Harry Potter - HP Debate/Discussion #12 - The Marauder's Map

Ben · 04-27-2004, 12:43 AM

How does it work? What makes certain people show up for someone and not for others?

Discussion here...

Check out the Past Threads (you may post on these still, if they haven't been pruned! Mmm prunes!):
HP Debate / Discussion Thread #1 - House Elves, opressed slaves or willing workers?
HP Debate / Discussion Thread #2 - Turning back time
HP Debate/Discussion Thread #3: Strengths and Weaknesses
Harry Potter: HP Debate/Discussion Thread #4: Will Ron Turn On Harry?
Harry Potter: HP Debate/Discussion Thread #5: Ghosts and the Afterlife
HP Debate/Discussion Thread #6: What would the HP characters ask Santa for Christmas?
HP Debate/Discussion Thread #7: How does magic work anyway?
HP Debate/Discussi on Thread #8: Animagus: Think Crookshanks is one? And Trevor?
HP Debate/Discussi on HP Debate/Discussion Thread #9: OotP Passage: Weak vs Strong against YKW
HP Debate/Discussion #10 - Live chat with JKR
HP Debate/Discussion #11 - Wandless Magic

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LadyOfLorien · 04-27-2004, 02:09 AM

I didn't think there was anyone who didn't ever show up on the MM-- isn't that what they say- The Marauder's Map never lies...

I think you have to be within a certain range on the Hogwarts grounds though...so if someone is maybe outside the main threshold (where the carriages arrive at start of year) The Forbidden Forrest, Hogsmeade, etc, they don't show up, because they are "Out of bounds"

Also think about how many many little dots of people are on this tiny little map- so unless looking for someone specific, or looking at a specific part of the castle- I'd think it would be quite easy not to notice certain people......

Ben · 04-27-2004, 02:39 AM

I was always under the impression that some people don't show up because thay don't want too. Almost like they know the map exists and can make themselves remain hidden from it.

LadyOfLorien · 04-27-2004, 02:48 AM

Maybe I missed that, where in the books did you get that from?

If thats true I'd think Peter would have "willed" himself not to appear.....

Ben · 04-27-2004, 02:52 AM

I'm not sure where it is, I'd have to read all the books to find out! It's a vague memory. I might have made it up or got it from some fic.

Because Mrs. Norris shows up on it right? So surely Peter should have as well? Or maybe the Marauders just don't show up themselves?

Though didn't Sirius appear on it?

LadyOfLorien · 04-27-2004, 03:13 AM

Peter does appear- Thats how Lupin knows to go to the Shreiking Shack at the end of PoA (ch 18), and yes Sirius appears at that same time. So the Marauders do appear on it.

But I'm not saying people don't sometimes, I just don't remember reading it. But there have been quite a few things I missed in the books until pointed out so....

**Gabriela** · 04-27-2004, 03:15 AM

It seems like there are people that don't show up on the map...liek in PoA - Harry never saw Peter on the map or Sirius, even though they were both on the grounds at that time. And when Lupin was watching the Marauder's Map that night when Sirius and Peter were revealed - He never said anything about the second Harry and Hermione being there. Does that make sense? Because there would have been two Harry's and two Hermione's since they used the time turner...
Also, when Snape looked at the map, shouldn't he have seen Peter Pettigrew's name on it as well? Lupin saw it on there.
I've heard a couple differnet theories..one is that the people have to be moving for it to show them (I think this was thought of because when the map is described in the books, the dots are always described as moving..or at least that's what the explanation was)
Another theory I've heard is that it only shows people on the map who are relevant to the person looking at it. Meaning that Snape wouldn't have seen pettigrew b/c he has/had almost no relevance in Snape's life, where as Peter would have a lot of importance/relevance in Lupin's life.

LadyOfLorien · 04-27-2004, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gabriela:
It seems like there are people that don't show up on the map...liek in PoA - Harry never saw Peter on the map or Sirius, even though they were both on the grounds at that time.

Well- Harry the first few times he used the map, wouldn't have known who Peter was, and Sirius those times was in the Shreiking Shack- which I think is out of bounds- There is a long passge between the Willow and the shack, and I always thought once it was off Hogwarts , it was off the map.......

Quote:

Originally posted by Gabriela:
And when Lupin was watching the Marauder's Map that night when Sirius and Peter were revealed - He never said anything about the second Harry and Hermione being there. Does that make sense? Because there would have been two Harry's and two Hermione's since they used the time turner...

