen to think that Luna's life, from what JKR told us, was rather wonderful and perfect for her. She got to travel the world doing something she was passionate about -- studying nature. For many years, she was unencumbered and free to live life in her own unconventional way -- and if anyone could enjoy being single, being able to do whatever she liked whenever she liked, it would be the free-spirited Luna.

Then, when she'd presumably had enough of being single, she got married -- and whether you were able to "buy" her relationship with Rolf or not, the fact remains that he was, at the very least, someone who shared her great love of nature, so she must have been happy with him -- and had two precious sons.

That is hardly a crappy life. On the contrary, it's exactly the kind of life many people would love to have. So when you say you expected better for her just because she didn't end up romantically with a guy who appeared in the books, I can't help being surprised, because I think you're disregarding all the wonderful things about Luna's life and implying that because she didn't get the hero, her life must have been worthless.

I'm not trying to shove my opinion down your throat here. I'm just trying to give you a different way of looking at it, because I honestly think it's sad that you think Luna didn't get what she deserved just because she didn't end up with the person you wanted her to. I can totally understand being disappointed that your ship didn't pan out -- truly I can. But it doesn't mean she got a raw deal, is all I'm saying.



Yes, she did help him, especially in coming to terms with Sirius's death in OotP. That was a beautiful scene.

But keep in mind that Luna wasn't the only character in the books to understand Harry at a time when most other people couldn't. At various times throughout the series, Ron, Dumbledore, Sirius, Lupin, Ginny, and even Hagrid all showed an understanding of Harry, or were able to get through to him, at a time when no one else could. Luna isn't special in this regard. In fact, she was merely one of many people who was, at some time in the series, able to help him when others couldn't.

She also wasn't the only one who "did so much for him." Neville, Ginny, the Weasley family in general, and especially Ron and Hermione all did an enormous amount for him, going above and beyond anything that might reasonably have been required of them. In all honesty, of those people, I think Luna was probably the one who did the least for him.

Please don't misunderstand. I am NOT trying to diminish what Luna did for Harry in the books. She was a wonderful friend, she was indeed the one who first managed to cheer him after Sirius died, and I'm so glad she was there for him. I'm just saying, while it's important not to diminish what she did, it's also important not to get carried away and OVERstate what she did for him. She was one of many people who did a lot for Harry, and one of several people who reached him when no one else could. She wasn't unique and alone in any of that. She was only one of many friends who were indispensible to Harry, and thank goodness he had her. Thank goodness he had all of them.

Long story short: Luna had a wonderful life, and I think JKR amply rewarded her for her contribution and her general awesomeness.

mary ksand

I get your point. I really do, believe me. And believe me, it's totally not like I think a character can only get rewarded by good romantic line. No. Luna had a good life, maybe I see her character one way and other people see her another way and maybe that's the reason I wanted for her something different than other readers. I know people who wanted a different destiny to some other characters, that's completely ok.

About Luna/Rolf, believe me, I wish... I mean, I wish I could be happy with it, because it would make me enjoy the way things turned out much more, but as you probably noticed I don't always go with canon or canon couples. Totally don't wanna argue about it, I think we all are allowed to have opinions.

All I tried to say is that Luna was an unique character and she could understand Harry in her own, unique Luna way The way no one else could. I mean, she was the one he could talk about Sirius death. He couldn't do it with Weasleys, Hermione or other characters. Only Luna could make him feel a little better. And in book 7 remember how she recognized Harry when he was Barney? They had an unique bond, that's all I was trying to say. I never tried to bring down any of other characters. For example, Hermione also played her unique part in Harry's destiny. Just as we where talking about Luna I decided to say a couple of words about her character.

And not to make you misunderstand me and think that "I think the romance is the only way to reward a character" I will tell you my dark secret: I wanted some characters (not gonna tel whom) to end up alone and honestly never liked the 19 years later thing, because I don't like wedding endings. So, I'm even an unromantic person

I don't overstate what Luna did for Harry or in general in the series, just I think we all love some characters better than the others. Some people (and a lot of my friends are among them) adore Snape and think he was like the most important person in the series. I disagree, big deal. HP series are wonderful in a way that all the readers have their unique opinions on characters and events in those books. Because if we all thought one way, if we all had the same opinions, if we all where agree with the ending then it wouldn't be interesting at all. It is interesting because we talk about it, agree and disagree about it

pennylane_4

Yeah, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, because I definitely don't see the relationship between Luna and Harry the same way you do. I don't think their "bond" was anything that Luna didn't have with a lot of people, nor do I think that Luna had a special, unique understanding of Harry and Harry alone just because she observed certain things about him.