I guess I just figure time travel is a bit beyond the map- I mean these guys made it at Hogwarts- at that level- showing time travelers was probably a bit beyond capability.....

Quote:

Originally posted by Gabriela:
Also, when Snape looked at the map, shouldn't he have seen Peter Pettigrew's name on it as well?

PoA Ch19, pg 358
"I've just been to your office Lupin. You forgot to take your Potion tonight, so I took a gobletful along. And very lucky I did......lucky for me, I mean. Lying on your desk was a certain map. One glance at it told me all I needed to know. I saw you running along this passageway and out of sight."

So the passage does "fall off " the MM at some point before the shreiking shack- confirming first point above. Also Snape only saw Lupin (again a Maruader) because Peter, Sirius, trio, were already to the Shreking Shack- and off the map.

Quote:

Originally posted by Gabriela:
I've heard a couple differnet theories..one is that the people have to be moving for it to show them (I think this was thought of because when the map is described in the books, the dots are always described as moving..or at least that's what the explanation was)
Another theory I've heard is that it only shows people on the map who are relevant to the person looking at it. Meaning that Snape wouldn't have seen pettigrew b/c he has/had almost no relevance in Snape's life, where as Peter would have a lot of importance/relevance in Lupin's life.

could be true, but there's also some evidence that everyone does show up- but I could be wrong..... I often am [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Crossbow · 04-27-2004, 11:08 AM

I was thinking, it must be an awfully big map to show EVERYONE in Hogwarts. Let's see ... there are 5 boys in Harry's year in Griffindor. For the sake of estimating, let's say there are 5 girls and 5 boys for every year in every house. That's ... 280 students. That's a lot of names. Also, the map appears to show all the levels of the castle. It at least shows the main level, the dungeon level, and the secret passages.

My guess about Peter is that his names was always surrounded by so many others, no one noticed it.

**Gabriela** · 04-28-2004, 08:36 AM

I think JKR said in some interview that there are 1000 students at hogwarts, which, granted, doesn't seem right...
I've always wondered what it looks like and stuff. I dont' know if you guys have seen the screencaps of harry holding it in the third movie, but it really doesn't look like the way I pictured it, or the way it's drawn in the book...but in the book it looks way to small for it to hold everything it needs to.
here's a pic of it drawn in the book:

and I believe this is a pic of harry using it in one of the trailers: (from www.mugglenet.com)

[ 04-28-2004: Message edited Gabriela ]

Crossbow · 04-28-2004, 02:56 PM

100? That can't be right. I went to an 8-years school with 200 students, and even at 200 you not only know everyone's name, but what their parents do and what pets they have and probably what they had for breakfast. The trio could never in a million years ever do anything secret at a school with only 100!

**Gabriela** · 04-28-2004, 10:13 PM

No..it's 1000 students that JKR said attend Hogwarts.
granted, that still doesn't seem right..I mean...10 students per house per year..5 girls/5 boys..
40 total for all the houses combined for one year
*7 years
That's only 280 students..

Ben · 04-29-2004, 07:27 PM

I think that perhaps the map can change what part of Hogwarts it is showing. Maybe like zoom in a stuff?

Otherwise it could just show what people are concerned with at the time. Like Snape was looking for Lupin and saw him on the map because he wanted to know where he was. Though that doesn't fit with it all.

I'd say there a way more students in each year. We just don't hear much about them I'd say. That surely seems more feasible?

Crossbow · 04-30-2004, 09:16 AM

Oh, 1000. [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img] That would make a lot more sense. But if that's the case, then there must be far fewer Gryffindor boys in Harry's year than there are in the other houses/classes.

The way it's described, I had the impression that you just saw a lot of little dots moving around unless you looked closely at one. Lupin was probably looking to see what those 4 dots leaving Hogwarts were doing, when he saw Peter's name.

EllsBells · 04-30-2004, 01:17 PM

Hmmm.. well I think the Map has many hidden techniques like perhpas it shows you what it thinks you need to know or only people you are familiar with. Also it obviously stops on school grounds since when they entered Hogsmeade they "fell off the map".

Oh and as for there being 1000 pupuils at Hogwarts,feesable IMO but perhaps a little high. I think there are around 5 dorms per house,, that means on average 35 pupils per house in a year. That's 140 for each year group, times that by seven is something like 980. That's if my Maths is good.

Ell xxx