The thing is, Luna is just that way. She's perceptive and insightful in her own childlike way -- and she's that way with everyone, not just Harry. She observed that Ron was funny but could be unkind; that Hermione was sometimes closed-minded and too hung up on strict logic; that Zacharias Smith must have regretted his snarky commentary on the Gryffindor/Slytherin match; that the other kids thought she, Luna, was odd. Luna's one of those people that just knows things about others, because she's perceptive in her own way.

We saw her using this perception a lot on Harry because it's his story, and everything is told from his point of view. But I think it's pretty clear from other things that Luna's unique understanding is something she has for all people, not just Harry because she supposedly has some sort of special bond with him.

And even if she did have a special bond with him, then frankly, it's a very one-sided bond, because Harry didn't do much for her at all, nor did he ever understand her much. He comes to like and respect her, yes, but at the end of the series, she still baffles him as much as ever, and he's no nearer to understanding what makes her tick than he was when he first met her. The only difference is that, instead of being put off and annoyed by her oddness, he's amused by it. But he still doesn't understand it. In all honesty, that's one of the reasons I wasn't at all upset that those two didn't end up together; I love Harry dearly, but I wanted better for Luna than to be with someone who understood her so little.

The reason I brought up what other characters had done for Harry wasn't to diminish what Luna did for him, but to put what she did for him into perspective, and to explain why I don't think Luna's contribution was quite as special and unusual as you do. You mentioned several ways in which you think Luna showed that she understands Harry better than anyone else, but I maintain that several other characters showed that they also understand Harry at least as well as Luna does. Ron showed this many times throughout the series; one example that comes to mind is in GoF when he knew that what Harry needed was a distraction in the form of Quidditch to take his mind off of Sirius. Ginny showed it several times as well; a couple of examples are in the library in OotP when she managed to get him to tell the truth about what was bothering him (and note that she got him to talk to her when he wasn't even willing to tell his two best friends in the world what was wrong), and when she instinctively foresaw and understood why he had to break things off with her in HBP and didn't throw a tantrum or give him grief about it. Hagrid showed it in PS/SS when he realized Harry was apprehensive about going to Hogwarts and made him feel better about it. Etc, etc, etc.

I know you weren't trying to belittle other characters, as you said. I'm just mentioning these other examples to, like I said earlier, put Luna's understanding of Harry into perspective. Yes, she has a couple of moments in the series when she gets him, but so do a lot of other characters, and those moments were no less special or unique or meaningful to Harry than the moments Luna had. I'm sorry, I don't expect you to agree with me, but I really don't think Luna's "bond" with Harry was that unusual or special. It was just Luna being Luna, the same way she is with everyone.

As for recognizing him at Bill and Fleur's wedding... well, with respect, I don't see why that's a big deal. Again Luna is observant; she notices things most others don't. She recognized the expression on Harry's face and put two and two together, end of story. It's a cute moment, and very Luna-ish, but it's hardly strong evidence of a special soul bond between them or something.

I know you're not trying to force your opinion on me, and I'm not trying to force mine on you either. You're free to see the relationship between them as you like. I'm just saying that I'm free to see it my way, too, and I obviously see it very differently than you do.

mary ksand

That's fine I disagree that she is this way with everyone and in book 7 it was Luna who gave Harry strength to fight (remember, with the dementors when he was ready to give up it was Luna who made him think of something good. Not anyone else, but Luna), then in book 7 on Dobby's funeral it was Luna "who said it all for him". And no way we would get same moments we had with Harry and Luna if it was Luna & Ron or Luna & Neville, for example... We would never get "You're just as sane as I am" moment with Luna & Neville, though Neville was the one who could also see theastrals. No way Luna would be "so exited" about going to Slughorns party with Neville or Ron or "beam as Harry had never seen her beam before" if someone of them asked her. Anyway, I was trying to say that I DO see Harry and Luna had a special bond and he had his special bond with Hermione and deffinitely with Ron (Harry & Ron where like the best guy friendship in modern luterature ). Yes, I see Luna & Harry connection in a different way and honestly I never thought it will ever become a problem... I honestly don't think it is right that we argue about Luna & Harry relationships here, because Harry was brought up into convo not in a way I expected. I deffinitely didn't want to argue about my ship or your ship, it wasn't about that, I only talked about a spiritual bond. We all can ship whoever we want and if you look at my shipping list you will see that I rarerly go with canon shipping Ron/Hermione is the exeption. I see that you see Harry and Luna's relationships in a different way and probably that's exactly how JKR sees it too. But it doesn't mean that my opinion has to rights to live. I mean, fans who go with canon totally got what they wanted and can be happy, let me also be happy with those little Harry & Luna moments and interpretate them the way I want to.

The point is that we all see these series differently and I don't think there is some formula for every reader about how to see HP series, romance and characters. As I said, there are people who think Snape did so much for Harry and such a hero and I massively disagree with it - so what? We all are allowed to think what we think. I only wanted to talk about characters, not shipping. I said I don't like that Luna ended up with the guy who wasn't in the books (not attacking Luna/Rolf) and I didn't want to talk about Luna and Harry relationships and didn't expect I will have to defend my ship. And I'm not gonna, because there is another thread for that. Anyway, agree to desagree, I'm completely fine with being in the minority, I think we all have our own unique vision of characters and HP series

emeraldflames

I agree with Kari about Luna. I think what makes Luna so special and unique is she is a very perceptive person of everybody. She does seem to see things a lot of people don't. It isn't unique to anyone in particular; it's just Luna being Luna.

I disagree that she wouldn't have been as happy if Ron or Neville had asked her to Slughorn's party. On the contrary, I think Luna would've been just as happy. She said herself that she'd never been asked as a friend, and if Neville or Ron had asked her, it would've been for the same reasons as Harry did, because she was their friend. In OotP, she even tells Ron that she would've loved to "not dance with him" at the Yule Ball, meaning she would've liked to go with him as a friend. Luna's character arc in her three books - aside from being a character who showed the trio maturing (Ron learning to be kinder to her, Hermione learning to be more open-minded to her beliefs and Harry learning that other people have problems too and he isn't the only one) - was a search for friends. She herself didn't change much in the course of those three books, but she did find something she was looking for: friendship. That's what her painting was all about. Harry, Ron, Hermione, Neville and Ginny had all formed a friendship with her. And it even looked like Dean Thomas was becoming her friend at the end of DH. I was personally very happy with her story and how it ended. She seemed happy.

As for Rolf/Luna, I don't have any issues with it. It was not my Luna ship of choice, but I can see why Jo went with it. The books aren't romance novels and no one in the series aside from the trio or plot related romances (like Snape/Lily) got development, because the series isn't a romance. Like I said, Luna's character arc involved her helping the trio mature and her own personal one was finding friendship. I see Luna/Rolf as Jo simply just telling the readers (who asked her) that Luna found happiness at the end.

From the very little Jo told us about him and them as a couple, it's clear he likes exploring nature and wildlife, something that Jo told us Luna went on to do. So Rolf does seem like a perfect match for her in that way. We also learned they had children later in life than the trio did, which I took to mean that Luna and Rolf spent a lot of their time after school traveling the world and looking for creatures before they settled down to have a family. Luna's a free spirit, she needs someone who will go out there and search for things with her like that. If Jo was writing a romance novel, I'm sure we would've found out a lot more about the two of them. In fact, I'd actually love a book about Luna and Rolf off exploring the wilderness, I think it'd be fascinating and quirky.

mary ksand

when Harry asked Luna to Slughorn's party she said:
- Slughorns party? With you?

I found this "with you" the main bit. Imo, no way she would say "With you?" if it was Neville or Ron. Of course she would be happy, but because of the party, not because of the fact that one of them asked her. That's my opinion.

Honestly don't get why this argument came up. I only said I wish Luna ended up with someone who was in the books and for some reason this convo ended up being an argument "why shipping Harry/Luna is wrong". I didn't mean that and I wasn't forcing my ship on you. In fact, I didn't even bring Harry in the debate.

When we talk about special bonds, I think we all have our own opinions on it based on our own life experience. Some people see the great bond between Harry and Hermione. I know people who say they are soulmates and that no one could understand Harry the way Hermione could. That's fine. Different people see different relationships differently.

alxndrjosephine

Luna is Luna.

For me, she was the character was the ante-Hermione of the series. and Jo even said the same thing.

Harry needed to be friends with someone who wasn't rational like Hermione or passionate like Ginny; Luna was the one with the flighty perspective, thus Harry wasn't offended or slighted when Luna says anything to him because he was baffled by her at the beginning. That him being baffled overwhelmed what she was saying somehow. I'm glad that in the end Harry was able to form friendships outside Ron and Hermione in Luna and Neville.

Harry needed that diversity; Ginny, Luna and Neville gave him that. They weren't Ron and Hermione and gave Harry a different view from OoTP onwards, which as a character Harry badly needed at that point of the story.

As for development, I think Luna - in terms of how Harry viewed her in the books, given how he described his interactions and observations of her in Deathly Hallows - didn't really develop much as a character; she was the same dreamy, bemusing character as she was when she was introduced in OoTP, only by the end of Deathly Hallows she had friends, and she knows this.

That was the main development of Luna's character: she found friends, and appreciated what friendship is about if her painting was anything to go by.

She was unapologetic for who she was and really didn't mind not having friends before Ginny and the rest. That made me so happy when I read about the painting she made on her room. It was Jo's way of making the readers see how Luna was able to understand that she did have friends.

And that was her story. Some people at that age were like Luna, with difficulty forming friendships because they're different than most people - Jo, in her own way, made people realize that regardless how different you may seem to the rest of the world, you will in time find people who will be able to go past the quirkiness and value you as their true friend.

Harry, Ron and Hermione were okay being with Neville and Ginny because they've known them for the longest time, but the inclusion of Luna in that circle made readers see that the trio also had qualms and biases about being friends with others who aren't molded from the same clay; all three had the same demeaning reaction to Luna, Hermione being the most verbal. But in the end, they matured and understood that despite who Luna was, she was also a friend they could depend on.

Whilst Luna was able to help Harry, she wasn't the only one who did. All five (Ron, Hermione, Ginny, Luna and Neville) were able to do so. They were all given moments to make reader see that they all have something in common with Harry, and that's why they were his closest friends.

emeraldflames

I still don't really agree. I still see it as Luna being happy she was going with a friend. "With you" is Luna highlighting the fact that she's being asked to go with somebody to a party (and not alone) - something that's probably never happened to her before. There's nothing in the books that says she wouldn't have been as happy with Neville or Ron either. In fact, I think Luna would've been just as thrilled if Ginny or Hermione had asked her too. Luna's happiness was because someone had asked her on their own merit because they liked her as a friend. I would've been happy too, if I was Luna.

I have no issues if you ship Harry/Luna. Go on shipping 'em. I ship Neville/Luna and that's not canon either. But my point and I think Kari's point, was that Luna's role in the series was not romance oriented, so that's why there wasn't a focus on who she got with. Luna's character arc was something different. All Rolf/Luna was was Jo telling her readers that Luna was happy. Doesn't mean you can't ship something different, but that's just not the story Jo had in mind for Luna's character.

mary ksand

I see that and I'm ok with that. Believe me, I respect your opinion. Just when I'm saying that Luna and Harry had a special bound it doesn't mean I bring down other characters. Or it doesn't mean I disrespect Joanne Rowling's undenyable right to tell her story the way she wants. I love her story. But as about every story, every book or movie there are things I like and things I dislike. And also JKR respects her readers and likes that they have different opinions. When Dan Radcliffe voiced his non-canon opinion about Harry and Luna relationships (not once) she wasn't against that at all. She was also ok when some readers where negative about Snape/Lily story line. She's telling the story, but opinions can differ so lets just agree to disagree.

emeraldflames

JKR would never hound anyone for liking or disliking something about her story, as long as they were respectful, and no one here is saying anything of the sort, I don't think. All we're doing is expressing why we think Jo went the way she did with her characters.

Evanna Lynch herself said she was happy with Luna's character and where she ended up and if she's happy with Luna, then I'm pretty happy too.

L i N d $ @ y

I think JKR will respect the fans if we all agree to disagree. And that is something that I will agree with everyone here. We have our varying opinions about Luna and her relationships - I respect and understand everyone's opinions here. It would be a boring world if we all agree on the same things anyway. There is no right or wrong here, I think, otherwise HP is one big math equation.

mary ksand

I couldn't say it better! ITA

pennylane_4

I know! I love that Evanna's so happy about how her character and everything else in the books turned out. She's such a fangirl like us. *pets her*